How about a list of speakers that are time and phase coherent? Thiels and what else?


How about a list of speakers that are time and phase coherent?
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How about Vandersteen and Green Mountain Audio.  

Just my personal sense of aesthetics, but the top of line Vandies look like Dr. Who Daleks and the GMA Calypso HDs look like one-eyed preying mantis aliens.  Just my humble opinion.  lol

BIF
  

No longer in business but:
Dunlavy Audio Labs
Meadowlark Audio (Actually they are now back in business but I'm not sure they are still doing time/phase coherent speakers).
Quad ESL 63s I believe are time/phase coherent, I seem to remember.


i prefer to call my Vandersteen 7 mk 2 Lord Vader
the smaller monoblocks also in Audi Phantom black Pearl are Luke....
Yes prof, the Quad 63. The Eminent Technology LFT-8b, with it's magnetic-planar midrange drivers reproducing 180Hz up to 10kHz without a crossover. The dynamic woofer and ribbon tweeter are employed below and above that (respectively) via 1st order filters. Then there are the SoundLab, Sanders, and Music Reference ESL's, the Magneplanars, and many other dipole planars. Can't forget the Linkwitz LX521. 
I still have a pair of the original Green Mountain Audio Calypso (in storage), and they were excellent.
Green mountain n Audio 1st order speakers are very good.
looks wise subjective. Vandersteen  Audio , not positive on all models  .
Any ther vote for Green Mountain Audio.. I have several models in my stable.... amazing stuff from a brilliant designer.
Voxativ loudspeakers
@prof 
The new Meadowlark speakers are coherent. They are fully active with onboard DAC and they have amps for each driver. The older Meadowlark offerings were a more traditional coherent speaker. Like the newer Meadowlark, the Gaylen Sanders are fully active coherent speakers.I believe the Kii speakers are also.

Others are Dunlavy, Ascendo, Green Mountain Audio, Intuitive Design, Essence, and Mosaic Acoustics. 
A few of my vintage speakers are time and phase coherent:

1. Spica TC-50
2. Vandersteen Signature
3. Dahlquist DQ-10
My PSI (née Revox) active studio monitors, which are Swiss-built and 20 years newer, top even my Thiel 2 2’s for coherence, transparency, and pinpoint imaging. And I’m VERY happy with my Thiels. Were I ever to replace the Thiels, PSI would be my first choice.
Some of the Gryphons I believe (don't quote me though)
DCM Time Windows! I have the 1A's and a pair of Time Frame 500's. The name says it all! Thank you Steve Eberbach for some great speakers!
And I'll add my Ohm Walsh Sound Cylinders! Amazing speakers - 3-D imaging from anywhere in the room! Thank you John Strohbeen for carrying forward the legacy of Lincoln Walsh!
Take Wilson off the list. They are not time and phase coherent.

I promise you Voxativ loudspeakers are not time and phase coherent, either. 
Lastly, let us not forget the LS3/5A's. I have an 11 ohm pair of Rogers (39269A and B). Astonishing SQ from a small box! Still a sought-after speaker of many audiophiles!
LS3/5A's are not time and phase coherent either. The LS3/5a V2's step response indicates that the tweeter is connected in inverted acoustic polarity, the woofer in positive. 

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/bbc-ls35a-loudspeaker-stirling-measurements#k1h3jRIXhiljHVoC.99

Maybe we need to revisit what is meant as being time and phase coherent. 
I think that Reference 3A speakers are time and phase aligned.
Quad 57's! Peter Walker's marvels! True, they look like space heaters - but they have an overall sense of "rightness" that eludes many of today's big-buck designs!
roberjerman,

Are you sure about the 57s being time/phase coherent?

I thought it wasn’t until the 63s that they became time/phase coherent, with the driver made in to delayed concentric rings.
The Reference 3As aren't either, simply because the woofer is run w/o a crossover and out of its pistonic range. 
Ohm Walsh Sound Cylinders claim to be, but I’d need to see the measurements to believe it. 
Maggie’s are not time and phase coherent. Single driver speakers are not (necessarily) time and phase coherent. Planars and electro-stats are not (necessarily) time and phase coherent. 

Just trying to stop this from becoming a “speakers we like” thread. 
Some people may be fooled into thinking something like the Wilson Speakers would be mentioned in a list like this because they make a big deal of time-coherence with their stepped baffles or sloped design. But they aren’t (as I understand) time/phase coherent/first order designs.
After a few glasses of whiskey, all of them are time phase coherent.
Dahlquist DQ-10s were not time coherent. The schematics of its crossover circuit.show high-order filters.
Holiday inn has whiskey 

@roberjerman.  I want to see a list of all the cool gear you own !!!!
In case you have to eventually leave the hotel,
try most of the Songs faber line.
I have Green Mountain Audio Continuum 3 with the HX crossover..They educated my listening on what phase and time coherence sounds like...They are great ones.
I have Green Mountain Audio Continuum 3 with the HX crossover..They educated my listening on what phase and time coherence sounds like

You're not hearing time coherence. What you're hearing is the result of all the important factors that have been sacrificed to achieve time coherence. 

The use of first order crossover causes an unnecessarily wide overlap to supposedly achieve phase coherence. This creates lobing and unnecessary stress on the drivers. The reality is that no woofer can do high frequencies. Thats what tweeters are for. No tweeters can do bass. That's what woofers are for.

If you give me your green mountains, I'll make them sound ten times better just by upgrading the crossover. 

Most people agree that frequency response is an important factor. Everybody can hear a peak or dip at any frequency. The same cannot be said of time coherence. 

