Digits over here, digits over there, digits everywhere, and all of those digits have to go through a "Digital to Ana log converter" in order to be intelligible; your CD player, everything on your computer operates on digits, do you have any video equipment?
You are living in a world of digits; no, your "analog" does not contain digits, but some of your records were digits before they became "analog"; which just goes to show digits are inescapable. Did you know that electrical impulses which shoot down a wire causing a magnetic field in a speaker to pump in and out travel at the speed of light, not the speed of sound; plus they go through all kinds of stuff before you hear one single solitary note.
Do you question all of this when you're listening to music? Without a doubt, I assume all that exquisite equipment makes beautiful music, but do you ever stop and wonder how it all works?
Ain't life fun.
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Let me try this one Mo time; there is absolutely no audio internally in the computer; it's all digits. In this case, the digits are stored on an external hard drive; no matter how many times you retrieve these digits, you will get precisely the same thing every time, it will be precisely what you put in. Not until it goes through the DAC will it become "ana log" again When you have used the very best "interface" available (that I know of) to transfer very high end audio into computer digits, and stored this information on an external hard drive in the "WAV" format, which is the largest (best according to me); and you want to listen to this "very high end audio" you will simply request it, and you will hear it through your very high end DAC, that feeds your very high end preamp; you get the picture; this will get you the precise duplication of no computer in the mix at all. (I like to listen without getting up to turnover records, plus I have had fits of clumsiness) If you change cartridge, phono, or even tone arm wire, you will distinctly be able to hear that upgrade, but if you want to enjoy the upgrade, you will have to repeat this process of down loading to external hard drive. That is no bigger deal than playing the record, which you will do anyway. This is the best computer interface I know of, it was given 5 stars; that's rare for any piece of equipment. It functions as an AD converter on the way in, and a DAC on the way out, plus it has other desirable features. https://www.amazon.com/RME-ADI-2-Pro-4-out-Converter/dp/B01MTWM896/ref=pd_sbs_267_2?_encoding=UTF8&a.... Recently I made some upgrades, and I'm presently enjoying them. I know this was a complete waste, but sometimes that's what I do. |
wqq, you got the age and educational level right, but I just flat out do not believe you in regard to all those computer experts being into records.
I rely heavily on people I consult who have degrees in computer science, and none of them or their friends own one single solitary record; records are stupid, unless you already owned a ton of the things before CD. That's the only reason I got into high end analog, and I don't regret it because a whole new world has opened up; however, I think I read where Michael Fremer said this was possible with a Dual Turntable, and there is no way under the Sun this could be accomplished with the "mid fi" crap we were using that was considered to be good. If it had, we would not have gone to CD's.
Other geezer friends of mine, sold their records and never looked back. The high end analog equipment required for records to exceed CD is very expensive, plus the fact that some CD's are better than some records.
Initially, the CD versus records thing was valid, but the quality of new digital hardware has altered this; especially from an economic point of view.
Considering the exorbitant cost of cartridges, turntables, tone arms, and phono amps; I should hope that records sound better; not to mention the exorbitant cost of the records themselves.
My posts have been directed at any one who wishes to enjoy the benefits of everything they paid for, without handling those precious very expensive records but one time; twice if you include washing them; but apparently there are those who would rather play with records than listen to music.
Without a doubt, you will need a computer expert to accomplish this feat of down loading perfectly to your external hard drive ( the computer speaks French, and "Ana log" is English; therefore, you will need a very good "interface" or interpreter to talk to your PC, which also means the services of someone who knows how to accomplish this feat; that goes for in and out to a high quality DAC)
I became accustomed to reel before PC, which required a lot of blank tape that is no longer available, but the PC does not require blank tape, which makes it much better than a reel to reel.
Many "audiophiles" on this very same forum have verified and validated what I have stated in regard to getting out of the PC precisely what you put in.
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I spent years of reading, listening to frequency responses on test records, discovering which was the best cartridge for me before I settled down to music; now I can listen to music on the best set up of my life.
If I wanted to diddle around and play with something, I would have gone into model trains.
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I should know by now that this debate is not about audio, but religion; God forbid that I should ever go to the Middle East, because I'll get beheaded for sure; I can't help taking long looks at beautiful women, veils or no veils.
When it comes to religion, I'm agnostic, but this is like "The Hatfields & The McCoys Feud"; you got to be on one side or the other. I'm on the side of "high end audio", and that's a fact.
Now if the best cartridge someone ever heard was ceramic on a cheap record player, and they said records ain't worth squat, that would be valid; that's what I'm hearing with this "digitalis"; but I've never been much of a preacher, I always drank too much. Never the less, it's all in the "set up".
I'll bet the "Ana Logers" pull up a chair at record level and watch the stylus squiggle in the grooves.
(all in fun)
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I should know by now that this debate is not about audio, but religion; God forbid that I should ever go to the Middle East, because I'll get beheaded for sure; I can't help taking long looks at beautiful women, veils or no veils.
When it comes to religion, I'm agnostic, but this is like "The Hatfields & The McCoys Feud"; you got to be on one side or the other. I'm on the side of "high end audio", and that's a fact.
Now if the best cartridge someone ever heard was ceramic on a cheap record player, and they said records ain't worth squat, that would be valid; that's what I'm hearing with this "digitalis"; but I've never been much of a preacher, I always drank too much. Never the less, it's all in the "set up".
I'll bet the "Ana Logers" pull up a chair at record level and watch the stylus squiggle in the grooves.
(all in fun)
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When comparing reel playback to PC playback, 2 track reel is better, but that's at great expense when you consider the high price of blank tape; unless you're rich, the point is moot.
