I Just Know It's BS ... But I Have't Tried It Yet


Have you ever noticed how quickly naysayers jump on "unconventional" products they have never tried, letting us know they are worthless -- shamelessly admitting they have no direct experience with the item they are putting down? For example, anything with the word quantum in the name seems to set some people off. Do you have your favorite examples of this phenomenon? What do you make of this irrational approach to high end audio that is often suffixed by LOL and exclamation points for emphasis?
sabai

Showing 11 responses by mapman

High end audio red flag # 1 is when questioned about some "unconventional" or poorly understood product, the guy on the bandwagon takes offense or becomes a bully to defer questions. Just Bolieve!!!

Sure thing. It will be on his time and wallet I assume?

Seems to me anyone sincere in touting a product's value that really believes in it is prepared to field any question, even inconvenient ones.

ALso it irks me that we are told we should buy said product because "it sounds so damn good". News flash: this is high end audio....it is ALL suppsoed to sound really good.

THe real question is what is the unique value case by case. THis requires open discussion to determine or not. If that cannot occur then best to just move on the next great product out there.
SAbai, I am surprised that you have the opinion expressed.

I hear Machina Dynamica is having a sale. You can catch up on all those "unconventional" products that I seem to recall you have questioned in the past now.
We each have no choice but to trust our ears (using the tools we are given) but there is no categorical reason why anyone should trust the "ears" of others necessarily. Ears cannot talk. People do. :^)

OF course trust can be earned over time, but it is not owed.
"Trust Your Own Ears" is sound advice, but a highly flawed and often unreliable process nonetheless. The BS'ers know that very well, but they will never say it.
"One could wish that a few folks would finally learn to play nice in the sand box."

There is a difference between innocent children playing in a sandbox and the real world, unfortunately. Its just the way it is.

SETs are not a good example of "unconventional" technology in my opinion. One may prefer SETs or not. Its a judgement call. SET technology and its advantages and disadvantages is well understood by many. One can make a well educated decision about it. As such one can argue that it is not unconventional. One merely needs to read up to understand the "conventions" that apply and how different from others.

Unconventional to me implies not well understood in general. It's semantics though. I suppose Walsh driver principles that I am a fan of would be considered unconventional in that such a small minority of products operate that way and the principles are not well understood by many. Bottom line is if a well informed decision can be made or not.
"On rare occasions, I saw chemical reactions proceed in ways that seemed to make absolutely no sense based on the laws of chemistry and physics."

I see things in my companies tech labs all the time that make little sense. THey do not go "to production" as actual products or solutions until they do. To do anything otherwise would negatively affect the business and its customers.

I'd bet no products based on those unclear chemical reactions were sold either until better understood.

THe stakes in audio are lesser I suppose, so not quite the same. What's the worse that can happen? Someone ends up unhappy and feeling cheated I suppose. OR not. So its a different game there for sure. It's largely about what people think or feel which is totally subjective. The good thing about a placebo is the worst thing that can happen to you is ..... nothing. Not much downside other than money spent. Products are marketed based on this principle all the time. Nothing so special about home audio there.
Trust has a lot to do with it.

I don't trust anyone who solely pitches pros and NEVER addresses cons. All products have both. If depicted otherwise, a big red flag should go up.

I don't mind "fanboys" ie people who just like certain things for whatever reasons.

However, many who post on Agon are not merely fan boys and have products to sell and this site does nothing to identify user types. So motivation behind claims often becomes very murky, but less so once one knows who they are dealing with.

Its easy to recommend or like a product when one gets to audition or even own it for a discount or perhaps for nothing. In a case like that, there is little skin in the game as would be the case for the average perspective buyer. Its all useful things to just keep in mind to help sort through things. The facts are NOT always apparent. So some degree of skepticism here specifically is a wise thing IMHO.
Our ears hear and deliver the info but its our minds that do comparisons.

So trusting ears alone for comparisons will not work.

This is a fact and should not be hard to accept.

Not only will it not work, but its not even possible to compare two things with ears only.
I like it when people who talk about tweaks I do not understand demonstrate knowledge of related things I know more about as well. That gives them more credibility with me in terms of understanding the big picture at least.

When people talk about a tweak alone, if I do not understand it, then there is no basis to give any benefit of doubt.

Its all about credibility pretty much for me. There has to be something you can sink your teeth into initially to help justify spending ones time or money.

THat does not mean there may not be something to whatever trick of the day is being discussed, only that there is nothing concrete there for me that I can sink my teeth into. Others might feel differently. If so, hopefully they would shre their unique knowledge and help others like me learn.
It cracks me up when anything around here is pitched purely on how good it sounds. Breaking news: this is high end audio. It's all supposed to sound anywhere from very good to fantastic. But there is always the pitch for some new product that ups the ante. So do, I m certain. But I do not live in a laboratory and like to spend my time actually listening to my music that already sounds great to me, so my bandwidth is limited, so cut me a break and stop with the "you can't know until you hear it"'s. Duh! Of course I can't. Just give me a good reason to try at a price I might afford though and I'll add to my bucket list. :-)