This is a tough one because it doesn't really have a sound. I would say for the VR-4jr everything is so neutral. The midrange is sweet but not artificially so. The highs are strong and smooth. And the bass is extended and tight. Something that is unique about the speakers is the 3D soundstage that you can get because of the design.
For the downside at least for the VR4jr, it would be the fact that the spikes that it comes with are useless (they bend way too easy) - you have to get your own lead shot and put it in. But this is all by design. That's how he meets a $4k price point for speakers that rival higher priced ones.
I only heard them briefly at a dealer last year, not enough to form an opinion. But just yesterday there were 8 used pairs here on the Gon for sale. They seem to be dropping like flies recently.
Neutral is indeed an accurate description of the VR-4Jr. They're also extremely dynamic and disappear if they're set up correctly and are driven by the right equipment. There are speakers that have more air and more top extension, perhaps a more magical midrange and more slam in the bass, but at $4k they really are a bargain. And they're efficient, so you don't necessarily have to have a mega-watt amp to drive them.
The VR-4Jr. is probably the Honda Accord of the speaker world. They are tough to beat for the money.
I would agree with the above. They sound like what you hook up to them. I've tried quite a few combinations with mine and I have gone from thinking I wonder what all the hype is about to now I understand it. I would consider using proven to be good combinations with them. I don't think they are speakers that you can just throw anything at and they will sound great. One thing I really like about them is that they sound great out of the sweet spot, I can really enjoy music even from the other room when these are playing. What I've personally discovered is that these speakers like some power. I've tried 70, 100, 300, and 400 watts and they became noticably more dynamic and lively as the power increased.
I had them for a couple months... problem was for most of the time I used wire that I discovered was horrible - wire was hard conductors and took away some midbass (never was a big wire person but that opened my eyes).
I did notice they are very dynamic, can go loud quickly. Didn't spend enough time tweaking as I was running through so much different music trying them out. Top end with it's excellent detail carried through the house too much where my wife would complain yet I didn't feel it was loud. Bass was nice and deep.
I just ran out of budget and dropped back down a bracket or two.
I only heard them at the HE show in NYC - they sound rather "hi-fi" to me. But that's obviously a quick demo.
Dynamic and definitely full range. A fun speaker to listen to all types of music. Not anemic sounding like lots of the new high end clones. Better bass than speakers costing 5 times higher
I just bought a pair! The thing that captured my attention was how easily they disappear. You literally don't notice them and notice the music instead. The bass is amazing-and the complete tonal range is articulate-never harsh. You must spend a LOT of time setting them up but once they are man are they amazing!
They are very revealing, however and will not make bad recordings sound good. "What you give em is what you get"
As the manual states, If you dont get goose bumps they are not set up correctly!
I would be interested in what $20K speakers have worse bass than the VR4JRs in your opinion. Wilson Watt Puppy 7s? Avalalon Eidolons? Dynaudio C4s? Verity Parsifal Encores? JM Lab Alto Utopias? B&W Sig 800s? Piega C8ltd?
If so, I would strongly disagree with your opinion, as IMO, all on that list (the first few 15k - 20K speakers that come to mind) have MUCH more solid bass: extension, articulation, and slam than the VS VR4js. Don't get me wrong, I do like the VS sound. I have the VR1s and love them.
I heard them about a week ago in a dealers room, I found the base a little bit forward and heavier or more pronounced than I like, the highs were not quite as clear. Be great for rock. It was set up on an all BAT system, so tubes all the way, which matches my system, only I have Conrad-Johnson.
For the money, it is probably ok, I have a pair of old B&W 804 matrix, and the sound for me is still fine. Hope that helps.
Goatwuss Speakers in that price range are Piega c10 ltd and the 40k piega c40. These are excellent speakers but not on the bottom end. I had piega speakers for over 4 years so I am pretty familiar. I now have the VR-7SE which should not be even compared to the VR-4's. The Wilson Alexandria's would be a rival.
