Another + for the Schiit Freya. I also own one and love it.
HELP!!! I need a “GOOD-CHEAP” preamp solution???
I would appreciate the community’s thoughts about replacing my NAD C356 BEE integrated amp (it’s being used as my preamp) in my modest but nice sounding 2 channel audio system. Why replace the NAD? The remote no longer talks to the amp, I’ve already replaced the large pc board ($275) and it’s running hot with a dark brown spot on the blue pc board. Scary.
Ideally, I’d like a tube preamp as I enjoy the “warmer” side of neutral. Laid back, spongy, non-fatiguing highs, meaty bass is me. Fast, accurate and transparent need not apply.
The digital source includes an older Theta Carmen cd transport to a Cary Audio dac (100 t) with a pair of vintage Mullard 6922’s in the output stage. Off to the NAD to a $400 Emotiva A300 (150w) amplifier. It’s a high gain (28db) and a bit forward/bright with my speakers. The speakers are my first pair of bookshelves. A recent move found the new man-cave just 11’ x 11’ x 9’. They are a nice pair of Focal Chorus 807 V W Prestige bookshelves. A sealed SVS SB-2000 sub fills in the blanks for the Focal bookshelves. Where’s the warm, analog tt you say? It’s coming. Zu Audio rca’s/speaker cabling with Acoustic Zen interconnects and AZ power plugs.
Now, the big question. I know there’s a ton of options out there. But, what direction to go? Need to think budget (let’s say <$1500) Does a guy gamble and go vintage tube pre or SS used??? Is buying a 90’s preamp risky? For example, a CJ/AR/PSAudio/Classe/McCormick DNA etc. What sounds good? (I know, I know) is reliable and fun to listen to. A pre that might have good synergy with the extended highs and metal tweets (Al/Mag) of the Focals???
Is there a good used, inexpensive and dependable “sleeper” of a preamp (ss or tube) that you like???
Ideally, I’d like a tube preamp as I enjoy the “warmer” side of neutral. Laid back, spongy, non-fatiguing highs, meaty bass is me. Fast, accurate and transparent need not apply.
The digital source includes an older Theta Carmen cd transport to a Cary Audio dac (100 t) with a pair of vintage Mullard 6922’s in the output stage. Off to the NAD to a $400 Emotiva A300 (150w) amplifier. It’s a high gain (28db) and a bit forward/bright with my speakers. The speakers are my first pair of bookshelves. A recent move found the new man-cave just 11’ x 11’ x 9’. They are a nice pair of Focal Chorus 807 V W Prestige bookshelves. A sealed SVS SB-2000 sub fills in the blanks for the Focal bookshelves. Where’s the warm, analog tt you say? It’s coming. Zu Audio rca’s/speaker cabling with Acoustic Zen interconnects and AZ power plugs.
Now, the big question. I know there’s a ton of options out there. But, what direction to go? Need to think budget (let’s say <$1500) Does a guy gamble and go vintage tube pre or SS used??? Is buying a 90’s preamp risky? For example, a CJ/AR/PSAudio/Classe/McCormick DNA etc. What sounds good? (I know, I know) is reliable and fun to listen to. A pre that might have good synergy with the extended highs and metal tweets (Al/Mag) of the Focals???
Is there a good used, inexpensive and dependable “sleeper” of a preamp (ss or tube) that you like???
69 responses Add your response
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If you can live with noise coming from your volume control, buy the Schiit. I returned mine in the trial period and had a negative experience so I am "off" the Schiit forever now. You been given several great options in the used category: Odyssey, Van Alstine are known as being very musical and well built. I bought a rebuilt by the factory Audible Illusions. Love it. Good luck!! |
For around $1,500 .. Linear Tube Audio.. The Microzotl preamp is getting some extremely good reviews, by people who are used to much more expensive equipment.. Very Highly Recommend.. https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mz2mz2-s I’m using a, Decware (CSP3) preamp/headphone amp.. The only complaint with my preamp is no remote control for volume.. But rolling tubes can be useful while trying to match to your equipment and taste.. I bought the CSP3 to use with my ZMF headphones , recommend by Zach of ZMF headphones.. I was hoping that the CPS3 would be high enough quality to replace my Odyssey Candela .. I placed the CSP3 into my system feeding my 2 channel Odyssey Extreem +++ SS amp..!! It sounded so good that , I sold the Candela, and bought a Decware amp as well.. http://www.decware.com/newsite/CSP3.html |
Well , the two pre- amps were a few years apart, I own only the Vision version at present .The Vision has things I want in a pre . 1 A gain switch 2. A balance knob. IMO every pre-amp should have one to help with your room problems . 3, Six inputs , for two TT’s at a time and tuner in my case . Along with the optional phono pre-amp this allows me to control any cartridge in my system , I’m a vinyl guy with 3 TT’s with 6 different carts in 6 head shells for my DD . I have the remote but wouldn’t cry if I didn’t .I want tubes some place in my system so I run the Vision SS with my tube amp , works better for me to not have an all SS or all tube system . The overwhelming character of the Vision is typical AVA clarity and neutrality. And that’s what I want in the classical and jazz music that is 95 % of my listening .It runs all class A . The TB may be better for you to get a bit of warmth .You can get clarity in a 2 tube pre but will cost you about at least $200 in new tubes IF you are lucky . It’s fun to play with tubes but good ones cost .The TB may have the typical clarity of Van Alstine in the SS version over the tube TB. Never heard them , can’t say -for most not a problem either way.If it might be for you just ask Frank . . |
