Here is a thread from an Emotiva Lounge member, Aluninati. He has built some of the finest cases I have ever seen. And that is to be expected since he is a very accomplished CNC mill operator.
Everyone I've conversed with sings the praises of the nCore amps. They are quite powerful, dead nuts silent, and very dynamic.
I would recommend you proceed with the purchase, I think you will be quite pleased with the results...
Why do so many people on Audiogon insist on posting when they have no direct knowledge of the product being discussed? Hearsay is not allowed in a court of law and has little use here as well.
It is OK to suggest someone consider a product and do their own research or listening test if they ask for suggestions on what products to consider. But to actually recommend purchasing said product based solely upon what they have read/heard is a bit much as far as I am concerned.
If someone is familiar with a product they should clearly state the conditions of their experience. Parroting others is not helpful.
I've contacted Kraemer design. However he has no longer making those cases for DIY NCore400.
I'd love to hear feedback from someone who have AB these amps with those fine SS amps. I understand being so specific on Pass and Lamm would make it harder to obtain feedbacks.
All I've heard from class D amp was coming from my subs! For bass, it is incredible but not sure about mid and high, etc
NCore is a new product I can't find a place to audition in Sydney, Australia
I've found Mola Mola vs Soulution review rather interesting.
I have heard some N core amplifiers in three different setups,
at my shop
at the manufacturers facility
and the New York Audio Show
I have found these amplifier so far to be incredibly over rated, clean but lifeless sound, good bass control but no midrange magic.
We compared these amps to a pair of much more expensive conventional amplifiers and there was no contest.
Don't believe what you read on these things, the hype with the comparison's to the best solid state
As a fan of some switching amplifiers I've always suggested newcomers to compare their differences making sure to use large copper cabling with the class Ds before committing. While my main system is powered by tubes I greatly prefer my wood mounted nCore 400s powering my Avalon Monitors in the studio.
While I've never even seen the Mola Molas it's no surprise to me that simple internal wire changes became the voicing tool towards the final build as mentioned in the article below.
Class D in general has always been very sensitive to cabling which is why most reviews of this class have been a joke. Even so the distinct difference in Class D presentation until now has been called sterile or analytical. The idea of adding tubes to dumb down this presentation is so NOT the solution.
Clearly Bruno has found a fundamental change that has taken his basic design to another level.
If you have a chance to compare to your favorite linear solid state amplifiers compare your level of fatigue at higher or realistic volume.
I can only comment on the sound based on what I heard at the latest Newport Audio show. The Mola Molas were okay.
I purposely downplayed that to make a point. Not everyone is keen on the sound despite the pedigree and the hype. Count me as one of them. I was quite eager to hear what they were all about and came away not that all impressed. Yes, they were good, but not extended or dynamic as I like it. It might have been the music, the room, whatever, but Bruno was there and I talked to him a bit and he seemed to be a well intentioned and knowledgeable chap but in the end....
I guess I'll always be in the old tried and trued class A/B camp.
If I may, try and audition the latest from the Marantz Reference Series. Some reviewer from Absolute Sound loved the PM-11S3b intergrated and found it to be better than a Plinius. I, myself, have the PM-15S2b and love it.
All the best,
I have a pair of NC400 amps. And I have either owned or had for extended audition other amplifiers from Atma-sphere, First Watt, Coincident, LFD. In my opinion, some of the best out tube and solid state amps out there.
I think the NC400 is competitive with some of the best out there. They may not be everyones cup of tea (but then again some people love First Watt and dislike Coincident), but they're very good.
I have no desire to change my amplifiers right now. They are paired with the Coincident Statement Linestage and they have no trouble keeping up.
You can only honestly report on what you hear, of course your impression
will vary from others. I feel as you do, so far what I've heard from clss D is
decent but nothing special, certainly not ground breaking by any stretch. I
realize the amplifiers I find superb and preferable may not sound like much
to another listener and that's to be expected. There is much hype in high
end audio that doesn't always hold up in reality sometimes
Audiooracle, YOU ARE SO FULL OF BULL!!
If that is how you feel then WHY were you SO ANXIOUS to become a DEALER for one of the OEMs of the NC1200 Amps???
This upon you hearing them AT THE NY Audio Show!! AND ETC!!
So not a dealer you decide its payback time.
You are so very unprofessional.
Primare, I have heard the MC501, the XA160.5 and the 1.2.
I had high hopes for the MC501 but it is a little too dark/syrup for me. I like a more transparent and resolving sounding amp. It is a nice sounding amp just not my cup of tea.
The XA160.5 I liked a lot. The X version was just OK. But the XA was really NICE. But for me I would have needed the XA200.5 and now other issues came into the picture for me. But it was on the top of my list.
The Lamm was nice but I liked the Pass more. Though I liked the Lamm more then the MC501.
I have heard both the NC400 and the NC1200 in many systems. The NC1200 is defiantly better sounding then the NC400 from top to bottom. That said the NC400 is very good if done right and used with the right cabling.
Now from your OP you want to know more about the NC1200.
Most of my experience is with the Veritas amps. I have heard the Mola-Mola a few times and (I can not remember the name)an other. Because I have heard the Veritas in so many systems I will only comment on them.
Well they are one of the best sounding amps I have heard. I would have to spend a lot more to get a slightly better sound.
Mind you that does not mean that there are not comparable sounding amps. They just all have a sightly different signature.
Someone likes vanilla while someone likes chocolate ice cream. They are both just as good.
I belong to several Audio Clubs in the NY/NJ Metro area.
At TWO different meetings with TWO different systems and with most(98%)of the members in the Class A/AB, SS/Tube camp I was expecting people to stay with their "camp" when the Veritas amps was demoed.
