Just to give a different perspective so readers here can hear it all. I know of three owners who sold this dac within 3 months of ownership. I know of another two having issues with the unit and it having to be repaired.
The previous owners prefer the the top model PS audio and the Luxman DA06 dac. I happen to own the DA06. These owners stated the Yiggy could sound bright and over detailed as the unit became fully burned in. These are folks with good ears and systems.
The point, listen to this dac before buying based on a review only!
This is a rather disappointing revelation.
Grannyring, something about your post doesn't sit right...
First, you know well that Schiit sells direct, so there are no dealers where people can "listen before buying", unless they get lucky and know someone else in their city that bought one. So why say that?
But second, and more importantly, Schiit has a 15-day return policy, with a very modest restock fee, so in fact it's already established that people CAN listen before buying. And in actuality, every single purchase is a 15-day audition before it becomes an actual final transaction. So listening before buying is built in, and goes without saying.
As for knowing 3 guys who all have good ears...I know guys too, but I've never accompanied any of them to an Audiologist and/or asked to see the results of their hearing examination.
But I'm sure the Luxman sounds fantastic, I have no doubt about that. It's also $5K, more than double the price of the Schiit Dac. But what's an extra $2700 between friends, right?
Full disclosure: I do not now nor have I ever owned a Schiit product, and I have no plans to purchase one in the immediate future. But I do enjoy DAC discussions, walks in the moonlight, puppies wearing hats, and strawberry flavored cream cheese.
Grannyring, it's horses for courses. My system isn't bright and I want an R2R ladder DAC, either the Yggy or a design that uses four BB PCM1704-K chips. But I see why others might not like these choices.
Bcgator, you can buy the Luxman for $2700 on Amazon. Japanese model.
You can buy them used as I did for $2200 here on the Gon. 15 days is not enough time for the unit to break-in and I find there is something wrong with your post.
I said up front this is just another view from other aphiles. The Computer Aphile reviewer is just another Aphile also. Do you approve more of his ears?
No magic in the R2R ladder, just another design. It is always about how well a particular design is executed. Yes some may love the Yiggy, some may not as it always comes down to system synergy.
The owners did share that the unit turns brighter as the unit burns in. After 400 hours one owner just did not care for the abundant detail.15 day trial will not be enough time. So if you can hear a fully burned in unit, then that would be best.
I have read so much praise about the Yiggy, so naturally with the several folks I know who either had build issues or did not like the unit after burn in time, I felt I should share this reality. Just the facts for the Audiogon community to consider.
I am sure many owners will like the dac and hopefully have no issues.
I thought it was a good review and refreshingly unusual, in that Chris compared the Yggy to $15K DACs that he considers to be his references. And the Yggy in no way fell short.
Chris Connaker supposedly had the review unit for over 2 months, and did not find it to be "bright" or too detailed, and instead was rhapsodic about its sound. Although he is just one reviewer, he has significant breadth of knowledge and experience of the entire realm of digital audio. He speaks with some authority, so this review should not be discounted.
You're making my point, Grannyring. No, I don't approve more of the Audiophile reviewer's ears. Just as I hope nobody on this forum decides to buy, or not buy, an item because you know three guys with "good ears". I'm sure you'll agree that as hearsay goes, that takes the cake.
The irony is you pointing out that you know people who've sold their Schiit DAC. Meanwhile, you bought your Luxman DAC here on Audiogon used - which means someone didn't like it and sold it to you, just like people have sold the Schiit. See where I'm going with this?
15 days = 360 hours. If that's not enough for proper burn-in, I'm selling all of my possessions and going to live in the woods with the wolves.
Your post just seemed like a mild case of thread-crapping, just my opinion. Maybe others feel differently.
Grannyring was just making a pretty valid point, geez. No need to jump on him like he stole something from you.
I do have a new Yggdrasil running in, actually. It's a nice unit but I think perhaps the R2R vs D-S DAC thing has become a bit of a fad, which the Yggy is riding a nice wave of, and it's good to have undiluted opinions to temper the growing expectations of prospective buyers.
The Yggy is indeed very detailed (which I have no problem with; the more detail the better as long as it's smooth, which it is here) but my one possible hangup on it thus far is I wish it had a little more bass impact -- I think that kind of echoes what Grannyring heard from his friends. And I've heard a lot of gear myself...I know what constitutes a nice balanced sound.
Mulveling, please share your impressions as Yggy's evolves during/after break in. I'm particularly interested in its air and sound staging.
Bcgator, you dont seem very active here, but certainly do not like a different view it seems. Three guys I hang with are seasoned solid aphiles like myself. You just like play here it seems.
I am actually trying to help the community. Very few will run the unit 24/7, especially folks like me that use it with a cd spinning transport.You can continue to crap on me, but I am just sharing experiences for the benifit of the community. Crap on!