@schubert When I called Frank yesterday, he definitely had his stereo volume up and enjoying some type of guitar tune. It’s what you do when it’s -20 out in the dead of winter. I should know, I just moved from Marquette, Mi (I’ve never been happier) and “you guys” can have those long, cold winters. So, how do you like those two preamps you own? Love to hear your thoughts and impressions. Thanks |
I live about 10 miles from Van Alstine .Twice I have had problem with 2 of his pre-amps both of which were MY Fault! .Went to Frank , he himself fixed them both within an hour whilst I listened to his system . Total cost was zero ! As he says himself , "I don’t know everything but what I do know, I know well". |
@maine95 After seeing all the positive recommendations for Van Alstine, I actually called yesterday and Frank answered all of my questions. We spoke about the T 10 RB pre. It has (2 preouts) that I need. As you mentioned, it can be ordered with the same phono pre he sells as a stand alone unit for $100 less if ordered installed in the preamp. Remotes are always nice too! Thanks everyone for the heads up on the many great “value” preouts on the market. |
@keeferdog Add another rec for Van Alstine equipment. Frank builds three preamps; the solid state Vision as well as the tube based Transcendence 10 and FET Valve CFR. I had an earlier SS version for several years then traded up to a T10 two years ago. Great synergy paired with a Van Alstine SS amp. The sound is smooth,natural and detailed. The base price is $900 and you can add options such as a remote, their excellent phono stage and tone and balance controls. If you call with a question, Frank often answers the phone. Well worth consideration |
wolf_garcia" I think magic fuse myths are utter inexplicable baloney touted by shills and wishful thinkers I think those who consistently, repeatedly, and seemingly endlessly prattle away that magic and myths explain the reports, experience, and findings of others are themselves consumed with legend, fiction, and voodoo make-believe and that they satisfy, comfort, and attempt to heal they're confusion, disorientation, and ignorance in a cloak of science of which they do not possess, understand, or comprehend. |
Unlike the cave man wolf, I have installed magic fuses in my Schitt SYS. Since it is a passive unit there was no fuse holder, so I superglued it to the side of the case. Unfortunately, geoff convinced me that it was in the wrong direction and I broke it breaking it loose with a screwdriver. However, I have now superglued both halves in the same direction, so I am fairly certain that at least one half is now directionally correct. |
I ignore the fuse in my Schiit Freya as I think magic fuse myths are utter inexplicable baloney touted by shills and wishful thinkers ( I tested some highly touted Special Fuses to see if they were better, and they not only aren't, but the ones I tested showed they're sometimes dangerously inaccurately rated). I'm not sure what sort of fuse came with the Freya, but it manages to stay out of the way of the sonics of the thing just fine. |
I have Rogue Audio RP-1 (~$1.6k) running Mullards, Wadia DAC , PSA S300, Focal 926s . I like the Rogue its been a good piece. Has a respectable phono stage. The company is good to work with as well , they answer the phone and return calls. Only knock is the plastic remote. Here is the Stereophile review https://www.stereophile.com/content/rogue-audio-rp-1-preamplifier |
Schiit, Audio has a nice little preamp that is both vacuum tube or solid state you choose which one sounds better with remote for around $800 and beat many preamps 2x the cost if on a budgeta solid choice and you can upgrade the vacuum tubes to much bettter quality for even better results ,upgrade the fuse, and a respectable power cord as with. Any preamp a must . |
Schiit, Audio has a nice little preamp that is both vacuum tube or solid state you choose which one sounds better with remote for around $800 and beat many preamps 2x the cost if on a budgeta solid choice and you can upgrade the vacuum tubes to much bettter quality for even better results ,upgrade the fuse, and a respectable power cord as with. Any preamp a must . |
Hey if you are getting rid of your nad 356 maybe you would sell me the phonisragphono stage part ??? let me know thanks [email protected] |
Sugden Headmaster is a headphone amp/preamp with three inputs. It is shocking good and found used for between $500-700. Class A design with a great tube like sound. And fast. I mean really quick. The attack of instruments and vocals is immediate. One version has a remote. I run a Manley 300B Neo Classic preamp and it is 80% as good as that. |
As yogiboy stated, Quicksilver has been around for 35 years. I am taking interest in their integrated and headphone amp. Only reason I own the Jolida Fusion over it is that I knew a dealer that provided me the Jolida highly discounted. It also has no balance or mono function. Does have HT passthrough, in addition to 3 RCA inputs a single XLR input, an XLR output and 3 RCA outputs (1fixed, 2 variable). I do use the XLR outputs though wouldn't need to. Service from Quicksilver or Jolida is known to be great. You can call either company and obtain good advice on how their products will fit into your system. The Van Alstine would be another contender, I am not as familiar with it. I have no experience with the Schiit Freya or Saga. Do own, have owned, some of their products which I have found to be 'high quality for the dollar' products. Good luck in your search. |
