Help me with a Fidelity Research FR64 part


I got a mint FR64 tonearm at a great price. Sadly there was a catch it did not have the nut that fastens the arm at the base. It is a really fine thread (25 threads per inch) in fact my machinist doesn't have tooling for this.

so I want to know if anyone out there knows where I can get the said nut, or if they have one they can sell me - thanks
parrotbee
A couple of thoughts, try the, ineptly named, Tacoma Screw, or General Threaded. Last resort, just retap it.
Inapt. The word you were looking for viridian is inapt: not suitable or appropriate. Inept means clumsy. As in your command of language is inept. Like that.

Tacoma Screw, if you happened to have grown up in Tacoma, is a pretty darn apt name- both suitable and appropriate.

parrotbee if your machinist can't tap 25 threads per inch find yourself another machinist. Not that you will need one. Nobody machines a nut like this anyway. They are all standard parts. You just need to match up your threads and diameter with the type of nut you want to use.
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Nuts-Washers/Default.aspx

Or you could just take the whole thing to Tacoma Screw. I bet they have what you need just sitting there and for a buck fifty, if that.
I'm afraid that the FR64 has a significantly finer thread than a standard metric/imperial machined thread - that is why I started the post...
If a machinist cannot recognize the thread within 20 seconds run away from him, he is no good! It’s not a rocket science, I extracted the arm from the alu threaded male collar, brought it to a machinist and have it redone in stainless steel with a massive brass nut.
It’s likely to be metric.
You could by a thread gauge and possibly luck out with a standard metric pitch. A caliper will give you the diameter.
Miller, mea culpa. Better? Or is it batter? I liked to eat raw batter, until the food police told me that it would make me sick.

I would say that the Tacoma Screw in Portland is inapt. I found it by accident. Went in there thinking it was....oh, never mind.
Post removed 
You can buy them on yahoo Japan - "FR64S stabilizer" - original size or super heavy stabilizer 
I typed the word “BY” when I meant of course of Buy, in my post above. Most likely this happened because I am speaking into the phone, rather than trying to type with my big fat fingers.

Dover, I certainly could be wrong, but I think the OP is looking for the large nut that goes under the tonearm mounting board and mates to the thread at the end of the vertical shaft of the FR 64. In any case, at least for my FR 64S, the counterweights are not threaded at all. I guess I am making another assumption that a stabilizer is a counterweight.
Surprised Miller didn’t get you!
I will repeat that i have the original part, ask if you need it. Mine has been replaced with N-60 nut on one tonearm and with B-60 base on another.
That's a very kind offer from Chakster.
Look no further OP.
Not a surprise Chak has one.
Seems to have collected a huge amount of analog stuff on his journey.
I would take him up on his kind offer.
@lewm 
Dover, I certainly could be wrong, but I think the OP is looking for the large nut that goes under the tonearm mounting board and mates to the thread at the end of the vertical shaft of the FR 64. 
Yes, and if you google "yahoo japan" and "FR64S stabiliser" you will find exactly what he is looking for as I suggested. 

http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=k365009451



Dear chakster, I also bought replica B-60 so don't need the original
shaft (or ''base'') with mention NUT. However this (whole) part is
also offered for sell on different sites. You can't sell this part
without the nut or get the same price as with the nut included. 
I am surprised that you need such advise (grin). 

Dear dover, Lew is my English teacher so I agree with him and
consequently disagree with you, ''NUT'' and ''STABILIZER'' are
different ''animals'' despite the right picture on your reference. 
The name by your picture should be ''NUT'' and not STABILIZER.
The later are much bigger and heavier. One can see the difference
by comparing the original FR-64 NUT with B-60 stabilizer. 


@nandric 
No, you miss the point - English is not the primary language in Japan, and that is the mistake you make. Perhaps you could write to the advertiser in Japan and explain why they are wrong when they call a nut a stabilizer, as they have done for the past 10 years that they have been selling them.
As an aside they call a turntable "mat" a "plate" - you might like to correct them on that whilst you are at it.

