I can certainly comment on the M7 amplifier s having replaced my Ayre VX-R twenty with them - wow... 5 parts in the circuit path yields greater drive and transparency... and the Ayre is no slouch...
the much more affordable M5 are entering production now and Vandersteen dealers should have them soon
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For anyone following this thread, I did ask Richard variation of this question. He posted his response to the “Ask Richard” section of the Vandersteen website: Nicholas (1/13/17): Richard, I miss the regular updates to the "Ask Richard" section! It gave me a reason to visit the Vandersteen website early and often. BTW...really loving my Quatro CTs (John @ Audio Connection is awesome).. I've got a freakishly-flat listening position in-room response down to 24 Hz (falls off a bit at 20 Hz). I'm driving it with an Ayre AX-7e w/ factory installed filters. When I started typing this, I didn't really have a question (other than asking to bring back the "Ask Richard" section...but now that I think about it... Is it possible to quantify the potential performance improvement of an amplifier when the input signal is attenuated by a first-order crossover -3dB @ 100 Hz? Intuitively, the amp will have less current requirements into the load (based on the attenuated input signal below 100 Hz). What decisions did you make when designing the M7-HPA that would differ than someone designing a full-range amp (with respect to the input signal and load demand characteristics)? Glad to be part of the Vandersteen family. - Nicholas Renter HELLO NICHOLAS, THE FAQ IS STILL VERY MUCH IN PLAY BUT WITH SO MANY ARCHIVED NOT MANY QUESTIONS ARE NEW SO I DON’T ANSWER QUESTIONS WHICH ALREADY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED (NOT DUTCH EFFICIENT). IT IS HARD TO QUANTIFY THE IMPROVEMENTS HEARD WHEN THE POWER SUPPLY IS HELPED BY A HIGH-PASS AT 100Hz. YOUR DEALER COULD DEMONSTRATE IT TO YOU BY INSERTING THE HIGH-PASS AND THEN REMOVING IT. IT IS SUBSTANTIAL BUT LIMITED BY HELPING THE POWER SUPPY ONLY. THE M7-HPA IS A VERY DIFFERENT STORY AND ITS ADVANTAGES ARE HUGE BECAUSE THE CIRCUIT AND POWER SUPPLY ARE OPTIMIZED FOR HIGH-PASS ONLY. MANY FEATURES HAVE BEEN INCLUDED WHICH COULD NOT BE IF THE AMPLIFIER WERE TO BE FULL-RANGE. I WILL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE TO HOLD YOU UNTIL WE GET THE WHITE PAPER. A FULL-RANGE AMPLIFIER HAS TO HAVE MULTIPLE OUTPUT DEVICES IN ORDER TO HANDLE THE CURRENT NEEDED FOR THE WOOFERS. MULTIPLE OUTPUT DEVICES (TUBE OR SOLID STATE) SMEAR EACH OTHER SLIGHTLY BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE EXACTLY THE SAME. IN THE M7-HPA VERY FEW OUTPUT DEVICES ARE NEEDED AND NO EMITTER RESISTORS ARE USED CAUSING NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT IN DYNAMICS AND TRANSPARENCY.
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I also use the Pangea cables, 9 & 14 se. |
@nrenter Just the information I needed on the Pangea AC cables, thanks! |
I ran the 7 mk2 for a long weekend with loaner arc ref75 se while the Ayre was back at factory w Twenty series upgrade.
really sweet amp !
i think if I had a smallish room at moderate levels without a lot of rock music and air conditioning it would be on my short list.
listened to some VTL monoblocks the other day that were impressive.
thanks for the info on Pangea cords.
I think Richard thinks highly of the wire and welded/ mounded connection integrity of the factory provided cord.. but is open to possibility that aftermarket cords offer.