The simple easy answer: Find a nice used Counterpoint SA-2000 on eBay replace with some good tubes such as JJ Telsla 6DJ8s for starters and enjoy. From there you can upgrade the unit with a few resistors, capacitors, volume control and then tube rectification modification. Or try a Prima Luna for the warmer side of neutral. Happy Listening. |
@keeferdog Not much to add only that Van Alstine seems like a good bang for the buck. BTW, I use that Quicksilver preamp that is mentioned above. The only reason I did not recommend it is because it is very basic having no mono or balance control. It is point to point wired and great company support. If you don’t need those features you should grab it! Quicksilver has been around for 35 years! |
@mesch Thanks for the heads up. I just finished researching Quicksilver Audio. Had never heard of them. What’s wrong with a tube pre x2 12ax7 USA buildt (Stockton, Ca) product? Looks like they’re building a new integrated amp, a phono pre and power amplifiers. There’s also one for sale on FleaBay for $499. Anyone else have experience with QuickSilver Audio??? |
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Used to own a Modwright SWL 9.0 SE so can speak honestly on this piece. It is indeed a Giant Killer and will keep one up late listening to music. Tried several preamps before I moved up the the MW 36.5 and the 9.0 made many seem boring to listen to. The 9.0 is just flat out fun to listen to and has great PRaT. It’s built very well and not sure anything near the money will complete. Good luck. |
@andrake I get it. I recently demoed a First Watt F7 for one week in my home system, from my local dealer. The Emotiva is approximately a 28db gain amp vs the F7’s 14db. Class A vs AB. All I can say is WOW. I was impressed. The synergy with the First Watt and the Focals produced a smoother,almost tube like tone. I never knew how good the Focals could sound. I found myself enjoying longer and non-fatiguing listening sessions.I struggled with the idea of giving back the The First Watt but it’s 3k new ($2400 for the demo) vs $400. Now, I know. The Emotiva is OK for a 150w stand alone amplifier. A bit forward sounding for the Al/Mag tweets. I did have to disconnect and remove the two noisy, cheap and unnecessary heat sink fans. The amp runs very cool. The First Watt? Um- Class A produces a nice source of heat for the man-cave for the week. Point being budget creates constraints. I like the Modright and believe me, I won’t have the Emotiva long. |
The Freya has a well regarded and well publicized (at least among those who actually look at the available information) volume system described on the Schiit site thusly: "Most preamps—passive or active—use a potentiometer for volume control. Freya uses a sophisticated microprocessor-controlled relay-stepped attenuator for perfect channel matching and zero distortion—and with 128 steps for ultra-precise level control. You can hear it clicking as you turn the volume up and down." Although it seems silly to have to say this, It's a sound that exists only WHEN YOU'RE ADJUSTING THE VOLUME. Clicking physically, disturbing whatever your listening to sometimes, but there's a simple reason for it being there as it's a better, much more sophisticated and more accurate system than a wiper in a pot. Jcder...this is a benefit, not an issue, and is simply another part of a well designed preamp. I've found that the micro adjustments from the 128 steps is a useful and cool thing. Your salesman is an idiot. |
Just spend the big bucks and get one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HEQJGPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc... I know, I know, it's just a joke but I tried it and it sounds surprisingly good on my system >Conrad Johnson MF2300A > Magneplanar 1.7 |
I have no familiarity with the Emotiva amp you have, and not being personally critical , I'm not sure that sticking into the equation relatively higher end preamps - Modwright or a few others mentioned - makes much sense with a $400 amp. andrake effectively points this out in his post above from his personal experience with the amp in question. Might want to consider that more |
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I bought an Audio Experience Symphonies from Y S Audio in Hong Kong about 9 years ago for around $300 and had some mods done here in Australia for another $250. The mods consisted mainly of replacing the caps with Blackgates ( no longer available) and the tubes with RCA NOS 12ax7. The guy that did the mods custom builds amps and preamps costing $20,000 + and he indicated that the preamp when modified sounded as good as any pre he had heard from either the USA or the UK costing up to $4000. I note that the pre sells for $633 now and is now using Sonicaps. You could probably get a used one for less. My pre is stll going strong and sounds great. I know US buyers are rather suspicious of Chinese products but this amp designer is the real thing and it's worth while having a look at the website. |