Dear dover, this is the most strange argument against my proposition
I have ever heard; that primary language in Japan is not English.
If you read whatever translation from Japanese in English you can
hardly understand what they mean (grin). However our discussion is
in English and in this language one discriminate between NUT and
STABILIZER. The function of an name is to refer to some object in
the so called ''reality''. In this reality one can see the difference 
between an nut and an stabilizer. If ''form follows function''  then
the function of both objects is different: nut is to fasten something to
something else , stabilizer to , uh, stabilize with weight the involved
construction. 
The original N-60 is in this FR catalog from the 80's.
The name of that part is "N-60 Arm Stabilizer NUT" - this is written on the sticker on my original N-60 that i am using with FR-64fx tonearm. The original N-60 cost at least $250-300  

This part is an upgrade over the stock nut the OP is asking for, i have two (one from 64s, another from 64fx). The nut from 64fx is bigger and better.   
I can see how it could be referenced as a stabilizer by the Japanese as a poor translation.
In its job of fastenening the arm under the plinth it does indeed "stabilize" the arm.

Not the way we would normally describe the item but I can see how the Japanese have done so.
I am becoming unstable just reading this thread. Or maybe the correct term is "de-stabilized". But then, I am not a "stable genius".
Having spent a great deal of time in Tokyo, owing to the fact that our dear son has chosen to make Japan his home, I am often amused by the way in which the Japanese interpret and adapt the English language to suit the way their brains work.  It would make perfect sense for them to conflate the English words "stabilizer" and "nut", when the term is used to describe a thingamajig that holds a tonearm in place.  In some other context, it might be just a nut. Note, according to Uber, that they used both words, just in case.
google translate:
"thingamajig - used to refer to or address a person or thing whose name one has forgotten, does not know, or does not wish to mention."

Normally a nut is something that looks like a nut, i mean the shape of that metal part designed for use with conventional wrench to tight it up. And the FR nut from the stock armbase is exactly a nut.

But the "Arm Stabilizer Nut" (aka N-60) is something much bigger and completely different shape.

Something that often called Tonearm Stabilizer does not looks like a nut at all, it’s huge and superheavy, here is one original stabilizer for Luxman tonearm designed by Micro Seiki. I would not call it a nut. The mass, material and size specially designed/chosen to control resonance. 

Fidelity-Reseach B-60 is not just an arm stabilizer, but a VTA on the fly, here is one.
Ummm... Chak, I was just trying to be funny.  And I partially disagree with that definition of "thingamajig", having heard and used the term since the 1950s.  It refers to an object the correct term for which one either cannot recall at that moment or one does not know.  It's a useful shorthand that dates at least to WW2 military, if not before.  (I learned it from my WW2 veteran uncle when I was a very young child.)  I believe it to be American slang, but it could have emanated from England as well. I have never heard it used in reference to a person.
By the way, it's a "nut" in the sense that it is threaded and the use involves its capacity to fasten two things together.
Can I just say thanks for the efforts, links advice, and then intervention of Chakster!

My next point is this.

My machinist is actually very good, but the FR uses a 25TPI thread which is not standard, not only that but the base is something like 29.37mm diameter - 




 Based on my prior experience with re-tooling for Fidelity research and technics products, I guessed earlier that it is metric. 25 threads per inch is just about one thread per millimeter, which is a standard for metric. The thread pitch is 1.0. Of course, I am not there, and I am not a machinist. I don’t want to step on his toes.
Most of the machinists i have met are not interested to make just one small part, it is not interesting for them and they are busy with some serious orders. Unfortunately we're not their customes with one nut or one screw or anything like that (cheap parts).  
As I mentioned at the top of the thread (I think), I DO know a machinist who most likely would make this single nut for the OP, if he is given the correct specifications to work from.  That is Colby Lamb in Oregon, USA. I can provide contact info, if desired.  Colby made me a new threaded retaining ring for my SP10 MK3 platter; without that part it is impossible to fix the platter in place.  It sounds like the needed FR nut may be M30 (30mm diameter) with a metric pitch of 1.0.
this thread is turning me absolutely nuts - some may think I am unstable :) 
24 and 26 TPI is quite standard 25 is not - trust me I searched... Also bear in mind the odd diameter as well
Parrotbee
Most of the worlds population work with the metric sysrem. The population of Japan belong to this club
As Lewm suggests, this appears to be a M30x1 thread. 
It is defiantly a standard thread. 