It's funny how on the posts above: the people who have actually listened to these speakers for a significant amount of time have great things to say, and the ones that have heard a demo or a VR-1 has negative connotations to throw in there.
Lesson: You don't have to post something if you don't know what you are talking about.
You are telling me that the VS VR4JR has superior bass than the Piega C10ltd? Couldn't be more the other way around in my experience. While I ultimately found the Piegas too lacking in dynamics for my taste, I thought they excelled in bass articulation and definition.
No I don't own the VR4jrs...but I have heard them in many different dealer rooms and shows over the years. The only time these speakers caught my attention was at the NY Highend Show this year. They were being driven by the DK integrated with NOS Mullards and sounded very impressive, actually the first time ever it sounded good to me. The imaging/staging/dynamics/bass were superb with the DK. Before this, the VR4jrs always sounded hi-fi to me. If I didn't own better similarly priced speakers, I would have seriously considered buying a pair. But after about 1/2 hr of listening, something started to bother me. I was getting fatigued because the upper midrange and highs sounded gritty to me. Not sure if it was the amp, speaker, CDP etc. Too bad. I was really impressed for the first 1/2 hour.
Excuse my ignorance, but what does "sounded hi-fi" mean?
Bartinimi, "sounded hi-fi" means unnatural. Perhaps I should have said "mid-fi", like many of the cheaper Sony's, Marantz's, pioneer's, etc. But don't misunderstand me, I would not put VR4jrs in that category at all. Before the NY Highend Show, they sounded good but below what you would expect for $4000.
My experience is my experience. Not having bought these speakers I have not bought into them and have nothing to defend, merely giving my impression. I agree that a 1/2 or so demo in a store is not nearly representative of a day or even week in ones home with one's own set up.
Having heard them and found them wanting it was not without knowledge just without more experience of them. The lesson for all on Audiogon or elsewhere is "Trust your own Ears"
Anything anyone elsse says is merely their opinion based on their own biases and listening preferences. A pair of ears that you know and trust may be another matter.
A call for opinions elicts them, whether all and sundry agree of not.
You're right. I must have been in a bad mood yesterday because I was harsh on a couple of posts. This is the second time I am going to apologize today. I apologize.
I have a modest system, and they sound nothing like what a lot of people have posted above - fatiguing, "hi-fi", below what you'd expect for $4k, highs sounding harsh and gritty.
Here are some reviews of what of how they sound properly set up.
The Stereo Times-03/05
Positive Feedback Online-Issue 17
The Absolute Sound, Dec/Jan 2004/5 issue
EnjoytheMusic.com, Dec 2004
Audio Asylum - Dec. 2004
It turns out my review of what I heard was also not fair to the VonSchweiker4jr. Went back to the stereo store and discovered that instead of being by-wired as they are intended to be they were but rather using somesort of cord that allows the top to be connected to the bottom. Anyway what I heard was the new Vonsheiwker4sr and at twice the price they were a definet hit. So when I hear them as they were meant to be set up I can give a better review and one much more worth reading.
I've noticed a lot of that. I've seen a demo that was using a transmittion line, and the manual suggests clearly that the sound will be hampered unless you bi-wire. I think these speakers will not sound near their potential unless you bi-wire, put them on spikes, and add leadshot. I've heard significant improvements to the point where, I couldn't imagine listening to it stock. I haven't heard the 4sr, but VS is a terrific speaker designer. Not everyones taste, but works for me.
Great, at least! I actually own a pair!
What Nrchy - your sex life?
sorry to hear that.
I have a chance to listen to these fine speakers several times at a friends house over the last couple of months.
I think that from the lower octaves through the midbass and lower mid they are exceptional. As the sound moves through the mid to upper mid there is what I call a bit of a hollowness or slight honkiness. I find this common with some speakers that err slightly on the clinical side of natural. I have heard these speakers with different sources and amplification and this is part of its inherent sonic signature. This isn't a dig. They have many great virtues; Speed, clarity, aliveness, pace, smoothness.