I have a PSA PerfectWave Mk-II and tried the PSA DirectStream. The PerfectWave beat that hands down. Then I tried a Yggy. Even with no break-in time, it was better than the PSA units. I've had it now for a month and, finally, the bass is catching up with the rest mids & treble. Up to 3 weeks in, the bass sounds a bit shy, but is now well integrated.
I have to say, I've never heard the resolution of leading edge transients of all types as I can now with the Yggy. The quality of brushed cymbals, stringed instruments, piano, drums, and brass (glorious) are immediately obvious.
Just my two cents from a very happy camper.
The stock Yggy is perhaps the best sounding PCM only DAC in its price range.....very good value. However, a few simple inexpensive mods can take it to another level. These DIY mods can be done in a couple of hours. Please see my website for details: http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html
With these simple mods the Yggy is more detailed, more air, better stereo separation, lower grain, more dynamic, more pure, etc. etc.
My friend, who did the mods shown on my website wants to send me his Yggy to put my zero feedback class A buffer/shunt regulator power supply on the output along with a much larger power transformer and better diodes. If this ever gets done then he might have a world class DAC.....there are, of course, even more mods that could be done....just the beginning.
I love that you make these mods available Rick. Very nice of you. I have done your speaker binding post mod on my amps and speakers to great effect. I also use your modified Wimma caps and grounding tweaks.
Your new SS amp looks very interesting also.
I bet your dac mods do wonder here!
Kernelbob. If you gave up on the PSA DS without at least a minimum of 800-1000 hours break-in... then for sure you missed out on a superb dac.
With the Yale Final OS uploaded...it is a no-brainer.Come on over and have a listen. ;)
Aolmrd1241, Funny as that is exactly what another PS Audio DS owner said to me after replacing the Yggy with the DS.
So many factors. I guess patience is hard for us Aphiles!
Thanks Grannyring....I am afraid it will do no good to anyone. No one wants to tweak....too afraid of hurting it, loosing warrantee or loosing resale value. Of the 250 or so Yggys sold only two people have even taken the cover off. One changed the fuse to good effect and the other, my friend, did all the mods I suggested. If the Yggy were $1000 then more would take a risk. So, we are left with Yggy great for the money but will never be really great unless tweaked and no one will tweak. Its just too bad the Schiit people are not open to tweaks....I could help them make a super version and they could sell it and still retain warrantee and no fears for anyone. Oh well, just the way it is. No one will ever hear how good a DAC it could be...except maybe my friend. Even more expensive DACs will never get modded by anyone. I have never, ever seen a product I could not make sound considerably better. There are many other people that can do the same and with different and similar skills.
I am one of the few that mods and tweaks gear of all types and price points. Amazing what can be done to improve "stock" gear. Thanks again for your site and postings on this subject over the years.
This is only my assumption, so please Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am).
I personally take what Chris Conneker says with a grain of salt. I'm not doubting he's a music lover, but my instincts tell me that he is a computer geek first and an audio enthusiast second. He is tech guy who started a site because he noticed that we were in the Golden Age of digital audio and dacs and computer storage of music were the next big thing.
Just my opinion,
Not saying that he can't tell the difference between a good dac and a great dac. Just saying that he may not have the golden ears that people think he has. Also like someone mentioned earlier, everyone hears differently so.....
Re my audition of the PSA DS. I ran it non-stop for two and a half weeks, feeding it music 24/7. The things about it that I didn't like did not change at all over those two weeks. I understand how DACs are sensitive to break-in, but I frankly found the DS to be unlistenable.
The highs did have a bit better detail than my PDS PWD-II, but the midrange and bass sounded like the music was coming through a fog. The bass on the DS was also not well articulated. The DAC actually gave a sense of pressure in my ears (I know of at least one other customer that had the same experience). I suspect that this is the noise shaping that pushes noise into the ultrasonic range. My amps and speakers extend to 100k, if that matters.
BTW, the latest version of the Yale software had been installed. On return of the DAC, PSA checked it out and said that the DAC was working perfectly.
In my system, the Yggy easily sounds better than the PSA DS or the PWD-II. The Yggy's handling of transients and the sense of instrumental timbre is something special.
Kernelbob, thanks for sharing your impressions. I definitely would not buy the PSA DS based on many credible reports. It may be designed for bright systems?
Re the PSA DS, I didn't find fault with the frequency balance (at least in the 20 to 20k range), so no, I don't think that it was specifically designed for bright systems.
@Grannyring, I don't look at someone's activity level on a forum and use that as an indicator of their intelligence or experience, but YMMV. And I welcome dissenting experience - I simply prefer that it be of the firsthand variety, but again that's just me.
As for assuming that people will not run the unit 24/7, in fact Schiit has emphasized that the unit should not be powered off. It should be run 24/7 - once powered on for the first time, it should be left on. That's directly from Schiit.
Keeping a dac on will do nothing to break it in. Need to pass a signal through it and many are not going to spin CDs 24/7. Just to much time on the transport for many of us. Computer audio...sure.
