I just don't get PC Audio

I’m going to go with the notion that some tongue in cheek thoughts were jotted down here to generate a lengthy controversy.

Cabling cost? Now that’s funny. Been pricing CAT 5 & USB cables lately? For less than a tank full of gas, you could wire up your whole house and maybe your neighbor’s too.

$4K for a decent DAC? I suppose that depends on one’s idea of decent.

A preference to pick out and choose a CD or album does have it’s fanciful, and intriguing moments for some though. Loitering aobut the wall unit thumbing through one after another, trying to decide which one to enjoy… yes… yes… I can see how much fun that could be!

Then of course there’s that incumbent return trip to re-file it away, safe and sound once again.

Yes sir! Those were the days! Man oh, man, how glad I am they are gone now! Perhaps if I were into filing, or clerical work while at home during one of my fav past times… well, then, maybe.

Somehow I perceive a “purist” tennat here, a traditionalist approach to the enjoyment and appreciatation of music for the sake of music… sort of like the way a traditional oriental tea is done.

Wow. It’s near a spiritual experience!

The charm of distance is lost to us these days as well. So hang in there and keep the faith!

…or… move along with the times.

Ease of access does not detract from my appreciation of an artists efforts, nor does it conflict with my enjoyment of the end product.

For isn’t that truly the ticket here? The end result? What does it really matter how the music comes to me… from vinyl? … from one’s and zeros? Tape?

The end product is the key for me… not it’s form, fashion, or tradition…. And in fact one can have both their cake and eat it too if one chooses to do so, now, can’t they?

Speaking of costs… what does one of those Esoteric CDPs go for new these days??

…and it’s power cable?

…and it’s interconnects?

…and it’s cost apportionment for the shelf space on the rack?

… what about those isolation footers too?

…and it’s going to be replaced with better technology when? Next fall or sooner?

I think we might be able to discount your ideas on startup costs. Dependingh upon what your time is worth, for that is the “Traditional woe” of the magnetic media club.

Most if not all of the software you will need is free and there are lots to choose from so the OS platform being used isn’t to much of an issue.

Adding a USB 500 Gig HD costs about 150.00. Throwing in the “back up” notion isn’t fair either as I doubt you will back up the discs you have on hand already, but lets say that is valid… To be fair here,

So, you will need to copy and burn ALL of your cd library to be on the same page as the bennies of the PC now crowd.

Being the duplication process usually isn’t done of course, were you into a PC based musical affair of sorts, you would have been even better off! As all the music would then be on a HD and a dupe would also be available in the event of one of those pesky closet fires breaking out when you least expect it.

Another plus is the drives are getting less expensive, and that’s good because I’ve gone through a few over the last five or six years. So get a couple nice CDR – RW burners from Plextor, Sony, NEC, etc, and add another $100.00.

Now we’ve got a ripping and burning, software laden PC with one TB of space.. hope you’ve a very large collection as I’ve under 800 CD’s in my music closet, and still have room on my 500 Gig USB HD, for lots more. BTW all of the musical files are done in a lossless codec in my house.

Wait a mo… Did I hear someone say,No one knows just how long will those hard drives keep spinning?

I’ve one machine which I got in August of 2001…. And it’s still spinning! Lately, it’s spinning around the clock! 24/7. Out of a dozen or better, I’ve lost one hard drive in seven years due to some physical interior failure of the drive itself, and I lost one to lightening.

So far the tab is about $400.00 for the CD burners, and USB hard drives which are no brainers to use, and another $0.15 per duped CD… for say 1000 CD’s that’s another $150, and we’re at $550.00.

No DAC on hand? Well that’s not needed either really, you can go with just a sound card. You can also make it USB to keep some of the nastiness from the PC out of the process altogether. Now add $300 for it and it’ll be about as good as they come. Less for less, of course… more for more and sure… less for less.

… that’s $850.00, and not all at once, so far.

$850.00 won’t pay for very good cabling on many CDPs around here.

Want to go with a DAC instead? Don’t want to come out of a sound card either… then it’s USB for you. USB DAC’s do have a widely priced entry fee. I’ve seen some from $300! Again, here, more does usually provide more this, that, and the other thing (s), but let’s not skimp here too much, and pick a popular one with lot’s of POSITIVE press, say the Benchmark DAC1 w/USB, or perhaps the Apogee. New? $1K +/-. Save some with a preowned model? Then about $750 +/- or so.