We compared them side by side with a pair of Source Technologies 2268's (manufactured on the east coast)and we both agreed the blend between the mid and tweeter was more seamless and natural and there was a greater sense of a whole musical event with substantially more acoustic from the recorded venue coming thru in that region with the 2268. The music had more of an "event" sense as the VR4jr's were faster with greater emphasis on dynamics and impact and clarity. The 2268's were equal in clarity.
Both are tremendous.
At the end of the day it was apparent that the more seamless crossover through the mid of the 2268 was allowing more mid info to come through and a more natural harmonic sense of space and openness. The VR4jr's were open but not as naturally so... If that makes any sense.
The jr's do things at there price point that are exceptional, but for me the bit of a honkiness drives me nuts. I've heard the same thing from the Red Rose speakers. I believe that a good 60% or so of the speakers at this price point suffer from this problem.
It's a combination of resonant peaks of a driver along with using certain metalized caps and of course driver/s compatibility. Anyway the jr's are very special but they have too much of their own sound where you want it least.
As I mentioned above, my time with the VR4jrs was much less than After_hrs, but my impressions were the same. I felt the same driver "dis-integration" and although they were lots of fun to listen to, I still felt like I was dealing with audio gymnastics - very close to music making, but just not quite.
I bet they sound good, but I wonder why there is such a flood of them on here...upgrade-itus?
They ARE nice sounding speakers, but we'll see if they pass the long-term test.
I think most who have not had a chance to hear speakers with seamless integration of drivers such Apogee planars, full range electrostats, Source Technologies mentioned above, or Hyperion 938s (which I own) would not appreciate the mild lack of driver integration that the VR4jrs can exhibit. VR4jrs are very dynamic, alive sounding with great imaging, but they do lack that coherence you hear with the speakers I mentioned above. For me it was very enjoyable to listen to the VR4jrs for a short time, but in the long run I don't think I could live with it.
I can't say that I would argue with the integration criticism. I don't think any dynamic speakers can compare to the seemless integration of electrostats and planar speakers. These speakers have their own shortcomings which is why I went with the VS. They cannot compete with bass, which is very poor in most cases (not all). Also dynamics are very important to me and I just don't hear the that with the electrostats that I've listened to (at least near the same price range). That's where individual taste comes to play.
The only speakers that I'd consider in place of the VS right now is Analysis Audio (starting at twice the price of the VS).
They are good at bass and smooth all around. But I'd still miss the VS.
Funny how we all hear presentations slightly different, in the same set-ups, same place at the same time using the same recordings. I too attended the Stereophile Show and felt the VR4jr presentation was near flawless. Far from fatiguing after 30 minutes("mid-fi hi-fi, unnatural", etc) as Dracule experienced, I felt drawn into the audition by the Jr's warm musical depth, the ambient bubble surrounding vocals and instruments, the well extended and accurate bottom end, colorless midrange and sweet hi freq. The Jrs seemed to handle timbrally complex recordings extremely well while providing impressive bottom weight without congestion. Seamless to my ears, top to bottom.
FWIW, I first heard the $6000 Hyperion in walnut at CES and left the room scratching my head wondering what all the hype, fuss and fanfare was about. The sound was flat, forward, and lacking full-bodied dynamics, impact and weight. I chalked the audition up to the "show experience" (room interaction, cold electronics, etc). I then had my next experience with the $4500 Hyperion 938 in piano high-gloss black (the original and only finish available in this price range)at the Show in NYC. Though the presentation was better, I do find the overall character of the 938's tipped foward. So much so, that the bottom end is left somewhat compressed and lean sounding. It is this driver/crossover "dis-integration" that left me "wanting",, to hear the full orchestral weight and space around the instruments, the chesty impact of the kick drum, the tingling on the souls of my feet while listening to Stevie Ray's "Tin Pan Alley". I think for pop and small combo jazz the Hyperion's would be wonderful. But for Pink Floyd's "DSOTM", or to capture the feel of a orchestra hall, I'd prefer the VR4jrs over the Hyperion's for all musical tastes. I placed my 4Jr order in African Hazelwood last week BTW. Wish I could afford the new VRSr's that I heard at the show in NYC but, at half the price for the Jr's,,,,, I'm a happy camper!