Time coherence is at worst a myth.


If you give me your green mountains, I'll make them sound ten times better just by upgrading the crossover.
Maybe you should design, build and market your own speakers. Then you won't have to spend any more time looking for the perfect sound as you asked for in another thread. You know what sound you want and you feel as if you are a genius in respect to speaker design. DIY would seem to be your perfect answer to your perfect sound.

Most people agree that frequency response is an important factor. Everybody can hear a peak or dip at any frequency. The same cannot be said of time coherence.

Time coherence is at worst a myth.
Not everyone can hear peaks and dips in frequency response. There are any number of speakers with incredibly ragged response that people love that prove that beyond a doubt. In the same vein, there are many that find the virtues of time coherence indispensable to their listening. The statements of absolutes are ridiculous.
DIY would seem to be your perfect answer to your perfect sound.
You could be right about that.
Not everyone can hear peaks and dips in frequency response.
I was referring to severe peaks and dips.

there are many that find the virtues of time coherence indispensable to their listening.

If time coherence was that important every manufacturer would be doing it.
And every audiophile would insist on it.
That's not the case 

I was referring to severe peaks and dips.
It is still not true. 
If time coherence was that important every manufacturer would be doing it.
And every audiophile would insist on it.
Another untrue statement. It is difficult to do correctly for the manufacturer, and many people have not heard it done correctly. There are also plenty of people that just don't care or find that it doesn't matter to them. That doesn't make them wrong or right, just as wanting time and phase coherence in a speaker doesn't make those that enjoy it wrong or right. To say that is not a valid approach to building speakers is just not true.
kenjit,

It’s not like you are bringing up a problem that designers of time/phase coherent speakers have never considered. Obviously, any good speaker designer going for time/phase coherence is going to design with those problems in mind.

This is why Thiel, for instance, designed and manufactured their own drivers specifically suited for their goals. Their last midrange driver was a marvel of engineering, and purportedly extended up to around 20kHz with good linearity. (I forget the specs for the tweeter but I remember they were amazing too). Not to mention all the specific engineering put in to specific voice coil designs, motor systems for low distortion, etc.

I’ve owned many speaker designs, and auditioned many, and the Thiel 2.7 and 3.7s are simply the most coherent I’ve ever heard especially in the mids to treble (and exceptional from mids down in to bass). As well as being super smooth.   They were very highly lauded in review after review for incredible clarity, smoothness, neutrality, dynamics etc.  

Whether the time/phase coherence gives an advantage is one thing (I can only say the Thiels image with a specificity and density that I’ve rarely heard before). But the idea that other design parameters must necessarily be sacrificed to achieve it, in terms of the overall performance or sound, doesn’t seem to be true. (As John Atkinson also said after being very impressed when measuring the Thiel 3.7s).


Had a Meyer engineer bring a SIM over. He measured my horns and said he's never seen a phase response that good w/o DSP.

They're Exemplar Horns.
Hold on a second while I get my head out of its' listening clamp...

Most timing issues have to do with the same signal reaching different drivers, and can be mostly corrected by a properly designed crossover.  If the speakers sound good, I would not be too concerned about "time and phase coherence".
On the other hand, if you prefer to run test equipment (and music is mostly just a bother), then you may find hours of enjoyment testing for time coherence.

From that speaker design article by JA, on time/phase coherence:


"Many loudspeakers are claimed by their manufacturers' marketing departments to be time-coherent. There are also a number of speakers that have sloped front baffles, implying that they are time-coherent. However, its step response immediately gives you an indication of whether or not a loudspeaker is time-coherent (on the chosen measurement axis).

And almost all loudspeakers are not. Along with false claims of high sensitivity, false claims of time coherence are among the commonest lies in high-end audio."


We're lookin' at you, Wilson Audio.

;-)


Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/measuring-loudspeakers-part-two-page-3#v9HvcSQGM5O3Ciq3.99
i dont know anything about out of phase midranges, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn with whiskey, so I am a speaker designer !


Well as usual I learned a lot, great links shared by glow_worm and prof (always nice to see your entries prof!), but perhaps most important is that some Holiday Inns have whiskey; I need to find those as opposed to the ones where I have been staying!


Intuitive Design Summit Loudspeakers are time and phase coherent and do things that very few speakers I have heard are able to do.  Still one of my all time favorite speakers.  I wish more manufacturers paid attention to this.


Here's a nice article by Richard Hardesty.  I didn't see it previously listed.  Apologize if it was.

From my listening experience, I'm a big believer in time and phase coherence in speaker design. 

https://www.vandersteen.com/media/files/APJ%20Files/APJ13_Proof.pdf
@ musicloversaudio

Wilson audio


The biggest hoax in the industry. And the dealers believe that… How sad ☹
Acoustic Zen loudspeakers are time and phase coherent. Robert Lee has a white paper on the subject. 
In addition to great speakers, Green Mountain makes good coffee.
ATC use phase correction in their active speakers. The overall result approaches linear phase with smooth phase behaviour across the crossover. No speaker will be perfectly linear phase as mechanical drivers aren’t linear phase.

That said, minimum phase filters and MQA are best avoided as they introduce significant phase distortion by delaying the arrival of high frequencies vs low frequencies. The characteristic effect of MQA is most noticeable on the plucking of guitar strings which sound disconcertingly unnatural - the transient of the string being plucked seems to start at a lower pitch than is natural. Minimum phase filters and MQA muck up natural timbre - hardly surprising given the way they shift phase around.