My experience is different. I find just having a DAC on will do most of the burn in (67.354689%...he he). The current running through most components in a class A circuit is constant. This constant voltage and current will burn in most power supply capacitors (which take the most time to burn in). The signal path resistors, and filter caps, transistors and tubes and especially the output caps in a tube unit will need to have signal run through them to fully burn them in. But even the output caps in a tube DAC will have high voltage on them....helping them burn in without a signal moving through them.
Having a signal go through the DAC while it is on will improve the sound further but most of the burn in can be done by just leaving it on. You need to have a load on the DAC output when burning in and playing music...this way some current is being modulated through the output stage as it has a load to draw some current with. Just keep your preamp or amp off and play music. Your preamp/amp has a load resistance to ground that helps pull current from the DAC.
BTW, this is the same with all electrical components (sources, preamps, amps). When I first assembled my first set of NCore NC400 amp modules and listened I wondered what the fuss what about....not good sound. Then I just left them on all night and 20 hours later listened again and....what a difference. Now I understood how good these modules were. No music was being played through the amps. However, days of playing music through the amp will bring more improvement. So, in the beginning (first 1000 hours) leave the component on as much as possible and play music through it as much as possible. Speaker cables and speakers need to be played for them to break in. There are some speaker cable burn in devices...but they are costly.
Yes indeed I was talking about the signal path which is key to the sound also!
I have one of the first batch that shipped; got my order in about 30 minutes after the Yggdrasil ordering on Schiit's site went live.
Fresh out of the box, I was hearing subtle things on familiar music that I hadn't noticed before. I tend to value detail… I want to hear whatever is on the recording, so I am happy with this DAC. Don't notice any bass lacking, but that can totally depend on how the song was mixed/mastered.
It's been powered on continuously since the end of April, with a few brief exceptions when I was swapping wires.
It replaced a Meitner MA-1 (which replaced a W4S). For my ears & system, it's a better match. The Meitner and Schiit approaches to DAC design are very different, to be sure.
No magic in the R2R ladder, just another design. Bill I will have to disagree with your statement. As you know I am building DHT DACs now and previously I was using the ESS Sabre32 Reference (ES9018) DAC chip. It sounded fantastic until we tried the R2R. In our DAC there was no going back. Much more analog, in fact we have been beating most very high priced analog set-ups as we are now out there demonstrating the dac. I also heard I think an early version of the Yggdrasil DAC with CEC 3N transport. I did not find the unit bright sounding but the CEC probably helps in that area. Nice dac maybe for the price but IMO, much left to be desired.
I agree with you that a R2R DAC is a better sounding solution, have you tried Soekris DAC
Seems very interesting
yes I have used that in my DHT DAC.
proof is in the listening. R2R may or may not be the best it depends on the total build! Power supply is just as important folks, perhaps more so!
Yes indeed Power is key, for both analog and digital, and to my ears R2R is so far the best DAC implementation. Olympia DX DAC
Unfortunately I find that most spend all their energy on the digital side of the DAC leaving the Analog and associated power supply as an after thought. Above have a BB 1704UK DAC implementation available as either 4 or 8 DAC chip version, ALL FET I/V conversion, ALL FET Analog Filter and a ALL FET output buffer stage CMR noise reduction. IMO as good as it gets :-)
And yes I do make them
Best dad I have owned or heard is my current Luxman DA06. Not even sure if it is a R2R day to be honest?
Peter that is a impressive power supply for the dac.
Bill you know I am ready when you are. Read the audio circle link Pat started. I am going at this one by one right now but the R2R was a big jump in improvement and you know that my power supply section and analog section has no real competition. You know me I live only by DHT designs. The phono section will be finished this week. Let me know when you are ready. Happy Listening. Peter
BTW the luxman is 32 bits PCM data
Not sure the DHT is up to the Luxman! Ha! I love this dac so much.
Bidkidz, I read the thread and wow! Sounds like the new DHT dac may be something very, very special. Thanks!
I'm the one who sold the Yggdrasil and got the DHT Dac
Bill, as I demonstrate the DAC from person to person, the only question that remains is how much. That ususally takes less than 60 seconds. The last few people sold there current very high priced DACs to buy mine. It took a long time to get here and nobody out there competes with what this DAC is doing. You have to experience it for yourself. Guys are selling their analog rigs and converting to digital but I just finished the phono stage for the ones who still want to pop & click! I don't want to sound like a big jerk but when ones goes out, it does not come back.
What DAC chips are you using and are you using a digital filter? Curious.
I'm finding it hard to understand why it is okay for bigkidz to come apeddling his wares in a thread of a competing product. Blatantly extolling the virtues of his product without a care in the world for the grossly unethical stench it brings. First off, please disclose yourself (full name), plus your company name, as well as the actual name of this DHT DAC of your's that has monks turning into Wall Street traders, and nunneries turning into brothels.