chinese stuff with british beards. they don't even have the guts to say where they are made on their website.
54 responses Add your response
In at least some ways, the AMR stuff was some of the best I heard at CES. That was on Tuesday night. By Wednesday morning they had swapped out the Virtual Dynamics cabling and installed the AMR cabling and the system took a serious step downward. Nevertheless, we heard what it was capable of.
In fact, my colleague was using a Natalie Merchant recorded live cd to evaluate speakers/systems throughout CES and The Show. This particular test track contains an extremely difficult passage to reproduce without some type of dynamic flattening or breakup in the tweeter.
The AMR speaker was the only one of the 50 or so rooms we auditioned that passed with flying colors. Not only did it pass, but that complex passage soared to new heights cleanly and dynamically via the AMR system.
The Ascendo speakers came in 2nd. All other systems we heard failed to one good degree or another.
I'm keeping my eye out for the release of their prototype speakers they exhibited.
Overall, I thought their gear was intriguing and first rate sonically.
when a company hides its origins...they are not being honest, plain and simple....'designed in england and manufactured overseas' is comical. desiged by whom? and made where?.......heck, even a 'set of cups and saucers' contains more revealing info than many new so called hi end companies. make no mistake, they they be wonderful sounding amps and cd players, its just that at the end of the day, most start up companies are nothing more than marketeers with an office, a bankroll, and a chinese connection who offer a variety of products and services to 'anyone' who wants to jump in to what is 'at the moment', a tecnological gold rush. go to any website from 'hoover' to 'tonka' and you'll learn what real companies tell their consumers. they don't hide behind vague bs. a generic guitar may sound beautiful, but its still a generic guitar.
I have several friends who heard the CD player and were very impressed with both the sonics and build quality.The cd player weighs in at a staggering 93lbs and has been built to a very refined level from a manufactures standpoint ( to build the product anywhere else would add significantly to the cost ).There are a lot of companies that are building components for stuff in china and then assembling the products locally and calling it homemade! I think that many audio companies will have to go offshore to compete globally.I am very impressed with the level of refinement this player offers and the price is almost absurd when you look at the build quality and sonics that's on tap.I know that I would like to hoover and play with that Tonka toy!!Cheers Dennis
Hoover is being sold to a chinese company....
Further, Hoover has had a significant manufacturing base in Mexico for quite some time now and aparently contracts out even more work including to china....
Tonka aparently manufactures in China for more or less the last 9 years....
Jaybo, I think that AMR owns the factory that the players are built! My understanding is that they are not a Walmart of the world ( demanding and paying what they deem right)and have peolpe lining up to work at this factory because the wages are the highest in the province.What you are talking about is true disclosure and not even american companies truly disclose what is being produced.As far as consumer go,Walmart does a fantastic business even though they know sweat shop labour is behind the work.Please be careful about how you paint made in China and don't shop at Walmart if you do feel so strongly!Take care Dennis
Williamdc,obviously the player is not for the light of heart and should require a strong back as well! I think that a friend may be in order for installing this one but as you said " I am interested in anything Thorston does" is also how i feel as well. I am hoping that a friend puts up the stratch and brings this monster in soon ( even though I will be the one who gets the lifting honours). Take care Dennis
all major ticket items..tv's, autos, furniture, etc disclose manufacturing info. its not wrong (or bad) to buy products from any country, its just wrong for any manufacturer to hide behind the generality of 'overseas', particularly when they are asking us to make a major investment. many of these 'instant' hi end companies will disappear, no matter how nice they sound. a little history or info on their website could only help them, not hurt them.
Jaybo,owning a factory seems to me as a major investment as one may make!The declarations of a company would add to the credentials of said company and solidify the manufacturs image in the consumers mind.On the other hand ,Thorston's reputation is well established in the audio world,weither he feels the need to inform us is his privalege.I do feel that accountablity is a responsibilty for everyone-Cheers Dennis
I worked for the Brits for over five years and know that in Europe it is not common practice to describe the people behind a company and to disclose too much information about where parts are sourced and products manufactured. The reasoning is that the common perception in the UK and the rest of Europe is that customers like to focus on the product and "let the product do the talking".
At the outset, if AMR had dwelled on the people behind the company and where they manufacture but had yet to ship product, they probably would have been criticized for being "full of themselves" and not focusing on getting the product out, which ultimately is their main goal. Meanwhile, if you want to read a factual overview, in which they fully disclosed the structure of the company, check out the 6moons article I mentioned before.
I'm affraid we are not talking on topic here. The question was: did anyone hear the CD-player and what is his/her opinion regarding this unit? As a matter of fact I'm curious too about the sound of the unit. Is it analog-like similar to Audio Note or 47-Labs DACs or is it dynamic, transparent and spacious sounding like Accuphase?
Dazzdax, you are correct. But apparently Jaybo had something to prove.
