Hi End Pre-Amp shoot out in central jersey?


Hi,

I have recently heard the DarTZeel pre in my system as compared to my highly optioned MA1 MK3, and thought it might be interesting to compare a few pre-amps.

I would be interested in hearing the ARC Ref3, the Dart again, as well as the latest from BAT, Halcro etc. Any takers?

Might not be a scientific experiment, but we might have fun and learn a thing or two.

Best,

Ron
rlips
I assume you mean line stages here? Or did you also compare the phono stages?

Can you share the differences, pros/cons of the Dart vs. the MA1 in your system? It's good to get a feel of these parameters to know how subsequent line stages compare to this "reference".
.
I would love to be there but I'm in Southern Calif. I'm pretty loyal to ARC preamps, and have been pretty closed-minded about buying other brands. But I would've jumped at the chance to see firsthand how my Ref3 stacks up against other well regarded preamps.
.
I have no Bat,
No Hallcro,
I know a preson with the Dartz,
I do have a one off ultramodded ARC SP6B last altered circa 1980, with a phonon that has approx. 200db of gain. The gain selection is soldered in the high position the switch byopassed. To get somethging resembling a noise floor it is clearly to much for but about one in a thousand 12ax7s quiet enough to tolerate. This kind of ultra low noise tube has yet to classified there are only few electron particle accelerators large enough toidetect the subtle vibrations that each tube naturally resonates at. Then assembling six would need six such tubes in a constant state long enough to find them makes it imposssible. It is also best siuted to nanovolt output cartridges the upside is that no a step up transformer is needed.
I have a very rich almost class A sounding ARC power amp the rare D100B. A solid state amp that was given up for dead a few years ago but judiscious small quick fixes have kept it going. Also circa 1981.
Absolutely nothing by ARC starting with the word reference. I have pleasant system of modestly priced gear with very few extravagances I think it sound great.
The one truly extrvagant part of my audio gear is a pile of 6 to 8 linear tracking turntables most don't work or if working don't sound very good.
So that leaves my good tube collecton. Do you have any gear that uses 6SN7s. I have a large variety and some of the best. 5751s, 7316s and other 12AU7 subs, And finally a goodly number of 12AT7s, 801s TFKNs, Brimar T brand 6060s and so on.
Finally some good copper braided wire reminding one of Jena lab cables.
Sorry but I'd have to refer you to the NJ Audiophile group. I was a member breifly.
Re: 05-17-09: Mechans

Very strange post.

Regards,
Rlips, Yowsa! that's one hell of an amazing system and listening room you have.
Hi,

Sorry, the pre-amp is the MP1, not the MA1, my error. I am holding off publishing my review of the Dart vs. the Atma until I can hear it again. To be fair, it was too short a session and one of the pre-amps was cold while the other was warmed up.

And yes, it would be for line stage only as I do not have an analog set up.

Would be nice to get an ARC Ref 3 in the mix as well. Any takers??

Thanks!

Ron
Well, you could look in the clubs section of this forum and contact the NJ Audio Society. Some of those guys may be interested. I was a long-time member, but now live in AZ.

Good luck to you!
Hi,

That's some love you've put into your system! Well done.

I too live in Central Jersey and have a Lamm L1 that I'd be happy to add to the shootout. But I don't know if that's high-end enough for you. Separately as far as Mechans goes, I only have one word; Wow.

Let me know if you are interested. Cheers
Hi, Ron!
I live in Basking Ridge, and would like to take a part of the event, but I think that my Cary SLP-05 is not on the level you are interested in.
Thank you.
Boris.
Hi Seldon,

I'd love to hear the Lamm, I've heard some of his power amps before and thought them very musical.

I am not sure what to make of Mechans post either, but hey, it's a public forum and everyone should have the right to express themselves.

Best,

Ron
OK,

I have to ask what is a [b] phonon that has approx. 200db of gain.[/b]?

200dB is a gain of 8,000,000,000.

dave
I think Mechans is referring to a phono stage?
Rlips, your room/system is *very* impressive! I hope you post your shoot-out results on this thread. I too have a Lamm L1 and would be interested in reading about your shootout if Seldon participates.
I think Mechans is referring to a phono stage?
NOT! Very very few phono stages, new or old, go much beyond 60db. And nearly all that have this much gain achieve it with a step-up transformer which takes a typical MM stage of 35-40db up another 20 to achieve 55-60db to support medium-output MC's.

db = 20Log(Av), where Av is the voltage gain. A gain of 200db would be 10 billion; the 8 billion noted above is close enough.

To imagine a line stage with an output of 1v to drive many amps to serious levels, and do this with a phono/line gain of 200db would imply the phono cartridge has an output of less than a nanovolt. This is silly. And to achieve any kind of phono gain beyond 60 db or so with tubes and deal with the noise issue almost requires miracles....something the SP6 is not capable of, heavily modded or not.

And now back to the main program.
Jafox,

I know that (the EE in me figured it out as well) but was trying to be diplomatic. As you say, and now back to our regularly scheduled program;)..............
As Mechans said (tongue in cheek, I assume)
This kind of ultra low noise tube has yet to classified there are only few electron particle accelerators large enough toidetect(sic) the subtle vibrations that each tube naturally resonates at....It is also best siuted(sic) to nanovolt output cartridges the upside is that no a step up transformer is needed.
Pretty damn funny when you think of it, though
The whole post is written as hyperbole. The gain is ridiculous though for the MC circuit it really is in excess of 70. The line stage isn't exactly low key either. The phono on ther sp6B is legendary as one of the first that could really amplify that small an output signal It really It really is extraordinary but very few including myself can use IT well. My Dynevector puts out 2.0 millvolts the record must be cleaner than a clean room and each mote of dust sounds like a giant explosion. The complaints about the excessive gain are legendary themselves.
System synergy is a key issue in any system, much more with Atmasphere units. I have owned an MA1 and MA2 years ago - mk1 preamp and mk2 amps, not the current units. At that time I tried several preamps (cj ART2, ARC ref 2, ACT2) with the MA2, mainly because I wanted a remote, but never found a preamp which could be a better match to the MA2. Later I had to sell the Ma2 because I was offered a too good deal with an incompatible speaker and heat and space were a concern at that time.
Now I have a Dartzeel combo, and have tried several amps with the preamp, as I need more power for my preferred speakers (Soundlab A1 PXs), but for chamber music and jazz every time I prefer the Dartzeel preamp with its amplifier. The NH18NS is an excellent preamplifier, but the combo of both units used with the 50 ohm cables is the real deal!
I have a BAT REX that I would be willing to schlep to NJ from CT if the schedule is workable.
I'd be interested. I have a little preamp I could bring along for comparison.
05-18-09: Homosapien
Hi, Ron!
I live in Basking Ridge, and would like to take a part of the event, but I think that my Cary SLP-05 is not on the level you are interested in.
Thank you.
Boris.

I think you may be surprised at how the SLP-05 does with this group... def take it!
Hello...is the jury still out?? Thanks.

-Sam
Hey what happened???