Help with sub upgrade

I am looking at upgrading my subs in my HT system. Paradigm Sig4's and C3 up front, Anthem AVM30, Denon 3910 and Mac 207 amp. The room is 13w x 26l and 7.5h, Seating position is 12ft from front. Currentlty i am considering 2 JL F112's vs 2 ML's depths or perhaps a three sub REL system (B2, r305 i have one, and a T1 in the back. The system is 90% movies but i care a lot about how music sounds. I have space issues so the subs i have listed all fit where they need to go. Thanks for any thoughts that you might share. P.S. i would have gone with paradigm subs but they are too deep for the alloted space.
I'll vote for the JL Audio F112's. I have one in a stereo setup and it's accurate, fast, deep and built like a brick house.
You don't mention a budget. Mdowns' JL recommendation is a good one, but they are expensive. Test results (not head to head listening comparisons) suggest that the SVS subs look like a good alternative for significantly less $. I use Rythmik subs in a music only system. They are terrific in that application and I'm sure they'd be very good for HT use, as well - although probably less good than the comparable JL or SVS subs. Look at the subwoofer test results on the forums at for a lot of good info on this subject.

+1 for the Rythmik sub suggestion. The intergration between the servo driver and plate amp make it a very strong contender at a reasonable price. I own one and it replaced a Vandy sub.
I have read a bit about the Rythmik subs but am unclear how low they will go for HT? Two of the rythmiks and and a sub eq together would be a lot less than a single JL. I have looked at the svs as well but their box subs are too deep. I need a sub around 20 in deep to fit in my cabinetry. The cylinder subs don't do it for me.

A pair of 12" Rythmiks will produce (near) state of the art performance data down to app 35hz @ 100db - anechoic. In my room, I get flat response to 30hz w/no EQ and 25hz with app 4db boost below 30hz. I filter to eliminate response below 25hz, because it's a music only system and I have (virtually) no music w/info below 25hz.

I can't measure THD, but I certainly don't hear any and there is very little travel from the drivers at my max listening levels so I imagine it's pretty low. In short, I believe that there's plenty of room for more clean output and/or deep bass extension in my set-up, I just don't have the program material/spl needs to ever access it. Your room, listening levels, program material etc may well differ, so YMMV.


PS HT.shack has the Rythmik test results under DIY subs. The model that they tested was evidently a kit that, according to Brian @ Rythmik, was a WIP predecesor whose performance was similar to, though not quite as good as, the current model.
I vote for the jl audio --but would buy 1 f113 see how you like it --save a few bucks and then buy a second one and don't look back as they are great subs.
I have to agree with the JL Audio subs but instead of 1 F113 like the previous posts suggest just go for the pair of F112's.

If you have any woodworking skills then you can get comparable performance and save some big $$$ in the process. My DIY subs lack some definition and clarity compared to the Fathom F113 I previously had but for movies they blow it out of the water. I have never heard a more articulate sub then the Fathom F113 I owned for music though and that includes most of the top brands.
i am a very big fan of thiel subs. they offer a few different sizes as well as very effective integration pieces. i have owned mine for several years and it is outstanding in theater and music applications. good luck and enjoy your quest...
I have decided going with Jl subs but need further thoughts. I want to start with one sub and see if that would suffice? would a single 113 be all i need for the room. (mostly movies). If i started with a 112 would i quickly want a second? Two 113's seems to be overkill. The 112's are more appealing in that they are a bit smaller and they are a bit lighter.
If you have to put a sub in a cabinet I would think the JL would be one of the best. The JL cabinet is built extremely well. I also found that the F113 takes a while to break in. That driver they use needs serious exercise. They sound excellent right out of the box but are much better and smoother after some good use. I would go with one F113 and then try and pick up another down the road if you feel the need.
JL's are a fine product for sure. If I were considering a cabinet placement of both subs room EQ would be a big concern to me. JL's have an OK set up system but I would suggest the Velodyne SMS EQ component or simply going with Velodyne subs.

As to which brand gives the better low end is almost a toss up. I had some time with the JL 113 and my DD18, using their own EQ set ups I prefer the Velodyne. After the JL has been EQ'd via the Velodyne it's very close. The JL build quality is a bit nicer than the Velodyne which means nothing after a short time.

One on one in my room I prefer the larger 18" coned Velodyne by a very slight margin, my preference really. Using both at different ends of the room really seemed to lock or tighten up the lows in my room. In hindsight I should have gone with two 12" subs. Keep in mind the EQ is everything IMO.

Even with modern HT room correction EQing the sub/subs prior to running the room correction program is important IMO. In my HT the sub settings are just a little hotter for film than music, again my preference.
Just installed dual 112's and not looking back. Thanks for the input.
My thoughts...I have a full Paradigm Signature S1's,C1,ADP1's with a SVS PB 13Ultra and it sounds incredible. I just purchased a HIFI Pyon subwoofer platform custom fit just for the SVS to raise the sub because it sits too low to ground, also to fine tune the subs overall performance. And that it has done....For the price of a PB 13Ultra and a SVS AS-EQ1 subwoofer equilyzer you would only get one JL F113. And from the reviews of this worlds best sub EQ, the Fathom wouldn't even come close to the bass performance of the SVS & EQ. Even two PB13 Ultra's + EQ would kill 3 JL's in my opinion.

My alternate choice:: Check out Paradigms new Sig Sub 25. Apparently it's a great sub with a big price tag....Great reviews online.

Regards Bacardi
Docrobbi, I am not sure if you are aware of the feet adjustments but you may want to play with those a little and then calibrate again. After you get some real good time on them, if they are new, you will need to do another calibration after break in. Then you will hear the true performance of this sub. The articulation is SOTA. Maybe not the deepest bass out there but the control and openess they provide is simply awesome. The cabinets are also built for longevity which will enable the sub to perform the same ten years or more from now. I don't think I need to go into details about the driver since it is a very tried and tested piece of gear. You made a great chioce!
Mark Seaton's Submersive is something I am looking into.