That's a pretty small room for large speakers.You might want to think about some good monitors.Also,a square room is a lot,boomier,for lack of a better word.With your budget you can get an excellent pair of monitors and stands.The most important thing is this,don't let someone else pick your speakers for you,you will more than likely be disappointed in the long run.Use your ears,after all,you are the one who will have to live with them.Just a thought.Good luck with your system rebuild.
You might want to check out the DeVores and Verity @ In Living Stereo in Manhattan. Either would be very good for your application. You can also audition with Shindo amplification which pairs well with the DeVores, especially given your listening preferences.
Check out Diapason Adamantes.
I have owned and/or still own speakers from all three makers in which you have expressed interest. I have used Verity Fidelio Encores, Sonus Faber Auditor M's, and Verity Tamino's in my secondary system. That room is 13' x 19' and the speakers were necessarily positioned on the long wall. I listed those speakers from most preferred to least preferred WHEN PLACED IN AN APPROPRIATE ROOM. I really love the FE's but they just overpowered that room and I will soon be selling them. I believe the DeVore 9's and even the Verity Finn's would also overpower your room, given its small size. The SF's and the Tamino's worked really well in that room, especially the Tamino's, and so I ultimately went with the Tamino's in that room. They are an excellent fit sonically and musically for that room/system. I believe that monitors would be your best bet in your even smaller room. I highly recommend that you audition the new DeVore Fidelity 3XLs. They are cheaper than the Tamino's, Finn's, Rienzi's, SF Auditor M's, and DF 9's, but I have found them to be more musically engaging than any of those speakers.
Enjoy the journey!
If I were you I would try SH Sonus Faber Guarneri or Avalon Symbol N (fantastic speakers).
I own Verity Parsifal Encores and Sonus Faber Cremonas. I wouldn't let a pair of either get anywhere near a room of the size you're describing. Each is a wonderful speaker in its own way, both would need a significantly larger room to demonstrate that.
What about a Merlin Monitor for your room..This way you could add the Bass Module at a later date if and when moved to a larger room..That might be a perfect choice given your room size.
I'm sure you know by now that the size of your listening room will preclude you from owning many great speakers.
You are fortunate though that you are in an area that allows you to audition many brands and models.Try to arrange a HOME AUDITION for the speakers that appeal to you for sound,sight and size.Best of luck on your journey
Thanks everyone for the responses.
I also agree that I wouldn't think of using Verity Parsifals or Sonus Cremonas in a room that size. I am definitely going to listen to a lot of speakers and do as much in-home auditioning as I can, or at least bring my amp to dealers to try them out together.
I was hoping to find a good floor-stander that could also work in the room, so that it could also move into a larger room down the road, hence why the speakers I've gravitated towards are on the smaller side for floor-standing speakers (maybe with the exception of The Nines, although it's supposed to be somewhat easy to place, and could work well in a large room too).
I was under the impression that the Verity Finns replace the Taminos. They're certainly not huge speakers. And both they and the Liuto's don't dip below 35hz (40hz, for the liuto's actually). Can someone chime in with technical reasons they think these speakers may not work. I know, obviously, that it's optimal to hear speakers in your room with the gear you intend to use; however, if there's some technical/physical reason that these speakers, based on their specs, wouldn't work, I'd be curious to know.
Go to in living stereo and audition the nines and the finn. I believe the finn is better suited to your room. Steven should be able to guide you correctly.
One option you have that allows some flexibility down the road if your room size changes is to go with the Verity Parsifal Monitor. I have the Verity Parsifal Encores and when I first got them set them up with just the monitor and was really surprised how much I liked them, and that was going from a pair of Dynaudio C1's and before that special 25's. In a small room I think the Parsifal Monitors would really sing. You would not get the lowest bass but that is going to be a problem with your room no matter what the speaker. Then, if your situation changes down the road, you get the bass modules.
My room is about the same size as yours (except for higher celings).
