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help with my sub and settings

My Power Sound Audio XS15se subwoofer arrived yesterday. Spent a few hours today working to get it dialed in with my system which I use strictly for music (Mostly classic and hard Rock.)

Too soon for me to give a positive recommendation to this Sub given that regardless of speaker positioning on my 5.1 set up I'm not getting the sound I wanted from the Sub. Currently I'm getting too much of a low tone sound from the Sub. I was after a more punchy, powerful, tight kick in the chest bass sound. Instead, I'm getting too much of a low end frequency tone. (a sound that while powerful would be more enjoyed by a hip hop, rap music fan would like.)

I've tried crossover settings from 60hz to 100hz with little result in change. The sub driver is visually pumping well. I'm using a 12 foot long $30 RCA bass input cable to the left/LFE sub input, but nothing to the "Right input" on the sub... It's a quality cable, but should I try an even heavier gauge bass RCA split cable to plug into both the LFE and Right Sub input?

Any help with my settings would be appreciated: Here is my equipment if that helps:
Oppo 103 multi player
Emotiva UMC 200 Pre-amp (Currently using optical dig into Pre-Amp.)
Emotiva XPA-5 Amp
2 Kliptch RF-7 Reference floor speakers.
2 Def Technology Studio Monitor65 Large bookshelf speakers.
1 Def Technology Pro 2000 center speaker.
(All positioned in a wide forward position)
I switched my Pre-Amp to all small speaker setting, although I think even my large bookshelf speakers might be safe to set at Large speaker setting. (I always worry about clipping and smoking a driver.) Should I try all large speaker settings?

Gain on sub is cranked up. (I'm setting the Center speaker to a lower volume level now because I'm getting a bit too much tweet.) I have the Pre-Amp set to 7 channel Stereo, to eliminate too much surround effect.

I'm thinking of selling the Emotiva XPA-5 Amp and the 2 DT Bookshelf and center speakers, then go with a higher wattage 2 channel Amp. Just go with my 2 RF7 Floor speakers and the Sub for a 2.1 set up.

So far I can't say I'm impressed with this Sub woofer, but maybe I'm not getting proper signal to it. (Too muffle like sound from this sub, not the tight clean punch I was after.)
It's down firing sub on carpet... Should I try placing the sub on a hard surface? Maybe the carpet is refracting the bass punch I want.

Can't think of anything else to alter or tweak.
pigchild
8 responses Add your response
martykl
3,578 posts
 
Pig,

How are you crossing the sub? Are you using Emotiva's room EQ?

These are critical issues in how a sub performs. Unlike Hew (above), I'd argue that the kick drum enhancement you're seeking is usually centered at about 55hz, so you want to cross comfortably above that. If you don't, the sub won't be handling that frequency range.

I don't know Emotiva's EQ scheme, but if it's anything like Audyssey, it will clean up a lot of hash and provide well defined bass at all frequencies. OTOH, some may find the default setting a little bottom heavy (much as you've described in your OP), so judicious tweaking (if available within the software) to taste may help.

Good Luck
pigchild OP
4 posts
 
Thanks for the input... (just a correction to one reply) this is the XS15se which is a non-ported sub.) your thinking of the XV15se model which is ported.

I went sealed sub only because in general they lend a bit better for Music only. It's performing much better now. As was suggested here I turned down the Sub volume a little and went down to 40hz crossover. Then as suggested I raised it higher with some perfect diameter thick rubber bushings I found at work. Just used some band clamps for neat looking attachment.

I then found a hard plastic carpet runner that I cut square to rest it on. MUCH better now. Cranked up some Metallica on CD and it's pretty punchy now. Driver is hitting harder and fast enough not to miss anything.

My space is mid-size at best and I'm happy now. A neighbor 3 doors down posted a complaint and I still had Plenty higher I could have gone. Single story 1940's condo on end unit. Thick old school walls so I didn't expect a complaint 3 doors down.

Initially I thought I was hearing some weird vibrating distortion, but then realized it was my picture frames on the wall clacking. No matter as I'm moving to a home with wide neighbor separation next month. I'm giving this Power Sound Audio the thumbs up for just $770 including shipping.

construction is thick and solid. 70 pounds so it's hefty for it's relatively small size. I shouldn't be using the optical cable, but my old RCA cables were ultra cheap junk $4 cables. Waiting on my set of better cables. I don't buy fancy $200 cables, but found some nice ones for just $60 bucks. Plenty good enough. Then eliminate that digital in cable.

2k Sub would have been nice, but for what my system is it's still 10 times better sounding than that big box retail junk that most people own. Oh... The system I would have if I was wealthy. Dream for me.
yogiboy's avatar
yogiboy
5,451 posts
 
Try raising the sub. Put something under the feet like a few books and see if that helps.
whitecap
110 posts
 
Don't have experience with that sub, but I see its a ported sub design--very, very difficult to get right. In any event, as a threshold matter, go 2 channel and then reevaluate everything.
lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,392 posts
 
Before making any changes to your system, let the new sub burnin. Even if
it's not fhe right sub for you there will be a noticeable difference in sound
after break in. And get the sub off the carpet.

Zd is right. The sub will supplement the low end and lessen the load of the
woofers. Then you would get the bass punch but only when sub volume
and crossover is set correctly.
akg_ca's avatar
akg_ca
2,146 posts
 
Sound and Vision reviewed it as primarily a HT movie kick-ass super chest shaking deep bass unit, but non- optimal for primarily music fans for precisely the same reason.

Sounds like the system synergy is absent. If so, a different sub is your pathway.

In my experiences, yiu will likely have to pony up to the $2K plus strata to have a reasonable step towards synergy with the rest of your system if you lean towards music.
ATC and Vandersteen subs are a pair of leading audio sub candidates. Google the top reviews and posts here and other audio blogs.

Auditioning whatever you choose is imperative to sense that tight, crisp refinement they provide in contrast to low-fi and mid-fi HT geared subs. These (and other) hi-end subs are invisible extensions of your mains.

Good luck
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"I was after a more punchy, powerful, tight kick in the chest bass sound. Instead, I'm getting too much of a low end frequency tone. (a sound that while powerful would be more enjoyed by a hip hop, rap music fan would like.)"

That's why they call it a subwoofer. The type of sound you are referring to in your first sentence is something your main speakers should handle. They're not sub frequencies. You may be better off getting a more powerful amp or different speakers.
hew's avatar
hew
159 posts
 
Many ways you can do this. I'd suggest that you temporarily place sub where you will sit and while it's playing some suitable bass material crawl around in some of the likely final positions and listen to the quality of the bass you are getting as you move. When you find a spot that sounds good, place the sub there. This location should be away from corners. Corner placement tends to make subs sound boomy and ill defined.

Next, you should set the cutoff frequency at or below the point where roll off begins in the mains. This is usually in the 40 - 120 hz range. I normally get better results at settings closer to 40 hz. Set volume just below where you can hear and localize the sub. The volume should be about the same level as the mains. If the sub has low pass filter options set it to the highest setting, generally 12db or 24db to prevent the sub playing into the mid-range.

Finally, I'd buy the Auralex Subdude to place under the sub. It's not entirely necessary but it will help get you a tighter and punchier bass and only cost about $60.
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