The very same. BTW sound is not transmitted through speaker wire/cable but rather a signal.
Hype, Hyperbole and high price!
Okay, I understand that this site has to make money by having advertisers, but cheese and crackers, the claims that are made are just laughable if not down right criminal! Before I attended an engineering university I too was duped into buying expensive wires and such. Now, armed with an engineering and physics background, I can see through the BS claims made. I try and not let it get in the way of my enjoyment of good quality stereo equipment, but when a salesman tries to sell me something based on testimonials, hype and hyperbole, I tell him politely my background and then ask him a series of questions which leaves him dumbfounded.
Such crap as directional wires - (I used to work for both Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman) and trust me, if we had to test the miles of wires for directionality in every piece of equipment built...well you get the gist.
I have friends that are audio snobs and although they argue with me (Basically buyer's remorse) they know that what I say is true and end the conversation. Oh well, I suppose I will continue to get a headache when I read said claims.
Sigh!
Such crap as directional wires - (I used to work for both Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman) and trust me, if we had to test the miles of wires for directionality in every piece of equipment built...well you get the gist.
I have friends that are audio snobs and although they argue with me (Basically buyer's remorse) they know that what I say is true and end the conversation. Oh well, I suppose I will continue to get a headache when I read said claims.
Sigh!
Showing 30 responses by kenny928
I am an engineer first and an audiophile second. I just get tired of the massive increase in prices over time. I have been an audiophile since 1979 and have seen the increase in hype and prices without empirical data to back the claims. I have had a slew of systems ranging in names from ML, Krell, MBL, Meridian and the like. My preamp is the MBL 6010 of 1998 vintage and it is powered by the ML 331 so although older, it is a kick butt system. No tweaks or thousand dollar interconnects or speaker cable or power cords. The beauty of having a dear friend that owns a high end audio shop allows me to audition thousands of dollars of cables and you would be surprised that the $6000 cables sound no different from the $200 ones. Not an engineering snob in the least, just annoys me when terminology is snatched out of the air and used to make claims just to sell the product. Ever notice that power cord shipped with the product? It is an inexpensive one. Why would a 20K piece of equipment be shipped out with such a feeble cord if it made such a huge difference in sound? Just sayin'! |
jmcgrogan2- Ahh, the beauty of freedom of speech, ain't it a grand? As for whining, that is a matter of opinion and as for joining another forum because you dislike what I say, see above. The beauty of it is being able to engage in meaningful discourse (that's adult discussion BTW) without resorting to name calling and the like. I served my country for that very right for you to have your opinion and me mine. Like it or not, I'm here to stay regardless what you like or dislike. And I am sure that other adults capable of discourse would agree with me. |
jperry - I have a friend that owns a high end shop and I have sampled various cables and interconnects worth $$$$$ and yes I will agree with you, Nordost does sound good and I have been to their demonstrations, however, it is best done in one's own listening room. I do have them on my tube system as they seem to do the trick. |
asp307 - When it comes to money, yes, has nothing to do with me proving how smart I am. I am just trying to generate a discussion on what is transpiring in the industry. The smart consumer is an educated consumer. Would you buy a car on pure hype? Much like the vitamin industry claims can be made without any substance. Just look at
Machina Dynamica's Brilliant Pebbles! Type that into oogle's search engine and tell me that that will do what it claims! I have a friend with a 30K system and he actually bought these! Really? |
Wlute - I tend to trust the ears as well and try not to let other factors get in the way. That is why I try to go in w/o being influenced before an audition. There were some items that when sampled made my ears bleed or felt like they were going to. Some of the equipment that I had my heart set on disappointed me when tested and others gave me that feeling of pure joy. I have to agree with you that for some strange reason Nordost cables makes my tube system sing! Yes, Physics at the quantum level acts like that gopher game when being observed, you know, the one where you try to smack the gopher with the mallet as it sticks its head out of the hole? Strange how that works, eh? (Spending too much time in Canada!) |
nonoise - Make friends with a store owner, a drink or two will open up lots of doors when it comes to sampling product. You may, like I have, get to see and or assist in setting up megabuck systems in the 1% households! When their wallets open they really open and seem to be free flowing. Always good for me because that equates to fine single malt scotch and a cigar or two.