Luciahd, you misquote me. I said the VR4jrs sounded "unnatural" when I auditioned them prior to the NY Highend Show, and I did not say they sound "midfi" if you read my posts carefully. At the Show, as I have stated over and over, the speakers really impressed me driven by the DK. I'm very sensitive to high frequency information - I literally can not walk a city block if I hear car brakes squeak. I hear what I hear, and I couldn't get over the high fequency "grit" of the VR4jr room at the Show.
I can't comment on the wood version of the 938s you heard because I was not there. But I can comment on the black 938s you heard at the Show because I was there. The room was small and I do agree with you to some extent on the bass and high freq performance at the Show. I also heard them at the '94 NY show, and they sounded so different. They were in a larger room, the same size as the VR4jrs were in at this years show, and they were the best sound at the Show for me in '94. So much so I bought them based on the show performance. They're comparable and in some ways better than Apogees and stat setups I was used to because of the dynamics of the 938s.
As for Pink Floyd's DSOTM, I have the SACD version and played it through my 938s using the 70lb class A Junson integrated amp. Let me tell you, the imaging, bass, and dynamics were on par with the VR4jr setup at the Show and without the high frequency "grit" I heard through the VR4jrs. Too bad the Jungson developed a problem just as it was starting to open up, and I had to return it for a replacement. So I can't agree with you when you say the 938s are only good for small jazz combo or pop.
I don't know if the high freq anomaly is inherent in the VR4jrs, but I have heard similar anomaly on different setups through the VR4jrs. May be a really high quality class A amp may get rid of the problem. I have not heard this problem with the higher models from VS.
Hey, if the VR4jrs do it for you, congradulations! I'm happy for you. In the end, it's your ears that matter, not what others say. But it's always fun to have a friendly discourse.
For a speaker (VR4jrs) that have never received a bad professional review, in fact they've all been glowing or better from some sources that do not usually hand out glowing reviews automatically, these speakers are taking some heavy criticism.
Are they really that bad? Are they really Sony speakers with a different name? Are they really speakers that only sound good with certain, limited, expensive electronics?
Most reviews refer to them as "giant killers", performing well above their price range. Is this just hogwash/hype?
What do you guys think?
Great speaker for the money or
just another pretender?
If, by the number of positive reviews about this speaker, the conclusion here is that the VR-4jr's are pretenders, one could postulate that the reviews of them are also. I for one don't believe that equipment reviews are political but the reviewer is linked to the reviewed component.
I've had mine since late October, and think I've finally gotten past the breakin period, as they have changed greatly for the better in the last mont. Either that or the wine is affecting my ears more than I imagine!
They have impressed me more every day with the fine music they reproduce...and I now just enjoy the music and forget about nitpicking the speakers. They aren't perfect, but they help me relax at the end of a long day slinging burgers and that was the whole point of getting them. I'm curious what affect bi-wiring might have , and am even considering bi-amping, just out of curiosity, but all in al they make great music.
We all listen too much to the equipment sometimes,and forget to enjoy the music and ignore the imperfections that all of this gear has, and I think it affects our pleasure that the artists give us. Hell, buy a used, well broken in pair and give em a whirl. If you don't like em, sell them, and look at the small cost as a great in-home demo!
If they really sound like shit to ya, sell them to someone you don't like!!...))
Really, they are a fine speaker...to my ears...not perfect, but what one is?
I think you'll be impress by them, tho
well said! I am not a big Von Schweikert fan but I may try your suggestion in the future.