Dazz, I don't think the AMR system was like any of the ones you mentioned. My initial post way above mentioned how this system (it was all AMR but with Virtual Dynamics cabling) and it soared like no other we listened to. See above for a few more details.
I don't usually get involved in answering threads but I feel compelled to jump into this one after reading some of the comments because I have been fortunate enough in having the AMR CD-77 on loan for almost 2 weeks at my home.
I currently own an EMM Labs CDSD transport and DCC2 Dac (original version). In addition, the dealer that lent me the AMR allowed me to take a Reimyo CDP-777 and a highly moded esoteric UX-3 for comparison purposes. I was able to compare all these very high-end pieces in my own environment with my own reference music. Better yet, I deliberately did not ask for the prices of the loaners, as I did not want my pocket to interfere with my ears or the musical experience.
Bottom line: As it always is the case, all of these different fine pieces of equipment had their own merits but going to the point of the original question, I would simply comment that the highest contenders were the EMM and the Reimyo CDP-777.
The EMM, with all its wonderful qualities of resolution and huge stage but to my ears, lacking in musical involvement. The Reimyo, with a very appealing "analog" flavor but with a much narrower and shallower stage, as well as less resolved.
You guessed right if you read that I left the AMR for last as in my estimation, it came out to be my pick as I felt and heard that it incorporated the best of the other two machines while bringing a resolute detail and an authentic musical experience. In my opinion, a musical source rather than a digital player.
The fact that the built quality, the very high quality parts and the appearance were superior. The price point (about half or less of the other two) was incredible. I learned about the price when I placed the order that I eagerly await for.
Whether the machine is designed in one place, the parts come from others and the assembly elsewhere, who cares! I bet you dollars to donuts that the finest orchestras in the world will have fine musicians playing well-made instruments that will both come from various parts of the world.
It is at the end about the music.
As a point of reference, my room is 13 x 19 x 8. My current source is the EMM combo. My amplification ASR Emitter II, Speakers are Kharma 3.2 and the Kharma woofer and cabling is Kubala Emotion and Electraglide.
If you wish to expand further details, do not hesitate to email me directly.
I have the weight of the player wrong,the player doesn't weigh 93lbs but comes in at a paltry 63lbs.Also the player has been put up against some pretty tough competition (Emm labs,essoteric,reimyo,) and has bested them all.The best part about the player is that it is affordable at 8500.00 retail and is actually a bargain in the price to performance level.Apparently the first shipment is due in sometime next 2weeks according to the distributor.I am waiting for the 6-moons review to get a feel for what the player can do!Hope this helps Dennis
I stand corrected.Audiofeil I thought that excitement made you feel like a kid again?Apparently' it is a musical monster that has a musical heart.I am jealous of you poor on order guys and please let us know where the beast stands in the CDP hierarchy.We are waiting with baited breathe_Cheers Dennis
I am anxious to take delivery; I don't want to minimize that. However, I've been in the hobby, and now business, too long to get excited over the latest release, flavor of the day, hot ticket, newest version, etc. etc. More often than not, it's more hype than substance.
So call me excited in an adult manner taking into consideration that all 57 year olds are not adults.
Come on you guys,
my wife is taking a nursing course and says that 40(me) is the next (20) and that 60 is the next(40)!!So that means you guys are only 40ish for what it is worth.I would like the chance to heft that behemoth around my place,I really admire the design of the player and think that AMR has left no stone unturned.As to the hype,I really trust Darren's critical ear (this guy seems to hear winners IMHO).So if you guys aren't feeling up to it,then send the unit my way and I will do a comparison for you ( of course that is if you guys are still around).Cheers Dennis
As a new AMR dealer anxiously awaiting my CD 77, I have the same feelings as Essential audio, and I have been in the industry for over 20 years! There are many people who are hailing the AMR as a true breakthrough, in both performance and price!
I do agree with Audiofeil that build quality alone does not mean that the AMR is that good, but there are many people that are really excited about this line and reviewers that I respect who have heard this player, are the same ones that are as excited as the dealers!
The importer told me the story about one of his customers who tried the AMR vs many of the other reference cd playback systems out there and the AMR bettered all of them and low and behold the very same gentleman chimed in with the very same findings and low and behold he bought one.
I have allways believed that engineering and build quality may lead the path to great sound, and I have studied the AMR's build quality in great detail and I have to believe that this is one of the most exciting products I have ever come across so yes I am excited, I am excited to be able to offer my customers the sound quality of a $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 digital front end for $8,500.00 and one that is stunning to look at and luxurious in feel and execution this is why AMR is going to be a break though line for now and in the future!
Come on Audiofeil and Essential you guys are both going to be dealers and you are questioning "breakthrough" in what AMR is offering? Then why are you going to sell it?
If an $8,500.00 expensive but still affordable CD player can better $20,000-$30,000.00 front ends and is chock full of innovative engineering isn't that a breakthrough?