Go all in on a Wavelength or Bel Canto, or other top flight unit… remember, musical confuser or stereo analog system…. Get in where you fit in and spend as much or as little as you wish!

There is only one caveat…. If you are waiting for the level of performance to stop evolving… you’ll be waiting a very, very, long time…. For it won’t stop. It will continue to morph into one form or another, and technology will as well. So waiting for the just right spot to enter the fray will prevent you from ever being a entrant.

But I digress….

We’re almost ready and we are up to $1600.00 +/-, and all is brand new stuff.

Some folks stop right about here, personally, I did too.

For a while. That’s another plus about the musical confuser path… it’s not an all at once sort of affair. Add this or that, stop for a while… then later on, go get some more… etc. As you wish. It’s not an all in at one time event like in a CDP purchase.

In fact as was said, there are sufficient peripherals available today that allow whole house audio without anything more than a single database/server and wireless network.

Moving on… We just gotta have remote control, right? I’ve seen some CD player makers, and some other’s who charge $500 for a remote control!!

Ask BAT what they are getting for a remote now.

It just so happens that I’ve also seen laptops go for the same amount, brand new!

Try making phone calls, checking emails, carrying your work home, taking notes, scheduling, buying tickets for the next concert you want to attend, make a person to person call where you can actually see your family or friends, and of course there’s the awfully popular viewing of DVDs during those long trips,

So let’s not skimp once again, and go off for a 17 inch wide screen laptop with DVD burner, 200 Gig HD, wireless connectiomn, dual monitor support, 3 gigs of RAM, a dual core processor, and built in camera, and the in flight movie will be one we actually want to see!

That price tag is $750.00, for a Toshiba L350, brand new.

Oops… forgot the USB cable to the DAC from the laptop, and a wireless router too! Routers are not much and $150.00 will surely work there… The USB cable? I spent $6 for a fifteen footer at Wally Mart. It works fine.

There’s the Squeeze box sector too, which takes the notebook out of the equation.

Lastly, still pursuing the pc path to organized musical bliss, for $70 US dollars or so, you can avoid any issues with Windows sound mixer and buy a driver which is very very, good. If you get a Vista loaded notebook, the driver is not an absolute.

As I understand it Mac’s don’t have that issue but are usually more costly laptops than their PC cousins.
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So looking back I’m seeing around $2650.00 for a simple one off PC system, and along the way we’ve made dupes of the entire CD library which we will keep in a separate place from the originals, right?

Now we’ve attained remarkably greater ease of use, an immense variety of music in an “on demand” setting, and we’ve likely included video file playback, and we top it off by now possessing a remote control that simply out runs any CD player’s remote ever made.

Later on, IF the upgrade bug drops down the back of your shirt (which we’ve not had to give away yet), another DAC, or a server can be added on or in. We’re keeping up with technology too via usually free firmware & software updates too.

The backing up process is also done automatically once setup, and we don’t have to worry about a friend or relative not returning a borrowed album, or scratching one up, and the hidden big bonus here is we can now sell on Audiogone the ‘once’ played CD collection we have exact copies of for the remarkably generous price of $5 a pop!

So the overall costs of “one’s and zeero’s” tunes? Might even add to your bank account as 1000 CDs at $5 per is uh, more than the costs of a musical confuser system.

The profits even allow for a treadmill to keep off those excess pounds from all the sitting you’ll be doing as you won’t be getting up and down every 40 min or so to swap out another disc or album!

Gee… getting fit too? What’s the price tag on that?

…and what’ is it worth to have every track of your collection at your fingertips?

Now that’s priceless for me!

Either way, though, it’s about having fun. I do think HDD one way or another, is the deal, and cheaper too in the end.

Personally, I’m waiting for hologram TV & movies in house, with the audio info being played in my head, negating the need for loudspeakers altogether! Marble sized media which contain significantly higher resolution info than one’s imagination can conceive…. And they won’t wear out , scratch, or dissolve… but in the mean time, I’m going to go with what’s available as it’s extremely good right now.

I do wish you the best, which ever way you proceed.

Arbuckle

RE "The point of my post is, am I the only one here who thinks hard drive systems have serious drawbacks that should prohibit an educated buyer not to jump in yet??"

One aspect of the truly intelligent or well educated is to consider alternatives in life. For me to discount or dismiss another plan or concept that is apparently alien to my own, which may yeild as good if not better results, is sheer ignorance.... and I've been quite ignorant in my life now and then, trust me on that one. I called it "being conservative" back then.... it seemed to help.

