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Help me tame my out of control bass

Hey all,

Hoping to get some advice on how to tame what appear to be some pretty bad room modes. See my system here:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8800

I’m in a bit of a pickle for a few reasons. First, my NY apartment is on the small side and requires me to set up on the long wall with the listening position against the opposite wall. On top of that I upgraded to my dream speakers, Egglestonworks Kivas. They sound amazing but they’re big and have a lot of low end reach. The combination of these two factors leads to the waterfall you see in my system - a pretty massive bump in low end, particularly at 40-44hz and from 60-70hz.

There’s also a huge bump at 120hz, but I don’t understand how that one is possible. I think that might be a measurement or microphone error - I don’t hear that at all and it doesn’t go away even when I EQ 120hz out completely, but maybe it’s a resonance?

Things I’ve tried so far, each with modest success:
- Plugging the ports gave me about a -5db reduction in the trouble spots (all measurements are with the port blocked)
- I don’t have a ton of placement flexibility but moving them back from their original position gained me about a -3dB reduction in bass
- I added a pair of 5.5” thick GIK bass traps, but they didn’t do much that I’m seeing in the measurements. Maybe a -1-2dB reduction, tops. They honestly helped more with the mids and highs.
- Convolution curve in Roon - this works the best, but doesn’t solve the problem for home theater or vinyl

I’m pretty stumped as to what else I can do. I think that the amount of bass traps needed to fix this is more than my marriage can withstand. I’m considering the PSI AVAA active bass traps, but only if I can do a home trial of them first to see if they’ll actually help - I worry this 8-10dB bump I’m seeing will be too much for even a pair of those. I could get a DIRAC processor from miniDSP and that would at least then work for all digital sources. Vinyl is mostly not a problem since this is so low and most of my vinyl is rock and jazz.

Any other ideas? Rolling tubes that have less bass? Are there any less expensive EQs with digital in and out that I could use as an alternative to the DIRAC for home theater only?
hudsonhawk

Showing 4 responses by oldhvymec

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oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
I have a feeling the spike at 120 is a crossover issue, 60-70 is normally an 8 foot ceiling, 40-50 (and if you had 9 foot ceilings) is the room size. So reflection point over your head and in front of you. Pull the speakers out from the walls, if only for listening. The suck out is REAL important.
WHY?, you’ll enjoy the un bloated bass, because you’ll volume DOWN.

You filled in the missing parts, you’ll see, MC was right on. Take care of the suck out and the bass will clean up.. Bass traps at 12" to 48" in all 4 corners, Not higher, not lower.. Both front and rear walls, dead center, do something, Drapes, kill the returning waves a bit...

EQ the rest. I use full blown DSP for bass management, nothing else 300 hz and below. PEQ, GEQ, slopes, threshold, phase...everything..
Above 300 hz all passive with high quality parts..

The slow decay rates are because the room is WAY to lively.. That is also why you have all the combing (dips, and actual valleys..)

Ricochet biscuit, comes to mind..:-)

Regards
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oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
Wow, you do have a MB and low mids issue. 250hz WAY low. Can you hear voices clearly?

250hz low
1.5mhz low
2.5mhz low
7.5mhz GONE
The top is gone 8K and up is a down hill spiral. The orange line is against the wall? How the heck do you EQ that? You don’t, this is follow the bouncing ball. Man oh man.. Curtains, and you can take them with you..

I learned that a LONG time ago. Heavy curtains are your best friend..
Wall acoustic treatment, mids and highs. The bass I’d DSP and PEQ the suck out / combing in the mids and highs.. OVER your head and in front of your feet.. The side walls are the short walls.
They aren’t that short are they? LOL

That’s why the bass is bloated, mids, so so, but the 8K and up, that is a real problem for me.. I use ribbons and planars. I refuse to give up anything from 300hz -19k. Bass is always "too much", distribution is the issue too. I never could get great results with 60hz < in the same box, just can’t work.. I quit trying 30 years ago.. Different boxs for ALL the bass.

SERVO bass unit (s). That would work for the bass I bet..
I hate saying this, 130hz and down.. Normally 30-50hz and down.
My set up is different.. That 250hz suck out is pretty nasty though..
VOICES.. Bass Bassoon, low clarinets, Lena Horn LOL..

I don’t know OP, I’m just thinkin’ out loud..

Set up Kitty corner.. Read on Decware’s site about that.. pretty interesting read..

Sure a nice setup though..

Time to feed the Chickens. NY. Berrrrr!!! :-)

Stay warm...

Regards
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oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
The 120 issue. I read Erik had said it may be AC. It that because 220-40 VAC. being on at the same time? Or some 220-40 VAC something being on? I’m not following, I’m a little foggy these days, the light is a little dimmer lets say..:-)

I don’t run anything at 220-40, except the AC and never when the stereo is on. Maybe that’s why I never see a serious spike like that.

I see it on the flame/graph, can you hear that? If it’s there you have to be able to hear it, right. Can the spike be so narrow you can’t hear it? I guess the answer is in the second graph, with no audible seen, proves you can’t hear it? I’m not understanding the bottom to top narrow line @ 120 (ish). I need the tech tofu!!!

Regards
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oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
Hummmm, Maybe that's why I've never see one on my stuff. 2496 Behringer, it's their mic, it's all their stuff. Your saying the equipment the mic is hooked to may have a ground loop? AND that through rectifying it, that causes that spike.

It doesn't sound so "Rectified" "To be made right" A2D
Can you hear a spike like that A2D, or Erik?

OK I'll DMDD, I'll learn.. Maybe:-)

OP, can you hear that narrow spike?

Maybe I need to see if I can make it happen, and give it a listen..

I guess I'm lucky.  I have been in the same home for 40 years,  May..

Regards
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