Neither the thread pitch or diameter are unusual outside of USA

cheers 
Parrotbee, Metric pitch is not measured in "threads per inch".  The inch is not a unit of distance in the metric system.  However, one inch = 25.4 mm.  The millimeter, etc, IS a unit of distance in metric. If you count 25 threads per inch, that would equate to one thread per mm, which is expressed as a (metric) pitch of 1.0.  In the metric system, THAT is a standard pitch, albeit a "fine" pitch for an M30 part. (Metric has "coarse" and "fine", much like SAE.). The platter retaining ring for my SP10 Mk3 is M18X1.0, for another example.
@lewm 

As I mentioned at the top of the thread (I think), I DO know a machinist who most likely would make this single nut for the OP, if he is given the correct specifications to work from. That is Colby Lamb in Oregon, USA. I can provide contact info, if desired.


What if the OP is not in USA like myself ?

 Colby made me a new threaded retaining ring for my SP10 MK3 platter; without that part it is impossible to fix the platter in place.


 I think the price one can pay for an important part of the $8k turntable is another story.

I couldn't find any machinist who can make even one small screw for my B-60, they are all laughing at me, maybe if i will order 100 screws they can deal with it. With such a small nut it can be the same. They don't want to bother at all, at least in my town. Not every one is ready to work with such a small individual orders for cheap custom parts. 

The first Japanese engineers are educated in Germany so, as
Lew assumed, use(d) metric system. The stubborn and arrogant English and Americans thought that the rest of the world will follow them with their inscrutable measuring system (grin).        
One can’t help wondering if those German engineers were the same ones Russia sent back after the war.
Shipping for that one nut/bolt/stabilizer/whatever is around $100 ($89 for Asia)? That is some precious stuff.


http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=k365009451

Stubborn?
Arrogant?
Inscrutable?

Well I guess I check the first two boxes for sure...….
Chakster, Until now, I did not know where the OP is located.  Obviously, his capacity to interact with a machinist in Oregon is limited by geography.  However, if a competent machinist knows the parameters (possibly M30X1.0), then the OP may be able to locate one to make this piece for him.  OR, as "imhififan" has shown, he may be able to buy the part on line with no fuss.  Or, has he contacted you to take advantage of your own kind offer? Cripes, I am in the US, and I buy car parts from the UK all the time; shipping is not THAT crazy, and the parts start out being cheaper and much more available in the UK than here.

As to your own problem with the set screw in the B60, I suggest McMaster and Carr, which is also in the US, but the part is so tiny that shipping probably could be reasonable.  Another source is "Mr Metric", on-line.  And, Colby Lamb offered to machine for me a special set screw for my B60 similar to the improved version that Nandric had made in Europe. (I think that's correct; with a squared off protrusion at the end to engage the channel in the B60 and thereby eliminate side to side motion.)  However, I have delayed that little project because I am so pleased with the FR64S/B60, as is; I don't want to take it apart and be deprived of its use.  Or, you're closer to Nandric than you are to Colby Lamb.  Funnily, I have bought audio capacitors from Russia and the Ukraine. Shipping to me from those locations is faster than from Canada. (Both the US and Canadian Customs Officials are fanatical; it seems they are not happy unless the border transit takes at least a week.)
@lewm regarding the FR B-60 replica:
I have solved the little play between the inner and outer parts of my B-60 base, i was very disappointed by fact that local machinists can’t make any parts like that because they don’t want to bother at all with indivitual orders for such a small part, too cheap for them, they all want money.

After chatting with Nikola i realized his screws are the same size (just different material) and also must be fixed to get rid of the little play between the parts.

A friend has fixed my screw yesterday for FREE by hammering the upper part of the steel screw to squash it a bit to expand the diameter of the "nose" of that screw which goes to the slot in the inner part to prevent the lateral movement. Now everything is solved and i have no play horizontal between the parts, the screw sits in the slot tightly and everything is just fine.

I recommend this simple method to anyone with the same problem with B-60!


Dear geofkait, Your question ''if those German ingineers were
the same which Russian send back after the war?'' is interesting.
Russian obsession with secrecy is the reason that much is
unknown about German-Russian military cooperation. To avoid
limitations prescribed by ''Versailles treaty'' Germans organized
their military development in Russia. What both parties learned
from each other is not known but in 1950 about 170 German
''scientist'' were sent back to Germany. According to Korolev
(Russian rocket scientist and  leader of ditto program) they were
useless to Russia. This means that Russians were further in
technological development in rocket- as well nuclear science.
Rockets are already used in the war as the so called ''Stalin 
organs'' .  Japan was in its development first dependant from
Holland which was the only state allowed in Japan. Their
expression for ''science'' is translation of ''Dutch''. But Holland
was to small for so many Japanese students. So they were sent
to Germany to study mechanical engineering. Before or around
the first WW.

