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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman

Showing 7 responses by erik_squires

erik_squires
15,646 posts
 

     My wish for you is to audition and experience the Swarm. Possibly Duke or James Romeyn could arrange it? Or, you're welcome to stop by my house if you're near Indy.
     You could then state your objective, apropos thoughts on the Swarm. Perhaps say your piece and move on? I know I'd find it very interesting.



Thanks.  I have no problem with the technology.  Just the interactions and people who've gotten in my grill.  As a result of that,  you all go swarming all you want to, wherever you want to, for as long as you want to, and let me not.
erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
I’m trying to model the behaviors I’d like to see in others.

One of the ways in which I’d like to behave is to say my peace and move on.

Just random thoughts apropos of nothing in particular.


Erik
erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
Right. If we are talking about a 2 channel high fidelity system one sub never works well for a multitude of reasons.


I must have a magic sub.
erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
Dear Audiogon,

If you need to bring me over to your side, please serve me a heaping hot plate of condescending flattery drizzled with projection.

Best,
E
erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
"A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making."


I think the real issue here is you are unable to separate criticism of your fans from criticism of your tech, or alternately defending all your fans but as I type this I remember we are retreating an endless debate about who can and who cannot (or will not?) read nuance and detail.

The beauty of a blog like that is not having to retread old arguments. I’m going to let it speak for itself more, and clarify it less.


Best,

E


erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
Hey @mitch2
Fair question.  I've not heard the swarm.  I've heard a lot of subs though, and most of them sounded horrible. I've heard a handful of well integrated subs which were spectacular.

My point in writing that piece was that a single or dual sub can be amazing, if used well, as well as that full-range systems can sound far better than they do with the right room treatment.  The idea that only swarms can sound good, or are the ideal fix for any possible ailment your system has is just not supported by evidence.
erik_squires
15,646 posts
 
I wrote a great deal about this here:

https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2020/04/how-to-not-buy-subwoofer.html

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