Temixoch, the bass on the Def4 is certainly a different beast than on my Def2. I'm assuming the 1.5 is similar to the 2, w four 10" subs rear firing.
The trick to getting it right is to drop the Low-Pass Filter to 38-42Hz. I'm at 38Hz, as is Phil. It's critical not to allow subs output to bleed into, and thus smear, the mids FRDs.
At 38-42Hz, have the Volume at 5-7.
I'm at 6.5, but this is really room dependent.
Other settings w me are
PEQ Gain 3.75
PEQ Freq 31
Phase 0° (both switch and dial)
For me, the 2s were just overwhelming, I could never get them right. Yes, bass on the 4s seems less powerful, but it's tighter and more tuneful.
Get yr 4s a little into the room, they start singing here 5' from front wall, best at 8'. From side walls, 3-4'.
Then set Low Pass Filter to 38Hz, Volume at 5/10. Repeat tracks w Volume going up in increments to 7/10.
Then start again w Low Pass at 39Hz, vary Volume incrementally 5-7/10. Then start again at 40Hz, incrementally Volume 5-7/10. And so on.
At some point hopefully you'll hit on the right balance of extension, bloom and speed.
Another consideration is the 4s are down firing. Thus, footers on the Zus and type of floor makes a difference, more than the 2s.
In my old apartment w solid concrete floors, stock spikes or Symposium Rollerblocks really worked. Here, on my 150 yr old suspended timber flr w plenty of flex, Arya Audio Revopods on Panzerholz are the ticket.
I'll ask Phil to chip in.
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Temixoch, good luck. There's no doubt that 4x 10" woofers firing 6" into a wall would produce a very pressurised bass, whereas 1x 12" firing down into the floor is a whole different concept.
My Revopods raise the Def4s 1.5" off the floor (I also situate the Zus on Panzerholz pieces).
FWIW, Jaco and Geddy sound pretty good here.
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GSM, I've just tried yr settings and really quite like the sound.
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My Def 4s are nos.179 and 180. Where does this fit in the production run re sum amps' gain?
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Phil, you don't know the half of it LOL.
I'm trying GSM's suggestion of subs at 45Hz and 9/10 Level.
My default setting is 38Hz and 6.5/10.
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Temicxoch, all this stuff is buyer beware, and critically, room dependent. My old space was a converted industrial loft with a bombproof solid concrete floor overlaid w timber, which meant that the option of Rollerblocks replacing spikes under the Zus was possible, and indeed these did have the edge on stock spikes.
Here, my floor is much more flexy, being an 1861 actual roof space. Even though I didn't realise it to start, the Rollerblocks were deleterious on this floor. I noticed existence of Revopods as I went to trial IsoAcoustics Gaias footers, tried both out, and the Revopods totally ruled. I can't say w any great confidence why this is the case, but for me the Revopods have really pushed my Definitions performance to the next level, incl the ability to get deeper, tighter and more extended subs output, which I know is your ongoing issue.
I'm not going to claim they are your solution, it's room setup and subs settings that needs to be yr current focus, but these footers could then be the icing on the cake.
For the record, the Revopods sit on Panzerholz slabs, themselves on Symposium Acoustics Svelte Shelves.
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Give it a go, I certainly had success to start w RBs. Just take care on physically placing them under the Zus, they're obv not fixed.
Part of the joy of this hobby (or is that pain? LOL) is both incremental impvts, and occasional big leaps.
For me, the Def4s have so positively responded to the system wide changes I've made, they've justified me not taking the easy option and simply upgraded to pricier, more complex spkrs.
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David, I'd be skeptical about Sean's advice on simple rubber footers. If you truly need greater bass warmth, trial the IsoAcoustics Gaia footers. I found they were outperformed by the Revopods, but in a situation where bass is MIA, they could be the ticket. |
David, I thought Phil didn't have that right. Yes, the Gaia I's are the ticket. You will certainly hear a different character in the bass. Whether that's ultimately for you...
I did try GSM's subs settings of 46Hz and 9/10 Level, but in the end found I was better off sticking w my current 38Hz and 6.5/10, as guided by Phil.
I may experiment w toe in. I sit 15' from my Zus, and they cross 3' behind me, much flatter than I initially had them, or the Def 2s before.
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David, it's totally reasonable not to feel so challenged you can't get it right. I'm envious of those Def4s owners who got things right on the first day, kicked back and relaxed.
Indeed, I've been running my 4s for just over 6 yrs, and in concert w my analog reinstall coming up trumps, I'm FINALLY properly dialling in my Defs.
For me, they've taken big strides re room position, footers, Duelunds and Lundahls upgrades, power cords, fuses, grounding (Sean installed ground posts for me), balanced pwr to subs.
Updated Lundahls, Gaias footers and careful attention to subs settings and toe in could provide big upsides. |
David, Phil is right. Do not expensively spend on subs ancilliaries until you've got basic setup right. At that point if you're happy, and want to go on, my personal experience is that choice of pwr cords and fuse makes a difference.
I'm stuck with a little hum in my Zu sub amps that I'm still searching for a solution.
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My pleasure David, I hope it helps. I've been masochistically flying the Zu flag for 6 long years on What's Best Forum, mainly receiving brickbats in return LOL - so, its great to try and help by conversing with a fan of the brand.
Certainly I'm sure Sean and Phil can bang their heads together and get you in the right direction.
Be patient. I have been, for 11 years now LOL.
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Request ground posts for Sean when he looks at yr amp modules.
I'm sure you'll like the Gaias footers, some mileage there.
The other thing to say David is that eight 10" woofers versus two 12" was always going to present a difference, esp rear facing versus down firing.
I think you need to approach the 4 as a different spkr to the 1.5, blank canvas approach on set up. |
Well based on that reply, I need to contact Sean about solving my subs hum issues as well.
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David, Sean has emailed me to say the solutions he has for you may well suit me too. Great customer service.
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David, Sean emailed me to say he had a potential solution prompted by yr issues. If he's resolved yr problem, that's a good omen for me. I've spent a little too much in this hobby in the last 3 years, this is going to be my last outlay for at least 12 months.
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If it is, I might be next.
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