Hubbell HG, Surge Protected & IG, Anyone use this?

This is a test to link my new registered user name to this thread
David

Zorpman,

I'm interested in more info on your question: "Have you given any thought to the waveform deformation and phase distortion of all this protection?" As this may actual introduce degradation in sound quality and was not specifically but in general the question/point of my original post to see if anything such as this may impact sound quality. So, will these power artifacts get introduced and if yes, how will they affect the sound quality?

As to your other points, I agree that lightning by its nature could jump protection, it is just that I'm looking for more protection but balanced this against the most cost effective method.

David

Zorpman & all: The wiring and drywall are complete. Remaining tasks:

A. Pick out the electrical receptacles for:
- Supply to the AV cabinet (Monster AVS2000)
- Computer/LAN Cabinet (UPS which requires 30AMP 120V L5-30P - 30A Twist-Lock)
- Subwoofers
- RPTV
- Equipment Room (ER) patch outlets.
B. Then pick out power cords where applicable & effective

BTW: The choice to go with the MC-4-2 wire as well as the 10 & 12-gauge sizes was to future proof as best as possible within reasonable limits. For example: Using MC-10-2 to supply the AV Cab I could change the breaker and outlet to 30AMP if I needed to :-) future upgrade of the Denon 5803 to 5 or more large monoblock type esoteric Amp’s and the other components to match, Add more circuits to the subpanel for a 2nd UPS requiring 30AMP for the computer/LAN cabinet, etc..... Also, the subpanel is rated for 100AMPs but even this could be upgraded so much more easily than running a replacement or even a 2nd supply line from the Service Entrance all the way to the other side of the house (50ft of which 85% of the distance is now finished) to the subpanel in the ER, etc....

And yes, receptacles are the easiest to replace, but why spend even $15 ea and replace in a few months if dissatisfied, if a few $ more (ie: IG8362) can get the colors and performance that matches the equipment I currently have. If the sound will not be degraded compared to an IG8300 or PS Audio Port, (ie: $30-50USD max) etc. (BTW: I’m not opposed to the PS Audio and its price, but I’m having a hard time justifying it which is why I’m posting to this forum for info and advice)

David

Bob, anyone, should I give up my color scheme for the Orange IG8300? Will I hear a difference compared to the IG8362 with the surge protector, steal strap and rivet?

To all: I too have been there, done that. (Although not to the extent that Bob's has - no smoke & flames but did have to go through filing an insurance claim – no more aging cheap surge protectors)

I'm a Systems Integrator for computer systems, networks and security. Almost 20 years ago I went through 3M's Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) & protection from it type training, and since then have dealt with designing requirements for, integration and implementing computer systems, networks and security along with UPS, surge protection and ESD Protection for clients. (and myself)

I know for example that even relatively small: transients/surges (including ESD), deformed sine waves, brownouts, overages, EMI/RFI, etc. will degrade components within a given device over time with the ultimate result of failure of the device. Therefore, protection from these is vital for the protection of one's investment and time. And yes, inside one's house is a minefield of sources for surges especially ESD that require protection to be implemented. (most know the major culprits, but the so called minor ones can cause damage over time such as the powering on and off of PC's & monitors, microwave ovens, bathroom fans (major source!!!!!), exercise equipment (powered treadmills!!! WOW what a source!!!), etc.

As for that treadmill which is a "True" brand and almost top of their line: Just watch a lamp plugged into the same circuit and yes every step one takes not only dims the light for a portion of each step one takes but shoots surges and noise into the electrical system. (no, I have not measured it ... yet) A good quality surge protector (which of course is in use) will help limit the surges and noise from the treadmill out to the rest of the house but not completely - remember that noise is diminished (X dB reduction) but not eliminated and the brownout for every step taken is not resolved which will affect most devices.

Of course one can really isolate power such as a dedicated feed and/or separate service entrance for power destined for your AV equipment but this of course does not protect one from ESD. However, even this isolated power can be easily bypassed if one does not connect every item that is wired in any way (Coax, interconnects (like powered subwoofers), wired remotes, etc.) to this power. BTW: seems that it's a catch 22, because too many devices and you may have limited the culprits but still have introduced source for many of the problems listed above. Hopefully the high quality of the power supplies in all the attached components will limit the problems but not eliminate them.