Brrgr, I agree with you completely about enjoying the music and not get caught up with the equipment. Bravo, very well said!
Well that's what you get in a public forum as apposed to professional reviews. The professional reviews are all positive among different camps, not just one or two magazines that are connected to VS. So, I would put more weight on that than a public forum where anyone can chime in.
The negatives that people have mentioned (aside from the typical "they suck" type comments which most people don't give credibility to) were very small compared to all of the positives about the speakers. It comes down to taste. These speakers are "giant killers", but not everyones taste. They are my taste, but some people such as Dracule1 who is very sensitive to high frequencies may not enjoy the solid high frequency extension on them and should look elsewhere. But all and all I enjoy the music when I listen, and thats why you should audition if at all possible along with other speakers in your price range before making a decision.
Rob, Couldn't agree more. I am , sadly, one of many who like in the boonies, and getting to hear any of this stuff is almost impossible, so I rely like most on reviews and the sage advice of the great people on forums like this. I almost alwaqys buy used, as I can't get to areas where they are on display, so I look for used and if something isnot to my taste, I resell and consider the expense an audition fee. I think in there near future stores will have to charge an ëntrance"fee to let us audition stuff, and try to sell at near the online prices,in order to be competitive. Somehow, they need to compete on price while charging for the additional service they provide, and something like this might work. You might be able to apply the audition fees to the purchase at the store as a way of enticing you to buy there.
The internet has made it tough to compete for many...
Anyway, back to the VR4jr's...I like mine, and hope you find the sound that thrills you.
I have the original VR-4. I have had these hooked to several Large tube mono blocks and large solid states. I can clearly hear the diffrences between designs.To me solid state amplification is not what these were designed for. Although these need big time power to really shine it needs to be tube power the amps that I thought would rule were horrible. (Krell MDA 300). Bets amp ive heard on these are rogue 120's but run out of power. Hurricanes are okay but are much less involving. VTL's have the power but are like a misadjusted EQ. Carys are nice and tubey, rogue zues handle these the best but I miss the immedicy of the 120's.
To think these speakers cost me 1300.00 is something to think about. If you dont like what you hear, you can change it trust me.
For some reason, some people seem bent on bashing the VRjr. I own them, and they are great speakers.
I have very discerning ears, and am a musician. When I listen to audio components, I listen for what sounds more real, more musical. I can nitpick as well as the most critical here, but I listen to the totality of the sound. If something sounds more like the real thing, I can live with small anomalies --- nothing is perfect.
On those who make so many criticisms of this speaker, I wonder what associated equipment they are using, as these speakers ruthlessly reveal the sound of every component in the chain. I also wonder what recordings people are listening to. First and foremost, I use exceptional recordings to make my judgments. Even exceptional recordings have their tonal quirks. For example, some Cheskys are tipped slightly bright and forward balanced, yet have exceptional detail and musicality. Some Verve Jazz recordings are exceptional, but exhibit some brightness in certain ranges. Some tracks on the same recording vary in quality and tonal balance. One must be familiar with the quirks of the recordings used, and adjust one's opinion and evaluation accordingly.
The VRjr has revealed many of these nuanced differences to me, that prior speakers have not. No, they are not perfect, but, most importantly, they provide that certain "clear window on the sound" that is basically coherent. I don't hear the discontinuities in driver integration people are claiming here.
I'm afraid that some audiophiles choose equipment that makes their favorite flawed recordings sound better, rather than carefully choose recordings that are musical and coherent, and then judge the equipment accordingly. In that light, the VRjr reproduces something closer to the musical truth than many other speakers on the market.
I certainly wouldn't lay out $4k for a Chinese-built speaker.