I will treat the room as best I can, but WAF is a big issue.
If you don't feel the need to really focus on room treatments, you're wasting your time and money. You may as well buy headphones and be done with it. Room treatments do not have to be ugly (but they won't be feast for the eye, either). IMHO, it's still to spend that kind of money on speakers, drop them in a small room, and not put room treatments as a high priority.
Can someone chime in with technical reasons they think these speakers may not work.
I've never heard these speakers, but (one of) the general issues with floorstanders in a small room is that you have very little control over the interaction of the low end and your room. Granted, you can use a parametric EQ to help things out. I prefer to use monitors and a pair of subs.
You'll also want to make sure your speakers (and associated amps / pre-amp) resolve at low volumes. My system was designed for a small room (and I've very happy with the results).
Nrenter: Thanks for the info. What I mean about room treatments is that I will do what I can with conventional means to treat the room--rugs, fabric wall hangings to minimize reflection, and avoiding glass and other reflective materials in the room--but I can't start loading up on diffusors and bass traps, etc. I disagree, however, that it would be better to just get headphones though. With careful positioning and equipment matching I am confident I can get a smaller floorstanding speaker to excel in that room, its just a matter of which one. Sub integration can in fact pose just as much a challenge.
Hi Brookjoo. I've a somewhat similar room situation: 13'x 13' x 9.5'h, although the room is openish on two sides, which may make it a bit larger acoustically. Like you, visuals preclude my doing more elaborate room treatments. We have similar tastes in music, and I'm also considering an upgrade with about your price constraints.
I currently have small towers that do a lot of things well, particularly smaller scale music: North Creek Eska's. They are an MTM design for small rooms, and near-wall placement -- another advantage if WAF is an issue. I think the North line would be worth a look for you, though they will be hard to audition, as they are mostly kits -- though easy to assemble, if Lee Taylor builds the boxes.
My main complaint with the Eska's is a certain lack of heft in the lows, which seems to limit the drama for some music. I've been in contact with several manufacturers who say their stuff can work in my room: among the possibilities, North Creek's Big Cat, Devore Nines, Zu Essence, Green Mountain Audio Eos, FritzSpeakers Carbon 7, and Selah Audio Cima. Not easy, but I'm trying to audition them.
I'll be very curious to hear your thoughts and experiences. John
Brookjoo, I'm running a pair of Merlins VSM-MX in a 13' X 13' room, a perfect square, with excellent results. Many attempts were tried to use the speakers in a conventional way, but it was just impossible, until they were set up diagonally!
If you do a search, you would find some articles detailing the advantages of using a diagonal set up in a small room.
Good Luck to you.
Thanks Toudou: I thought of that too, but it won't work because of a closet and a window in the room.
Jdoris: I'll keep you updated about what I hear, starting now:
I listened recently to the Liuot's with an Audio Research Company VSi60 and an Ayre cd player (7xe or something like that). The sound was truly lovely. It was incredibly pleasing to listen to, my only nitpicks were that the soundstage was perhaps not as deep or as tall as my current setup, but I'm in a BIG room now. Frankly, in some ways I could have easily just bought that setup outright (minus the CDP) and been a happy camper.
I listened to the Nines a couple of weeks back with a friend, who is purchasing them, and loved them. I heard them with a luxman amp, I believe, which sounded authoritative and very natural--a striking combo. I heard them again at in Living Stereo recently, with a Leben amp. I really wanted to love this, because I love the look of the Leben, but I thought the Luxman was significantly better on the bottom end. I agree with what everyone says, though that In Living Stereo is a great place. If I go with the Nines I will probably go there. I'm going to go back and listen to the Finns I guess, when I have time.
I know there are some speaker brands out there that make speakers that are meant to be placed against the wall. Would that be an option?
I wouldn't rule it out, but would need them to be sold locally. I'll buy amps and other pieces of equipment without listening, because it's easy for me to ship if I don't like. Speakers, however, I prefer buying new from a dealer so I can listen to them, obviously, but also becasue shipping is a huge pain, and I like a warranty with my speakers.