Part of any protection scheme must include all the inbound signals and attached devices. Including surge protectors on the telephone line, antennas (HDTV, Sat, FM, etc.), CATV, etc. If one has wired RS-232 or RS-4xx communication from a Crestron type device to for example an HVAC system, then one should use an RS-232/4xx surge protection device. ie: close all back doors for surges, etc. (APC Protectnet devices: model PV for any AV type coax (antenna, cable modem, DSS, etc), P232 and a 4-port ver: P232-4 for RS-232/4xx, PTEL or 4-port PTEL-4 for telephone. I have two P232-4, one PTEL-4, and four PV in line at the entrance of the respective service except the P232-4's which will be mounted inside the AV Cabinet protecting my Crestron AV2 and even the RS232 line between the Crestron and the Denon AVR5803's RS232 port is protecting one from the other in case of malfunction of one sending a surge over the serial line to the other)

As for ESD, keep styrofoam and especially scotch tape away form all AV, computer, network, etc. type equipment or anything that is attached to them. Also don't even stand next to that equipment when using scotch tape!! Properly ground equipment cabinets/racks for ESD. I have designed an ESD protection scheme for my Equipment Room using 3M ESD Floor Mats, etc. and the Theater side of the AV Cabinet. Three in-wall insolated (green) ground wires wired from the subpanel's ground bar (same termination point for all receptacle grounds associated w/ the ER & Theater in order to prevent ground loops) is attached to: (one size smaller than the ground wire in the outlet supplying power to the given device/cabinets to encourage the flow through the receptacle's ground):
1. AV Equipment Cabinet
2. Solid copper ground bar on the wall next to the Computer/LAN Cabinet. The cabinet is attached to the bar using the same gauge size as the in-wall ground wired to the bar and the 3M ESD Floor Mats will be wired to this bar)
3. A wall plate on an electrical type box that I'm designing that will be next to the handle on the Theater side of the AV Equipment Cabinet with the rule that one must touch this before touching the cabinet. (Since no device is connected to this line, we used a 10-gauge wire. Also, a 1 Mega ohm resister will be in installed in-line to properly drain/dissipate the ESD without the sound/pain/EMI/RFI associated with the spark - this is per 3M ESD standards. If one forgets, the cabinet is grounded and will drain/dissipate the ESD. I'm looking into the need to attach a drain pad/wire (w/ a 1 Mega ohm resister) to the plexi portion of the door (the door has a steel frame but most of the door is plexi) to dissipate ES w/o the spark at the same time providing a backup to the wall plate). Some people may think that I'm going to extremes w/ ESD protection but they don't really understand the threat that ESD poses. Every cable and open connector on the back of the devices is waiting for an ESD disaster or will at least cause some damage. Even touching the front outside of a device (inserting a CD/DVD and touching the chassis) can and will in most cases allow the ESD inside the chassis and damage interior components. Most non-ruggedized-military equipment (ie: not designed with complete ESD protection) will allow ESD inside.

(btw, I have not talked about all the different kinds of ESD and their potential for damage)

Sorry to be so long winded...
David

Bob/anyone, I need to place the order: Should I give up my color scheme for the Orange IG8300? Will I hear a difference compared to the IG8362 with the surge protector, steal strap and rivet?

Please advise.
David

Bob,
How long of a breakin period and what entails a breakin for an outlet? Time, amount of power flow, both?
Thanks
David
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Lak,
1. I would like to get the colors as long as it does not impact the sound quality.
2. The additional surge protection at the device protects from surges that initiate from inside the house as well as help keep the device plugged into the surge protector from sending surges to other devices (I asked Hubbell tech serv if the IG8x62 provided 2-way protection and he answered yes)
3. I agree with Bob that multiple layers of protection is best. "Defense in depth" (again, as long at it does not degrade sound quality)
4. For my computer equipment I use multiple surge protection devices. I will even place a surge protector between my UPS and the computers in the study since the computers are not plugged directly into the UPS. (goes through the patch line in the walls)
Thanks,
David