Dear chakster, ''the nose'' of the screw should not be hammered
for obvious reason of damaging the thread. I used vice instead
assuming that the screw is not made from steel but some other,
softer material. For this reason one should not apply to much
force but proceed gradual.  
Fidelity-Reseach B-60 is not just an arm stabilizer, but a VTA on the fly, 
here is one.

Chak, that is not a genuine Fidelity Research B-60 base.
The genuine B-60 does not have the screw in the top-plate and hence has no horizontal movement at all.
I’ve had two reproduction B-60s with the surface screw and three genuine FR B-60s.
One of my reproductions had horizontal movement whilst the other didn’t (different ‘fakes’).

The difference between ''genuine'' and replica B-60 is $2000.
The genuine cost $2500 the replica $500. However this difference
is ''academic'' because the replica is not available anymore.
The only problem by the replica is the screw which connect the
outer and inner side of the VTA adjuster. As chakster and I discovered this can be easily corrected. One need to mark the
center position of the screw and then squeeze the opposite sides
with the vice in order to ''widen'' the ''nose'' of the screw, The screw
is easily reachable by unscrewing of the, uh, ''stabilizer''. Then 
check for the horizontal movement and try again if not satisfy. 
But one need to proceed careful because the most own just one
of those screws. So don't ''screw the screw''. 
This is "seat of the pants" thinking, but it seems to me that horizontal movement, if it is only evident when one applies considerable force in the horizontal plane, is not a deal killer.  If the tonearm is loose and flopping left to right or etc in the horizontal plane, that is a problem.  In my case, the tonearm can be rotated in the horizontal plane but only with considerable effort, and it never moves during actual use, where the drag on the pivot is only in the milligram range, so I decided to forego the repair process, for the time being at least. 

Colby Lamb offered to make me a new set screw with a widened "head" such that it tightly occupies the vertical channel in the B60 shaft and thereby prevents wiggle.  But he needs the whole part in order to do the job accurately.  I don't want to send it to Oregon just now. Thanks to Nandric et al for the alternative cure mentioned above; maybe I will try that since it takes only a few minutes and can be done at my home, 2700 miles from Oregon.  After I screw up the screw (or lose it in the carpet or under my work bench), THEN I will have to send it to Colby.
Sure, we're talking about $500 B-60 replica, i have never owned the original but it's too expensive anyway. I must admit the price for the original B-60 is absolutely crazy, for the price of that original part alone i bought the whole NOW Lustre GST-801 tonearm with similar base with VTA on the fly!

The screw in B-60 replica is made of steel (just like the whole replica), the diameter of the "nose" of the screw is 1.9 mm but the slot in the inner part of the base is slightly bigger, anyway the difference is tiny. 

However, the horizontal play between the arm and the base is big when the arm is attached everything is tightened. It is not acceplable for me, because i owned many tonearms and none of them have any play between the arm and the base. This problem  with B-60 and 64s is easy to fix as i described. 

Hammering the screw "nose" from the top (this part does not have a thread on it) is easy, but must be proceed carefully. We're talking about a very tiny difference, so it's not a big deal. No need for the new screw. As i said the problem fixed and my FR64s in B-60 replica sits perfectly (no play between the parts anymore). 
In fairness to me I am only going by what my machinist told me...

Parrotbee, I hope there is no blame at all attached to helping with this problem. Certainly none aimed at you or your machinist. Where are you located? Has any further progress been made?
Oh none taken - I'd be a total donut if I put something onto a forum and not expect responses.

I'm in the UK.

I have resolved the issue as @chakster donned his proverbial audiophile cape and sold me a base - in fairness he offered just the nut.

As it happens you can still get the b60 replica from yahoo auctions in Japan - that said I was a tad bemused with how yahoo auctions works so I just did not bother with that.

All said and done I am making my own adjustable arm mount using a micrometer adjustable lab jack
Oh none taken - I'd be a total donut if I put something onto a forum and not expect responses.

I'm in the UK.

I have resolved the issue as @chakster donned his proverbial audiophile cape and sold me a base - in fairness he offered just the nut.

As it happens you can still get the b60 replica from yahoo auctions in Japan - that said I was a tad bemused with how yahoo auctions works so I just did not bother with that.

All said and done I am making my own adjustable arm mount using a micrometer adjustable lab jack