Some seam to feel that I should go with monitors. I'll give a listen, but for some reason I'm not as sure about monitors. Will go back and listen to the DeVores. Any other monitors people think would be a good stand in for a smaller floor stander?
Brookjoo,which specific Luxman and Leben amps did you hear. I assume maybe they were integrated amps.
Did you happen to go Sound by Singer near Union Square and hear the Nines with the Pathos TT?
Has anyone out there heard this combo?
I heard the Leben CS600, and the Luxman 590A II. I preferred the Luxman, but it kicked out too much heat for the size of my new room, which is a bummer. It was also more than I can afford, which is the real bummer!
I've heard the Nines at both in living stereo and Sound by Singer. I didn't hear them with the Pathos, but imagine that's a great combination. I've heard the Logos and loved it. I'm a ways off from pulling the trigger because I'm not even in the new space yet, and actually really like my McIntosh, so I may end up having to bring it into the dealer I end up buying from to see how they mate, although I'm more interested in keeping whichever speakers I get long term than my amp. I'm lucky to have two great Devore dealers near me, because I had to drive out into Jersey to get my last set of speakers from the dealer, because they didn't have an NY dealer.
i think you should spend money on your difficult room first---small rooms are more treatable than some think.
otherwise, nothing is going to sound real good.
Brookjoo, I have the Super 8's and we have similar
tastes in music. The 8's do very well in small to
medium sized rooms and they only need to be about
two feet from the rear wall. These speakers look
small but they have a lot of musical weight.
They sound great with both tubes and ss gear.
I like to mess around with different integrated
amps. They sound great with my 15 watt Cary 300b SEI
and awfully good with my Naim gear.
With your musical tastes I think you would really love
the Naim gear with the 8's. I have the Naim XS with
the Teddycap. The Teddycap and Naim 12 feet speaker
wire are a must. Combine this with Synergistic Research
Tesla T3 power and other SR products and you can achieve
unbelievable musicality that is rich, detailed and
holographic. Its this musicality that grabs you and
pulls you into the music. You will find yourself listening
to entire albums and not just skipping from song to song.
I'm in a 10'X10' room and enjoying my Ref. 3a Dicapo i's . They are rear ported monitors but only @ 20" from the wall behind them . Also , I have them setup on the diagonal as mentioned above . Be aware , they don't have to be exactly on a diagonal plane . Some say that being off to one side more than the other is better , some don't . I do have some room treatments added , just corner and seam cushions from a company called 8th Nerve . These are not very big and obtrusive and can be colored to match your walls .
There is thread here which addresses speaker characteristics to look for . It was visited by a speaker designer whom contributed some very useful knowledge .
It is titled "How do you choose speakers based on room size" . It was initiated on 1-12-10 .
Good luck .
We need an update. Did you go Devore, verity, or another route? Or did you find Silverbacks at a garage sale and cram them in your room?
I just picked up a pair of second hand Nines for my 13 x 18 x 8ft LR and it fills that with sound with ease. But with the rear ports, I found they need to be 3 feet from the wall. So I wonder how you would do with those in your 10 x 10? I still have my Super 8s but have yet to compare them back to back...too busy listening to music! The difference is easily apparent in my room with the bass heft and body. I occasionally ran my Super 8s with a Martin Logan Abyss sub (12" driver) and there is no match--the Nines trump it for overall cohesiveness and balance. Though, the nines are just at the edge of being too much for my room size.
FWIW: Music is everything from Nick Drake to RL Burnside to Massive Attack. Fed by: Red Wine 30.2 amp + Modwright pre + Brick DAC
So let us know Brookjoo: speakers, amp, etc.....
Got the Nines and am working on tuning the room around them. Are they a little too much for the room: yes. Are they amazing; yes. I can always try out super 8's to see the difference, but I found a great deal and I'm happy.