If you don't believe in the merits of the products you are selling than why be in this industry? No one needs this stuff we sell it, own it, dream about it because we love these hand made works of audio art and are thrilled to get close to the art form which music is.
There have been true breakthrough companies in this industry some have created bold and exciting new technologies while others have raised the bar for sound quality and engineering at lower price points.
The sad thing with the industry is that we are not enrolling new younger buyers into the hobby and spreading the passion about what real music reproduction is all about!
If we don't get SOME new blood into the business we will all be dead so it won't matter if AMR is better than new Coke, just like new Coke we will all be gone!
I will step down from my soap box now, I would welcome constructive ways we can bring new listeners into our shops and spread the world that there is a real alternative to the dreaded B*SE and B*ng and Olf**en's and mass market crap and IPlod's and stuff.
Audiooracle, I agree with you in many ways, I have a 18 year old son who just can't appreciate the hobby we are in. Well he says that he does like the set-up and its cool but then he wants to know how much, when I tell him he just can't comprehend it. When he sees me with a new piece of wire or gear he juckles because he knows. I don't ever see him getting into this hobby nor any of his friends that I have met, they are all into Mac's, IPods and home theatre and not two channel.
I have heard the same about this new AMR player also and can't wait to hear it in my own system, hey if it can out perform my Accustic Arts combo I'll be buying one and put the extra coin in my pocket.
I just ordered the Oracle 2000 transport to hear it with my Dac to see if it betters my AA Drive.
I don't mention my lines as you do. I do not promote my lines as you do. I am not grandstanding as you are. You are nothing more than a self promoter using the "enthusiasm" angle as a means to do facilitate sales.
>>How about finding some products to sell and promote yourself?<<
See above. Unlike your shameless behavior, this is not the place.
Hi Bob, since yesterday I am the proud owner of a CD-77. I had been looking to replace my Jadis JD3 that had been showing first mechanical signs of its age and had been auditioning a few machines in the EUR 10k-range including Burmester 001, DCS P8i and Accuphase DP-78 to find that I was not going to fork out the money for the sonic improvements (if any) they could deliver. Meanwhile, Jadis had priced themselves out of my budget, so the quest began for the outsiders.
I stumbled across AMR's website at a time when they did not even have a distributor in Germany, but could arrange with the Benelux distributor for an audition in my system. What followed was an jaw-dropper as I had experienced only once before (Tidal speakers, sure enough). I know it has become a cliché but I'm going to say it anyway: we just sat bathing in music. Mind you, the CD 77 delivers each and every detail on the cd, prominently, but it doesn't single it out and throw it at you to the dreaded extent (to me at least) that you find yourself counting notes and single noises; instead, musical flow, timing and naturalness (listen to clapping of hands!) are breathtaking. Have I heard better? The Naim CD 555 perhaps, but that was not in my system and I may have been led astray by the cranked up volume, and hey, at EUR 23k it had better be very good.
Delivery took three months but, as explained in a letter of apology from AMR, this had to do with some building parts not meeting expectations and mechanical improvements (I suspect to make it fit for dropping unharmed from a roof-top). And so I come to the topic of built quality. Having had to return both my Quad prono-stage as well as my iMac within the first few months after their purchase, both assembled in China, I had become extremely sceptical of the latter - no offence meant. Not the least bit of conspiciousness appears remotely justified here, matter of fact, this is more an example of what "Made in Germany" used to stand for (look at those handmade top of the range turntables, you'll get the drift). I was happy that the distributor has delivered the machine for the audition as well as my own player personally and carried the almost 50kg shipping weight to the second floor himself.
I had the opportunity to hear a demo of the AMR on Thursday at the local dealer. Incredible build quality and the sound excellent. Large sound stage, detailed but not obnoxiously so, and quiet. An excellent presentation of the music that initiated a lot of foot tapping.
One negative from my perspective. This thing runs as hot as some tube amps I have encountered. Put my hand on the side panel and could only leave it on there for a couple of seconds. Perhaps it was a lack of ventilation from being on a middle shelf in the rack. In any case that was the only thing that bothered me about the player. Overall it's a winner.
I received mine a few days ago.
Outperformed my Esoteric UX3SE in every area just out of the box... i setup a HTPC with ffdshow for the DVD playback using the USB link to the CD77... now i got a better picture and a clearly better sound.
It's more detailled than the Esoteric but at the same time more natural, fuller, the voices especially.
Analog sound with digital accuracy.
Ndeslions, now that's hard to believe. But only because the UX3SE is such a phenomenal unit.
I heard the ARM setup at CES and thought in some ways the system was among the very best at the show and in other ways the very best.
But it also was impossible to distinquish the cdp's performance from the rest of the system at CES. And they had some great sounding prototype all-aluminum speakers.
I'd be interested to hear more after the unit has burned in after 50 - 300 hours.