There were a lot of changed minds and a lot of praise. And several members have bought or decided to buy the amps. That was not an easy feat.
Some of those owned ARC, Pass, etc.
If you are looking for a very dynamic, transparent, resolving, dead quiet, linear from top to bottom, with no added tonal color amp that will just play back what it is given then give it a try.
PS it will show you were your weakest link is in your system.
If you're still using WA Sophia 3s, take a look at the Aesthetix Altas Signature. It's a no feedback design and sounds great on the S3s.
The other amp I'd like to hear on the S3s is the Spectral DMA 260.
Thank You all for your response. Much appreciated!
I've made payment for 1 pair of TRL600 amps. I'll soon find out and at least letting you know my feedback on the NCore1200 vs McIntosh MC501
Note: I've created a new account under Highfidelitysound user as I've realised I shouldn't name the account base on gear brand name!
You can find my system listing under Highfidelitysound
I've finally received the TRL600 amps. I've broken in the amps through running the Isotek burn-in CD for a dozen times.
My initial feedback as follow:
1. Lots more gain comparing to my McIntosh MC501. This cause slight hum noise which have been using Granite Audio Ground Zero.
2. The sound is more powerful, better resolution, more detail and faster. These could be due to higher gain?
3. Mid bass and lower bass are their strong points.
However I feel the amps sound is somehow not very engaging. It is quite hard to explain but I'm not entirely sure if they sound better or just play louder. I used to have a heavily mod Primare CD31. My initial impression after the mod was like "Wow" but over times, I realised it just played louder. Hence created false impression of better sounding. I've then upgraded to the Esoteric K01 and it is a truly awesome player, not play loud but soulful. I just want to use these 2 CD players to express my feeling on the sound of the NC1200 vs MC501. Of course to my ears, the MC501 also have quite a number of weakness!
Hi Primare_cd31, if your new TRLs are indeed based on Ncore NC1200, you are in for a very long break-in before the devices give you their very best.... I fear that running a break-in CD a dozen times will not do the trick. With merrill Veritas at least, the initial lack of emotional engagement gradually morphs into much more than the absolute opposite. Complete break-in is at least 1000 hours. See my scribblings on the subject at:
This far, I have had the impression that public exposure of Veritas and perhaps other Ncore amps may have occured with devices fresh off the factory floor, or perhaps with only a couple of hundred hours of operation and less than one full day of in-situ warmup... This could easily explain the reservations that AudioOracle and others have about the technology.
One recommendation... Run your TRLs 24/7, and feed them FM interstation hash night-time or whenever you are not listening to music.... Will make break-in a matter of several weeks instead of several months. And expect a lot of up and downs of performance during break-in... Frustratingly inevitable.
By the way, could you please post the URL of the Mola-Mola Kaluga comparison with the Solution amp?
Hi again Primare_CD31 and all, I could find no mention of the TRL600 amp on the tuberesearchlogic.com site. Is there information about this device anywhere on the net... Like functional description, specs, features, pricing, etc...?
Guido, they were at the NJ Audio Show this year.
Other then that I can not find the amps on their site and can not find "Care Audio" who had the room at the show.
I must say that I found the sound of the room as just average. That is not a bad thing, just not a, I want to stay and listen longer, or a wow moment.
Oops, sorry I meant the NY Audio Show.
Thank you Al, I will contact TRL and find out the scoop about the TRL600. I will post any info in the public domain to Agon. G.
Guido, Here is the some what of a review of the Mola-Mola Amps that you are looking for. It is near the end.
Primare_cd31. I must say that what you are experiencing with the TRL amps is not what I have seen from the Veritas. That said the Veritas, as Guido has observed, do go through their own break-in period. Perhaps TRL does no pre break-in before they ship them.
By the way keep them ON ALL the time. They sound their best fully warmed up. They take a few hours to a day to sound their best after they are turned off. They use very little electric at idle.
That said I have not heard the Veritas do what you are hearing. And the Mola-Mola and Acoustic Imagery amps also.
Try lifting the ground on the amps by using a cheater plug and see if that works and let use know.
As an aside use some vibration control, I like Stillpoints a lot, and try some different power cords.
I have chatted with Paul Weitzel at TRL.... the TRL600 monoblock amp is indeed based on Ncore NC1200 modules. Each amp is housed in a half-size chassis measuring 7.5" x 4" x 15X. Rather than the usual 15A IEC connectors, TRL600 uses a Neutrik latchable power connector. The device is supplied with a custom power cord similar to an FIM cord. A conversion adapter is apparently also supplied for usage with 3rd party cords terminated with IEC connectors. There is one set of Cardas binding posts. The XLR input connector is by Neutrik, and the RCA input connector is by Cardas. The amp is meant to be always on when plugged into AC... As such, there is no on/off/standby switch. List price is $9,000. For further information, you may contact Paul at 509-989-4437; email: firstname.lastname@example.org.
Guido, That is great and thanks for the info.
I think the reason the room sounded just OK (again not a bad thing) when I heard it at the NY Audio Show this year was that they kept on switching the two different amps in and out. In my opinion a dumb thing to do sound wise. Even many Class A and A/B amps need time to "settle" to sound their best.
I've had HRS Nimbus/ Spacer under the amps with both top and bottom Nimbus.
I was in shock after removing the top Nimbus so the spacer contacts the bottom of the amp while the Nimbus isolate the Spacer and the hardwood amp platform. The sound is so so much better than my MC501 amps now. Really don't understand how these changes made a huge difference!
It seems 2 Nimbus caused too much damping. This has made the sound more heavy!
I should have said the coupler and spacer
Finally heard the Ncore-based Mola-Mola Kaluga monos at RMAF. My early impressions are at: