Help Choosing Speakers


I am looking to find a nice pair of speakers that will work well in a relatively small dedicated listening room. My setup is 100% analog, tube amp, turntable, phono pre. I am trying to keep a minimalist approach.

Turntable: Thorens TD-150
Phono Pre: AudioResearch PH3
Amp: Decware MiniTorii
Speakers: DIY MarkAudio A12P in SuperPensil

Room Dimensions: 11' W x 12' 4" L x 10' H

So far I have been looking around at a lot of options and while I don't want to limit myself to 94 dB+ efficient speakers. I would like to be able to keep my Decware MiniTorii in place if possible.

LegacyAudio Signature SE is top on my list, little bit more than I wanted to spend, but this is a lifetime purchase. I have also looked at SalkSound Veracity ST but I am concerned about the Decware amps being able to push those. I have also looked at the Decware HR-1s which look impressive.

Of course its difficult to buy speakers without hearing them, any other recommendations/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has heard the Legacy Audio Signatures with a Decware amplifier and has any details, that would be spectacular.

Thanks,

Ron

hifiron

Showing 32 responses by hifiron

tls49, thanks that is hugely helpful... I might not be able to get away from upgrading to the Torii Jr @ 20 WPC.
Their Signature SE is 92 dB, which should be plenty for a 6 WPC MiniTorii.

If it doesnt work out, I will upgrade to the Torii Jr. which is 20 WPC.

The Reference 3A's are nice, but to get into the we're looking at 7500-8000 which is a grand more than the Sigs.

I will revisit the Salks as well...

Thanks for the input!

Ciao,
Ron
gdhal, what turns me off about the Golden Ear is the complexity of the electronics. I am really shooting for a minimal approach, which is what I enjoyed so much about the single driver speakers. I do realize that the Signature SE speakers are more complex with a crossover, so I don't have my heart set on them per se, but I want more flexibility in what I can listen to, something the Mark Audio A12P speakers I have today don't allow me.

The HR-1s I know will work with the MiniTorii, as well as being great with the Torii Jr if I decide to upgrade. I don't have a great deal of room to bring the speakers out into the room, so sealed speakers have its benefits.

Height is not an issue on these speakers, but I need to keep the width and depth closer to 14". My SuperPensils are 25" deep, it doesnt flow with the room that well.

Thanks again for the input!
@mtrot thanks for the pic, they are impressive towers for sure!

@bcgator yes, room is 11' W x 12' 4" L x 10' H.

@timlub definitely a little more than I originally wanted to spend, but this is a lifetime purchase and I don't want to be penny-wise and pound-foolish.

There is a great deal of research still to be done before I pull the trigger for sure. I do love the voicing of the Decware MiniTorii, but it does limit my speaker options for sure.

I am just a little turned off by most consumer tower speakers, and the boutique HiFi audio is for sure out of my price range. I think that is why Decware gear sits so well in my eyes, great performance:value ratio in my opinion.

That said, where we are. Am I ludicrous for looking at the Signature SEs for this room? Doug over @ Legacy said they would be a good fit for the room, since they are sealed they can be put fairly close to the rear well.


@grinnell good to know, I am not looking to make ears bleed by any stretch of the imagination. Ideally something that can handle a wide rang of music from Rock (Neil Young/Springsteen/Morrison) + Jazz (Coltrane/Davis/Evans) + Pink Floyd/Daft Punk and more.

I will check out the Zu line this evening as well, their prices are lower for sure.

Need to make a spreadsheet or two. :)

Thanks again!

R
@tls49 I have looked at the Zu's quite a bit, actually I was very close to pulling the trigger on the Zu Omen Mk.II towers right when I started looking for my refresh a few months ago.

I have to say, the amount of Zu Audio gear for sale on A'gon does concern me a little.
Note: I do like the Radian tweeter on the Zu speakers, the Omen Def Mk.II can have that tweeter added, the Druid comes with it.
Lots of great stuff here... need to continue to do some research on Zu...

Assuming I keep the amp, so far promising speaker options are:
  • Decware HR-1
  • Legacy Audio Signature SE
  • Legacy Audio Classic SE
  • Living Voice Auditorium R3
  • Living Voice Avatar 2
  • Zu Audio Omen Def Mk.II
  • Zu Audio Druid V
  • Reference 3A Edition BE
  • ProAc Response
  • AudioNote AZ-2 (Corner Loaded)
  • Tekton Brilliance
  • Tektop Seas Pendragons
Tomorrow will be full of research. Thanks again for all the discussion, have a great evening all!
Ok so made some great progress on the research. There is an audio store close that has Vandersteen 1Ci speakers. Going to bring them home today to audition.

Resetting the price point as well as normalizing efficiency has brought me to a much smaller list of speakers to look at.

Decware HR-1
Living Voice Auditorium R3
Zu Audio Omen Def Mk II w/ Radian Tweeter
Vandersteen 1Ci

I might be in the market to upgrade to Torii Jr or Torii Mk IV and potentially a pre-amp.

Progress!
Ok so after about 6 hours of listening, I am thoroughly impressed with the Vandersteen 1Ci speakers! The beauty is my amp is plenty powerful to push them to sound great at levels louder than I would listen to in this room.

In addition to that, they fit well in the room and are quite a bit lower than I was originally going to spend. Just going to spend some time noodling on the HR-1 v. 1Ci, both of which would be powered by my current amp just fine.

Thanks again for the input all!

Ciao,
Ron
Basically have narrowed it down to a more reasonable cost. Something I am more comfortable with.

Speaker Selection
  • Vandersteen 1Ci
  • Vandersteen 2Ce
  • Decware HR-1

Amplification
  • Keeping MiniTorii
  • Purchase Torii Jr
  • Purchase Torii Mk IV

Other Options
  • Replace PH3 with ZP3
  • Add CP3 Pre-Amp in front of MiniTorii for more gain

The Vandersteen 1Ci awards the most flexibility from a component perspective. I think adding more power than 4 watts per channel would be well received in the system. I could afford the massive Torii 25 watts per channel if I stick with the 1Ci or 2Ce.

The low end response at 26 Hz on the 2Ce is very impressive. That said, the 2Ce would require an upgrade to the amp to either the Torii Jr or Torii.

Back to spinning some wax!

Ciao,
Ron
So after quite a bit more listening, the Vandy 1Ci sound good, but the amp is just not enough power. I am going to be taking the Vandy’s back to the dealer today and start outlining a couple scenarios.

Thank you all for the amazing help and opinions here, this is a tomb of great information for anyone looking for options to pair with a low powered tube amplifier and/or speaker options for a smaller room.

It is worth mentioning, Decware Torii @ 25WPC would be a great fit for the Vandy 1Ci, but with Richard suggesting thats not enough power for the 2Ce (due to the more complex internals) that makes it a tough call to guess on.

The 2Ce also have a rear firing woofer, which makes the proximity to the back wall very important, so much that it would be tough in my small room.

The 1Ci with the Torii are an option for sure. I will be talking with Steve @ Decware today to get his take on some options.

Cheers,
Ron
@wester17 @bradf @nakamaye I am looking at the Spatial M line now... is this something that will function in this room. I don’t have the ability to pull the speakers far out into the room. Other words what type of breathing room do they need around them?

---

2Ce are going to need too much power, and the voicing of the Decware Torii is just too sublime for me to walk away from it.

The 1Ci + Torii seems like it would be a killer combo.
The HR-1 with the MiniTorii might work, but I feel that I may still want more power in the future.
At 94 dB the Spatial M3s might be something that I can look into and keep my MiniTorii going for some time.
Thanks guys, I'll give Clayton a call and see what he recommends. Might need to re-arrange the room.

Thanks!
Zu was great to talk to, the Zu Druid would be incredible, no amp change required.

Getting a lower priced speaker would give me the ability to get a different amp. Getting a different amp would def. give me more headroom regardless of speaker selection.

Tonight is going to be a good night full of research and red wine.

Ciao,
Ron
The more I read about the Spatial M3/M4 speakers the more intrigued I am by them! No amp change necessary on day 1. They're a happy price as well.
@wester17 with the Spatial M3’s either Turbo or Turbo S do you have an idea if a 4 Watt into 8 Ω SET amp would do them justice? My concern is the Spatials are 4 Ω and the MT drops in power as the load moves away from 8 Ω.

I will be calling Clayton today. Thanks!
Had a great discussion with Clayton!

After some advice, and exchanging pictures of the *challenging* listening room I have, the M4's would be the route to go.

I will be looking to refresh the amplifier. I do love the MiniTorii sound, but its days are numbered (at least in its current location).

Going to do some amp research tonight, Vandersteen 1Ci, 2Ce, or Spatial M4 S. All are fairly close and due to the reduction in price, do-able to get a nice amp at the same time!

Thanks,
Ron
@sbank yes, agreed. Looking at Open Baffles (Spatial), Radials (Decware HR-1) or the Vandersteens at this point.

I have only been able to hear the Vandersteen 1Ci in person, not enough power with my current amp, going to audition an amp with the 2Ce's this weekend perhaps.

Thanks,
Ron
@timrhu yes, good point to be made here. Coherency and blending of drivers is going to be key.

Discussions with Steve - Open Baffles were recommended, HDT was not. Too analytical for the room.

After treating the room, I have noise floor down to 29 dB, very happy with this. When I started I was at 45 dB.

Current plan is to audition the Spatial M4's and the Vandersteen 1Ci's together.

Then I can make a decision based on voicing and performance of the speakers. I am also going to audition a 60W Ayre Zero Negative Feedback amp, to show the performance of each speaker with more power.

Eventually I will be getting a new amp, but I want to upgrade one component at a time. My local dealer has a good deal, I can start with the Vandersteens, then within 1 year get the purchase price in credit towards the 2Ce's if I decide to upgrade.

Have a great week all!
@timrhu thanks! yes, I am going to mess around with some options.

Much happier price range for me, going to audition the Vandersteen 1Ci's again and get the Spatial M4 S in as well.

I am not going to change my amp at this time, the Vandersteens were able to play loud enough to hear them, the new amp will provide more headroom, but the Decware voice is what I am looking for in an amp.

Only making the speaker decision will make this much easier. Focus on Spatial M4 v. Vandersteen 1Ci. Then decide to get the amp later if more headroom/dynamics are desired.

Thanks for the input, will report back when both speakers are in place.
Absolutely! The Spatial M4 Turbo S's will be here on Saturday! The Vandersteen 1Ci's as well as a 60W Ayre AX-7 on Saturday as well.

I will be doing an audition of the 60W zero negative feedback SS amp as well as the Mini Torii. The Vandersteens will have to go back on Tuesday but I should get a good amount of hours in.

Stay Tuned!

Ciao,
Ron
@audiotroy thanks for the feedback, I agree, same with the Vandersteen 2Ce, too big for the room.

Also after talking with Clayton, he really outlined that the room nodes wouldn’t let a speaker play much below 40 Hz anyway.

I have just unboxed the Spatial M4 Turbo S’s, fantastic build quality. Great looking speakers too. Threw on some Jazz and the imaging blew me away. Put on some Pink Floyd and Neil Young and I was unimpressed... the bass was anemic and the treble was scratchy.

Initial quick run done, I am being true to the recommendation, don't really make any decisions before the first 24 hours. Ok, it was time to go pick up the Vandersteen 1Cis from the local shop to compare. While I was at the local shop, I also grabbed a Ayre AX7 (60W) to test with both pairs of speakers.

I put the Vandersteen 1Ci’s on my MiniTorii and honestly, I was much happier, they didn’t image as well, but they were more even, had much more bass, and overall easier to listen to.

This is where it get interesting... when I put the Ayre amp on the Spatials I got knocked out of my chair, again! The bass was there in full force, it was smooth and even, the highs weren’t nearly as bright (in a good way).

I have many more hours to put on the Spatials. I have high hopes, but it seems like I will have to be getting a new amp regardless of my speaker choice.

I have emailed Steve @ Decware to see if he has something that would match the more agressive load required by the Spatials.

Based on my room size and realistic price target (I don't know what I was thinking spending $6k on speakers) it is going to be down to the Spatial M4's and the Vandersteen 1Ci. They fit in the room well, and both have the potential to sound incredible.

Thats all for now, much more listening ahead.

Ciao,
Ron
@nakamaye and @wester17 what amps are you using to power the Spatials?

Thanks,
Ron
Thanks for the response @nakamaye  ! I am going to be doing some research on amps this evening for sure.

@martykl  -- yep, and I have opted to keep the Spatials and look for a new amp. They are just incredible and worth focusing on replacing the amp with something that has more power but still just as musical as my Mini Torii.

Thanks for the input. I agree 100% with your observations.

Ciao,
Ron
@gdnrbob yes, definitely worth a listen. It is worth mentioning they're very sensitive to listening position. For example, 1' from the wall and they sound flat. 1.5' and they have such an amazing soundstage that I would put up against speakers much higher in cost.

@nakamaye thanks for the input, I will check out that amp. Going to be a journey for sure. Looking forward to it!

Thanks,
Ron
@wester17 Nelson Pass's Adcom GFA-555 is great indeed. I am a convert to tubes, and while the Ayre AX7 I am testing sounds great, I want to get a tube amp with some more power.

I have had a conversation with Steve over at Decware and I am leaning towards the Torii Jr.

Let me know how you like the Primaluna!

Ciao,
Ron
Spent a bit of time with the Spatials. The highs are not mellowing out as much as I would like right now. Very forward, still sounds great, just not sure its something I want to commit to yet. I have tried it with Tube and SS amps, the Tube amp is by far the better choice.

I have 30 more days in the trial left to make up my mind. If I decide to send them back I will be looking at the 1Ci's or the Decware ERRx speakers. The Decware ERRx speakers, being radials, would be less in your face, which might be ideal of my room.
Yeah, in this price range, for a large space, the Spatial M4 is hard to beat. The Vandy 1Ci is much more suited for the smaller room in terms of enjoyable non-fatiguing highs.

A radial design might be the perfect sweet spot because of its crossover-less design for maximum transparency.

Vandy's will be the most forgiving for sure.

Doing some major thinking tonight, still have 2 more weeks for the minimum trial on the Spatials. Running for about 200 hours now.
@kalali you're 10000% correct. Which is exactly on-point to what I found.

@figulager So far the Spatials don't fit my listening style or room. In my larger living room they sounded much less fatiguing but still had the same "front row" listening experience. If that is what you want these are amazing for the price.

On the Spatials - Saxophone Colossus was jaw dropping, as well as basically anything acoustic. As soon as you started throwing more complexity I couldn't enjoy more than one or two songs.

Ultimately that is why I have decided to keep looking...

The Vandersteens were the most forgiving to many types of music. If you're looking for a pair of speakers for a small room, that sound great with a wide range of amps and will allow you to listen to pretty much anything. Stop there. They're great!

If you want some more resolution, less complex crossovers, and ultimately a more transparent speaker, then I will let you know when I found what I am looking for. I might end up going back to the Vandersteen 1Ci's if this proves to be impossible at this price point.

So what am I leaning towards? Nothing yet. Spatials will be going back after the 45 day minimum trial is up. I am still entertaining getting the Decware ERRx or Vandersteens.

Most importantly have fun making these selections. They can be tiring but the payoff is huge in the end.

Ciao,
Ron