Schadenfreude ist nicht so gut , mein Freund
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Al - BRAVO!! jperry - I have the opportunity to get cables well below their MSRP, I tend to buy equipment used so as not to take the depreciation hit. Believe me, I have had some pretty pricey setups in the past, all obtained used. For my aged ears the three best preamps I had were, the First Sound Presence MK3 (paid 500), should have kept that, the MBL 6010 ($950) and still have and the Meridian 600 series, just found one again. I have 6 pairs of speakers, 2 pairs for the tube set up, one folded horn and the classic Klipsch and the remaining for solid state which I switch depending on the type of music I am in the mood for. Jazz, classical, Celtic, etc. |
nonoise - I tried a slew of cables for free just to see what the hype was about. Some were better than others and some were offered to me at a sweet deal because he could not get rid of them or were demo samples. Some I passed on others I took. I did perform a comparison with pairs and found little if any difference between some. Example: Kimber 8TC v. Transparent Audio reference. Old ears, maybe, but the Kimber was easy on the ears for some reason. Also constructed my own braided pair which I still use and they sound really nice. I am always experimenting with different equipment. That's the fun about this hobby. Unfortunately, this industry is akin to that of the computer industry, what's hot toady is not tomorrow. Remember the future proof components of years past? |
Whart - See the link below, an extreme example of what disturbs me, but an example none the less. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm |
Whart - Yes, sniping at it's best. Touchy topic for sure, not a topic for the thin skinned. As for your question, yes I did hear differences in various cables and two come to mind, Kimber and Nordost, for some reason they made a difference when used with my setup. And yes, everyone is selling something. Just look at the political climate, more snake oil and hokus pokus and bait and switch. I love being accused of having a superiority complex though. A kid born in the "Hood" that made good. LOL! |
Whart - If it generates thought and meaningful discussion I will walk through the gates of hell. At least, or I hope it will make those think. As for painting with a broad brush, please forgive, as I know that there are quality products out there that forego the hype and the product proves itself time and time again. |
geared 4me- You missed my point completely, I was just pointing out that the industry is flawed and unless we as consumers put an end to it it will continue. Superiority? I highly doubt that, I come from very humble beginnings and when attacked by people who misinterpret I fall back on my service and the freedoms that we as proud Americans are afforded. Everyone has an opinion and not once do I ask anyone to bow to my so called superiority. BTW, I did not start by demeaning anyone but rather resorted to a retort due to being attacked for my views on the obvious. If that offends you, then so be it, you are so entitled to your opinion. If you cannot recognize the problems in this industry and the misrepresentation that abounds, I truly feel sorry for you as it will continue. I was forewarned that this topic would spark disdain and comments, but I for one will not go through life taking a marketer's flowery description based on flawed science. |
aolmrd1241 - I tried to point out that I get disturbed when I see speaker cable listed for 15K and then read the literature claiming this and that, then my eyes roll back in my head. I avoid the literature of the affordable items, then audition then make an informed decision based on that. My skeptic hat goes on when I am purposely looking at adverts that try to justify such an absurd price point for cable. The question I ask is, "what makes this cable worth thousands of dollars to that of another affordable one?" Curiosity? Maybe, fraud, you be the judge. |
Douglas - I agree with you partially, I do not have a disdain for those who choose a particular cable over another, I have a disdain for the marketing tactics used in this hobby. By all means, if one wants to spend thousands of $ on cable, go for it. I just think that some techniques used are very questionable and deceiving with no accountability. As for bikes, I have had my fair share of them as well, from Japanese bikes, which BTW are very reliable, to the older Harleys, which I would not want to ride due to their inherent problems and uncomfortable ride. Harley took a turn for the worst/better with their new design after their bankruptcy, however, I can't justify buying a new one as their prices are ridiculous. Trust me, I rag on them as well. They too hide the problems associated with their product and basically lie to their customers. I did not buy that road king new and the chrome is being replaced a little at a time. As for reliability, I did make changes to the cam tensioners and other issues that plague this brand and made it a more reliable ride. I get just as much flak from the Harley forum for pointing out the moco's issues, so I am use to it. I appreciate you not going to the lowest common denominator like some ot the others. Regards, Ken Ride safely! |