This PC, analog controversy is not what it's made out to be; it's about "geezers" (those who own high end analog) who want to learn new tricks, and those who don't.
Those who can hear something they have identified as "the stair step effect", but can't tell that a motion picture is no more than a bunch of still frames, or that transistors don't just stay on, but are going on and off constantly, are highly suspect.
Old dogs don't want to learn new tricks, even when this trick is like getting a high end reel tape deck for very little, that comes with free tape.
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Boxer, before computer, I used reel to reel tape decks; those were the only machines I really fell in love with. When they were popular, I would spend hours at the stereo store admiring the big expensive decks I couldn't afford.
Since that time, which was many years ago, I have owned Akai, Teac, Otari, and Technics; needless to say, I became accustomed to recording my records. The availability of high quality blank tape threw a wrench into that process.
I'm an "audiophile", not a PC expert, I don't understand the process either; I only know that it works, and it works precisely as I have stated that it works when you have the proper hardware.
Fortunately, it's not as expensive as straight up audio, and if you purchase the hardware, which comes with some instructions, I believe you can make it happen.
( In all honesty, I have a computer "guru", we call them "geeks", who assists me; I only know what audiophiles know; I told him I wanted the output to sound precisely like the input, he told me what to buy, and we made it happen)
From what I've read, I believe it's possible to put an "audiophile" PC system together without a "geek".
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Boxer and 2 channel, the more you handle your records, the more you are likely to cause a scratch. I was washing my records, got distracted and caused a scratch.
Now I take a new record out of the cover, record it, and I can listen for 1000 times without ever touching the record again; I like that.
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Crazyeddy, I have never met a computer expert who owned a single record, or a record player. Nor have I communicated with an "audiophile" who knows much about computers; myself included.
My computer "guru" has a degree in computer science, and with his knowledge I'm able to make astounding accomplishments, such as playback that is indistinguishable from just playing a record straight out.
There is no way I would spend the time, money, and effort required for what I have done, just to archive some records.
As I explained in a previous post, I had to repeat this process of down loading my collection into an external hard drive, in order to enjoy a cartridge upgrade, plus a new phono with NOS Telefunken tubes.
Now I can appreciate, or should I say "savor" all of the nuances my labors have brought about, without leaving my listening chair to even turn over one single solitary record. This enables me to get into the depths of the listening experience.
I don't have any secrets; the information for one of the ways for you to duplicate my experience is on this thread.
Enjoy the music.
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As you know, the better equipment you have, and the more attention you pay to detail, the better the audio. A top notch interface is essential to transferring analog to digital, your computer must like what you're feeding it, or it will not digest it properly https://www.amazon.com/RME-ADI-2-Pro-4-out-Converter/dp/B01MTWM896/ref=pd_sbs_267_2?_encoding=UTF8&a...I also use an Audio Blaster sound card, plus an external hard drive, and WAV as opposed to FLAC; that's why there is "0" difference between playing a record, and listening to the playback from my hard drive; I can even distinguish the minute differences between cartridges; which is why I have to re-record my vinyl if I upgrade cartridges and want to hear the improvement. That's a lot of trouble, but it's worth it to me. In regard to FLAC versus WAV; https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/flac-vs-wavIf you are an "audiophile", all of this matters; if you want to have a perpetual smile on your face while enjoying records you have spent a lifetime collecting, without having to turn a single record over, this is the way to go. |
When I did my thing, nothing like what you have was available, and my only recourse was to buy what was available and rebuild it utilizing prime parts. The case wasn't big enough, and I had to even rebuild that; it reminded me of the very early days when audiophiles had to design and build their own rigs.
Thanks to your post, if anything ever goes wrong I'll know what to do.
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At last, some verification, and validation of what I've been saying.
While I've got the best of my entire collection on hard drive, I would never sell my LP's
Just recently, I upgraded the phono with Telefunken tubes; bought a new cartridge; which meant I had to do the whole thing all over again in order to enjoy the new system without the hassle of handling records. That's what's so fantastic about what we have; we can program it any way we like, listen to wonderful records all night, without out ever leaving our listening chair.
We enjoy every nuance and detail of playing records, without playing records. I know the infidels don't believe us, but I say "Let them eat cake if they have no bread"; especially after trying to inform them for the last time.
After seeing all the nonbelievers, I realize how exclusive we are; that makes me feel rather special, as you should as well.
Enjoy the music rtatts |
Correction, it's "analog" versus "analog"; that's what a DAC does, it converts digital to analog.
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Whatever it is, the people who know PC are staying away from this post, they know better.
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Markum, that's what I do, "Just enjoy the music" without handling my precious records, except for the time I file them into the hard drive.
My mistake was to try and inform those on another forum who don't know it's possible to enjoy the same quality of play back, and no longer handle your records, plus enjoying the convenience of programming them in any order you like.
Knowledgeable people on this forum have already known that for some time.
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Thank you much Jim.
What they don't realize, is the fact that it's all "analog"; digital is pure noise, that would be the sound before it goes through the digital to analog converter.
The quality of the sound, "analog", depends as always on the quality of the equipment; they are comparing one analog to another analog and don't even know it.
I don't even think they know movies are single frames of film moving past a light projector.
When they talk on the phone, they have no idea that their conversation has been changed to very high frequency that goes to a micro wave tower, then transmitted to another tower that send it to the phone company where it is decoded back into "analog", or normal voice.
People who know PC, no longer respond to posts like mine; the "Ana logerites" respond on both forums; but when you have something akin to a religion, you got to keep it going.
Just having fun. |
Teo, although I have been sentenced, it has yet to be carried out; but it's for sure that never again shall I invade the holy temple of "analog".
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"And your point is"?
Those who know don't have to ask, and those who don't know may never understand.
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