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No problem with the stock cables, per-se. I'm sure they successfully supply power. Is there an audible difference between the stock power cabled and the Pangea? Don't know. But the Pangea AC 9 MKII sure LOOK bad-ass, and isn't that what really matters? They're like a firehose connected to the wall. I could fend off a band of ninjas with a few swings of a 1.5 meter cable. Plus, I've blown $135 on dumber things. The AC-14SE cables are MUCH more flexible, and look a lot better than the stock cables. I have AC-14SE power cables connected to the rest of my components. |
Thanks for the information. The dealer is going to set them up but I want to learn the process myself. Is there a problem with the power cables that come with the Quatro? I am so tired of thick and inflexible chords and cables. I know this may be audiophile heresy but when I reconfigure all my equipment in my new audio cabinet I am going to replace any cable or power chord that cannot easily be positioned. I know that cables can make a difference but I am tired of the rats nest of garden hoses behind all my equipment. :-)
We are neighbors. I'm in Denton. |
@randyhat given the rolloff required for the powered subs in the Quatros, the difference of a few 10's of Watts may not be a significant factor. I'm over in Flower Mound (and I set up my Quatro CTs on my own). Once you know the "tricks" it's pretty easy to do.
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@goheelz, the taper on the IEC end of the Pangea Audio AC 9 MKII power cable allows it to fit easily. The downside to this cable is that it's very heavy and not very flexible. |
Randyhat, Vandersteen recommends 40-200wpc for the Quatro's, so 75 should be in the sweet spot-especially if you are high passing to the subs.
I think one of the nice things about Vandy's is that they play well with a lot of equipment.
I am in transition to an Atma-Sphere amp and preamp with the Treo's. I never used tubes before, so this is going to be a new realm I'm entering. After 30 years, I had to give it a try. |
Interesting discussion. I am awaiting delivery of a pair of Quatro CT and am beginning to evaluate my amplifier needs. In fact I started a separate thread asking for advice on amp/preamp options with the Quatro CT. I wish my Vandersteen dealer also carried Ayre as I am intrigued by this combo. They primarily pair the Vandersteens with ARC amps. As much as I am pre-disposed to SS amps, I am curious about the ARC REF 75SE. I am thinking that 75 watts might be all I need...especially considering the high pass filtering will be relieving the amp of it's deeper bass duties. |
Agreeing with bdp24 above. ARC, Ayre and McCormack are three brands that have often been associated with Vandersteens over time. And yes, many Vandy dealers carry one of those brands. I'm still struck by my interaction with Vandersteen 1ci and Quicksilver tube amps. There was so much there there! |
There are a fair number of Vandersteen dealers who are also Audio Research dealers, the pairing of Richard's speakers and ARC tube amps being a long-time favorite. I've heard that coupling at many shows, and at length at Brooks Berdan Ltd. and Optimal Enchantment in S. California. |
You now have a world of amazing amplifiers open to you !
i ran my 5A with SS Ayre, a 1961MAC 240 and REF 75 tube amp.
and I use an Ayre VX-R Twenty with my 7 mk2.
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@nrenter You mention getting Pangea 9-gauge AC cables for your Vandersteen speakers. Did these fit the low profile IEC plugs on the Vandy's? A lot of AC cords don't . . .
thanks! |
I think it gives you a lot more flexibility for experimentation.
I'm very happy with my AX-7e. Of course, I'm interested what an Ayre upgrade would do, but I think $12k of new music would bring more satisfaction than $12k of new hardware.
I do feel like my break-in process took much longer than expected (assuming predominantly the components downstream of the high-pass filter). When I bought the Quatros, I also bought Pangea 9-gauge power cables for each speaker, 2 pair of Audioquest CV-8 speaker cables, Audioquest Colorado XLR cables for all my sources (along with Pangea power cables) and an Ayre L-5xe power conditioner. Oh, and the new crossover capacitors dropped into the AX-7e. These probably all play a factor.
It's interesting how loudly you can play the system without any sense of strain.
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Glad you asked this question, as I'd been pondering it myself. Doesn't it make sense that going bi-amped with Vandersteen powered loudspeakers is an invitation to go with tubes for the upper range? I say this as a curious Vandersteen 5A owner with a SS McIntosh stereo amp in the mix. |
I would contact Mr. Vandersteen and ask for his opinion. There's nothing better than from the 'horse's mouth. |
I'm not sure it affects choices so much as dynamic range.
Since bass signals soak up most of the voltage swing, eliminating that from the amp's output means all of the voltage/power swing is available for the mid and treble. Also, the amp acts more "stiffly" than otherwise. Like you mention the high current requirements are reduced, so the power supply sags less.
In general, no, you don't need massive amps for the top part of a bi-amped system. As for the rest of the quality, I don't know. :) I mean I really like the sound of Ayre, but bi-amped, Parasound A23's may work just as well.
Best,
Erik
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