Kevziek, your right on the money with your assessment. They are uncolored and realistic sounding. They will bring out sonic charateristics of the other components.
re: Kevziek's comments -
"Music lovers" generally choose the material (software) they listen to based on these 3 factors in this order:
1st. How much they enjoy the composition/songwriting
2nd. The quality of the performance
3rd. The sonic attributes of the recording
"Audiophiles" one could argue, reverse those priorities.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of music that rates highly by 1. and 2. above was NOT recorded with audiophiles in mind. Therefore, if your analysis is correct, you have just established that these speakers will not produce an experience that appeals to "music lovers" most of the time.
Now "audiophiles" on the other hand, generally are looking to go a little more high end than the JR's which apparently are not finished particularly well and certainly have arguable sonic compromises. (Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned.)
So the audience that will be truly happy with JR's is "audiophiles" who can't presently afford more, or "music lovers" without very discerning ears.
This probably explains why a fair number of JR's started showing up for sale used pretty early on in the product's life/hype-cycle. Which is not to say they don't work for some people - but clearly there are valid reasons that they don't work for others.
Opalchip: This post sought opinions from people who have owned or auditioned the VR-4JR. Have you? Based on your comments I tend to doubt it. Also, a fair number of everything shows up on Audiogon. That's just the nature of this hobby and it means nothing. What do you own and what qualifies you as a judge of these or any speakers?
I think both Kevziek and Opalchip make very good points. Kevziek, a knowledgeable and experienced audiophile, has purchased a product that satisfies his musical needs. I cannot think of a single product that will truly satisfy a majority, let alone all audiophiles. Audiogon attracts people who are looking for the best bang for the buck, giant killer products and based upon the rave reviews and owners' comments the VS4Jr would seem to be a perfect example. The fact that so many then show up for resale simple proves the one size doesn't fit all in the audiophile world. You might not like Opalchip's reasoning, but it's nothing to get defensive about.
It's not that I don't like Opalchip's reasoning. It's just that it is fundamentaly wrong. His logic is confused also. And it would help if he actually listened to the speakers that he has an opinion on. Everything he mentioned was from previous posts in this thread. He mentioned nothing from actual experience.
First of all, his assumptions about audiophiles and music lovers priorities was made up out of his head. Where is it written as fact that those are the priorities?
Secondly, there isn't a speaker out there that can reveal less on bad recordings and reveal more on good recordings. You need quality recordings to and quality equipment to get closer to the music. There is no cure for bad recordings. Some speakers reveal less detail and hide some bad recordings, but then they would have to do the same on good recordings.
he says "(Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned.)" --> an ignorant statement that would disqualify him as anyone with a lick of sense. These all enhance the sound quality, extension, and soudstage. These speakers wouldn't sound as great as they do without them.
Did you ever think that the reason there are so many VR4jr's for sale is because so many people bought them in the first place (you can't sell what you didn't get to begin with) and are upgrading just like a lot of people on Agon. The $4k price point tends to be a middle ground not where people stop and say they've arrived. In fact, I know a couple of people that are moving up to the VR4sr's and that's why they are selling their VR4jr's.
Robm321, you're proving Opalchip's point about audiophile when you say "You need quality recordings to and quality equipment to get closer to the music." Only an audiophile would say that. But then again, you love your speakers, just like Opalchip said you would.
Let's be reasonable folks and agree to disagree. I mean it's not like anyone's claiming the VS4Jrs are as good as the speakers I own.
I wonder how many of the pairs for sale got truely broken in. I know mine changed for the better about a month ago, and I thought I'd gotten them broken in earlier, but they seemed to come to life then. Wish I could put a finger on it, and maybe I just got used to the sound, but they did seem to smooth out and really satisfy me .
And at 53, maybe my hearing is getting worse, and I'm less particular!!Whatever, I'm content, for a while at least.
I love my VR4jr. I would consider myself a music lover, gear head and audiophile. Depends on the time of day or night. So that theory is for shit. My wife could add a few more adjectives when I ignore her when I get into the groove listening to my system :) and beleive me thats very easy to do these days.