Often my plans for a system improvement just don't go according to plan. The end product is usually as good if not better than the predetermined one... so far.

Obviously here, given the entry fee to Esoteric players, and their upscale counterparts, cost isn’t really the prime consideration is it?

I don't think it is really.

RE Benchmark
I mentioned that DAC purely as a thoughtful USB option. There are numerous others so I also added the Apogee whose price point and build is commensurate with the Bench unit. The list grows readily... and routinely. Both serve as examples only to prove out one entrance fee ideal.

One has to admit at least this notion... CD players are all constantly on the move to more analog like - natural sound. CDPs however have built in constraints. The very nature of their designs possess built in obsolescence. Many are as well proprietary in their repairs or maintenance, and thus are expensive to keep running. However, if one can afford a Rolls, these last points are immaterial to them I should think. If ya can afford a $500K car... $2500 for scheduled visit to the dealership won't be a bother at all.

On the other side of the coin, computers, servers, software, and so forth are near plug and play these days but in the event of a failure have an abundant set of local and very affordable resources to remedy such occasions…. And local is always better!

Analog playback itself, unless done pretty well via system matching and so forth may not equal digital quality playback as it stands today. Analog has simply run it's course and provides merely variations on an older theme. I won’t discount it as outdated or worthless, not at all, merely it’s fast losing it’s hold as the pinnacle of audio reproduction.

Were I able to employ vinyl here I likely would... and I'd keep it around too... though that wouldn't prevent me from entering another realm of audio recreation.

I know what might, however... My Contempt prior to investigation, or perhaps, my unwillingness to change, and quite possibly my pride… or my own fears. All of these principles will perpetuate my own imprisonment to the old, rather than the new.

The keys to lock or unlock those doors are in my possession though.

If I had just laid out a ton for a CD player I might well be quite dissmissive of some alternative path to musical enjoyment, and might also need to support that ideal, by some rationalization or justification of my present path to make my previous judgement valid... and save some face in the meanwhile.

In the light of the overwhelming positive experiences being posted here and elsewhere online, for someone to not entertain the idea that another way can yield likewise results is pure folly. it's akin to the idea set that wires/cabling don't make a difference! Ever think of that? Or that power conditioners are a waste of money? Isolation is pure snake oil?

I held onto all the aforementioned ideas for some time, and it’s price was costly in both time, and money.

There are numerous paths to audio bliss... solid state, hollow state... flea powered amps... all separtes… integrated units… LCD… Plasma… projectors…. analog... digital... and now there is server oriented pure digital domain.

You are in a superior position just now, IMO. AS you can take your time entering & investigating this new lesser expensive, and non time sensitive aspect... and personally, I know of a few major makers of digital converters which have some remarkable devices due to be released in the near future at attractive price points which will further escalate the current level of performance in the DAC end of things. I'm certainly looking forward to these releases myself though the knowledge of them did not prevent me from opting for the DAC I own now. Nor does it make me want to sell my CD player egven though the reproduction level equals and surpasses it in a few ways.

At some point…regardless the concept or fashion we choose to undertake a systems construct, we have to take the plunge somewhere… sometime… with some thing. The only wrong of it at all is to NOT involve ourselves. That is the only true loss we might endure… for in that state we gain no experience, or knowledge, and we will perpetually remain locked in our own little world. This too, has been one of my own flaws, for I do not usually embrace ‘different’ very well. Stay the course… keep to what is proven, or that which I ‘think’ to be the best… and wait… and wait… and wait.

Gee whiz… it took me a few years to consent to the idea not all CD players sounded the same! Or that more money needed to be spent to gain greater results!

The analog products of just one decade ago have now been made far superior by many accounts. Amplifier technology improves if by no other means than the sum of the parts being used within it. Arguably even cable are improving.

Should I now await for still greater accomplishments to arrive before I make a choice?

Why? For at that moment… still more advances are yet to come… so let’s wait some more… and so on. Waiting is not a good idea in the end. IMO

Looking back now at my own experiences, I sure wish I had been more open to other ideas, sooner. It would have saved me much time, money, and frustration.

But the steadfast reasoning that this is too costly an event is ludicrous. The learning curve can be daunting, and initially there is an expense of time, but the rewards thereafter are great indeed.