These speakers are excellent 4K speakers and great value. They do outperform many speakers costing much more. (to these ears anyway). Are they the best...certainly not...but they do alot more right than wrong, atleast better than any other speaker I have ever owned or seriously auditioned anywhere near their price point.
The key is auxillery equipment. You gotta get serious up front equipment... a Rotel amp will not cut it. (nothing against Rotel, I love their stuff) the thing is these speakers are very revealing and unless you have some very good stuff with good synergy, chances will be that you will be blaming the speakers. Perhaps rightfully so... Designing speakers that need better than average up front equipment might not be the best policy. But I doubt Albert is going to compromise his design to satisfy the average Yamaha owner.
Whooooo.....! First of all, I DO like to stir things up a bit. Sorry for the delay in responding to all this, but I've been out all day.
But 2nd... Who said I haven't heard these? I've got better things to do than yabber about something I have no knowledge or interest in. I was seriously interested in the JR's as bedroom speakers when they first showed up, and I have about 2 hours of daytime cell phone bills talking with Kevin at VS to prove it. Kevin, BTW, was very helpful, very knowledgable, and had some interesting stories, too. The speakers just aren't for me. I didn't say they were bad. Maybe some people had that impression because I used the word "apparently" in regards to the finish? I said it that way because the complaints have been that the polyester satin finish is not durable in the long run, and there's no way I can know that without owning them. An audition doesn't tell you that. "Apparently" means that I'm granting some validity to those claims - not that I've never heard them.
re: Robm - My post was not about MY "logic". I was exposing the logic inherent in Kevziek's post, who said "I also wonder what recordings people are listening to...I'm afraid that some audiophiles choose equipment that makes their favorite flawed recordings sound better, rather than carefully choose recordings that are musical and coherent."
Well, if 95% of the recorded music over the last 50 years sounds better on other speakers, because they're supposedly "not as revealing" of the recordings' drawbacks, well then I'll take the other speakers right quick, Thank You. I was stating that KEVZIEK's OWN internal logic implies the JR's are not for musicphiles. I have no opinion on that except in regards to myself.
I obviously didn't make it very clear, but when I said, "So the audience that will be truly happy with JR's is "audiophiles" who can't presently afford more, or "music lovers" without very discerning ears," I was summarizing with some tongue in cheek, the outcome of Kevziek's reasoning.
"Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned." ---- I'm not going to get into a speaker design argument - been there, done that - but this is far from an ignorant statement. If you think it is, you need to do some study. A ported design actually limits ultimate extension, and a tweeter firing backwards out of phase - well you may like the "enhanced" sound, but there's no argument that it's accurate. 4th order crossovers - No. VS's version of cascaded 1st orders into a 4th order topography - Maybe. But not for me - and that's all I said - "as far as I'M concerned". Again, I didn't say that they suck and anybody who likes them is crazy.
re 9rw: I don't like to respond to that kind of question re: equipment - because it misses the point of the hobby. I don't believe in judging someone's ear by their equipment - which is more often than not determined by their pocketbook. Everyone's ears are different and we are all qualified to judge for ourselves, and post our opinions.
But to answer anyway, since you were so obnoxious about it - I'll just say that the equipment or $$$ end of the equation is not a limiting factor for me. I spend, on average, 3 hours a day, 7 days a week listening - which, like Arkio, doesn't thrill my wife. I've also studied music extensively and play 4 instruments. And I probably have more audiophile and non-audiophile rare vinyl than everyone posting on this thread put together. So there! :)
Anyway - I'm not sure why the JR crowd is so touchy about this, but clearly, they're not for everyone. There ARE quite a few changing hands rather soon after being purchased - I know, because I've been watching. Why, who knows. But it's not because the sellers are wildly in love.
So what? If YOU love 'em keep them - and tell other people you love them - but you don't have to bash people who don't. And vice versa, of course. If anyone interpreted my sarcasm as bashing, I apologize. The original poster asked for opinions. Presumably, that would include both sides of the aisle.