I closed a deal to purchase a subwoofer here on Audiogon Oct. 9th and sent my payment information immediately. On Oct. 28th I canceled the deal because three promised shipment dates had been missed and the sub still hadn't been sent.
I told the seller that I no longer felt good about the deal and wanted to cancel. I informed him that if the sub was sent, I would have to leave negative feedback, but if I were to receive a full refund I would call it even and not leave any feedback.
It's a very unfortunate situation because the seller had excellent feedback and I was excited to get this sub. The packaged sub is very heavy and the seller said he needed help in getting it from the 3rd floor where it resided, down to the ground floor where it could be shipped from.
He was apologetic and agreed to refund my money. It's been six days and still no refund, I hope everything turns out, and I don't get stiffed. I do have one source of recourse though. My payment was made via Mastercard directly to the manufacturer of the sub who acted as a middle man for the transaction. I've already received a statement reflecting the charge. I'm sure if anything goes wrong I can work something out.
Question for everyone: If my refund is lost in transit to me who is responsible? I told the seller as long as I RECEIVED a refund I would call everything square.
There is a flip side to this coin, I wanted to purchase an item here not to long ago(listed in the classified's, NOT an auction) and sent an email to the seller that I wanted to purchase the item at asking price please get in touch with me and we can sort out the details. Well this particular member had mixed feedback(though far more positive), so I wanted to be VERY sure I was comfortable with sending them 3k plus shipping. Well he didn't get back to me for 6 days! I didn't walk I ran from that deal, what if I had a problem- what would happen?
In any case I agree that must be a true pain, having someone agree to something and then they back out of it. I have had some weird things happen selling gear(not sure if any of you remember the blood type story.....but any way) but no one has ever backed out of a deal. I have had a few people disappear on me though- which that is kinda weird as well. The last two big components I sold-amp and speakers, went to seperate parties and they never told me when/if they recieved the package or if they liked it, which is weird in this hobby to hear no feedback from a sale. I confirmed with the shipper that they did recieve the package and I sent more then a few emails asking if everything was ok, and no reply. I left the appropriate feedback for these individules(positive) and never got any in return(not the end of the world) just an oddity to say the least.
Well, I've been on both sides of this. I've waited for a MO that never came.(and such)-- I have also changed MY mind,as well. When I change my mind I at least tell the person.AND an honest "why".--The MO that never came--?--never heard from that person again. I think we are just dissapointed the deal didn't go through-- Whether buying or selling. No sense getting to emotionally upset over this.-----I also think it's just part of life on the WWW. Let me tell you here and now; I'm human and not a "perfict" one at that.
I was told money order was mailed it never arrived tried contacted the buyer numerous times with no reply.
Shipped EAD transport to a party UPS tracking shows delivery
signature no reply to communication attempts.
I found a pair of speaker that I wanted to buy. Contacted the seller. Had everything set up. So I thought. He had agreed to sell them to me, but never got back to me. When I contacted him again, He told me that he had sold them for a higher price. I was paying the price that he had wanted on his classifed add. I asked him why he would do that, and he told me to f*** off. I should have check his feedback. He has done that numerous times. Afraid if I leave him a negative feedback, he would leave me one too. Even though he has no reason too.
Just my two cents...If someone commits to either buy or sell, they should honor their commitment. Exceptions being the person you are dealing with is unresponsive or very difficult to deal with. I also feel that if you have a bad experience you should leave negative feedback reflecting this experience. We all rely on the feedback system to determine our risk either buying or selling. Not leaving negative feedback when it is deserved is an injustice to all Audiogon members. Lets face it folks, there are crooks out there. I know firsthand as I had a bad experience buying a McIntosh tuner a few months back from a Audiogon member. Besides leaving negative feedback I also filed a dispute & his Audiogon account was closed. That's the only tool we have to weed out dishonest people.
Happy to say that of the many items that I have bought and sold on AudiogoN,..only one went bad. With that exception, everyone I have had contact with, buyers, sellers and A'goN staff have been a joy to meet...via the "net".
The one that went bad did not cost me any money, only time. I had an item for sale in mid 2001. I accepted an offer from that person..and then a series of e-mails brought no response. I kept at it for some time, then by Sept. of 2001 I did leave neg. feedback for that person(first time I had felt like it needed to be done). Interestingly, 7 months later that person left neg. feedback for me! Since that time this person did cost someone else some serious money on a speaker sale.
The only thing that we have to go by is a buyer or seller's feedback. However it is always good to ask if they have feedback on any other site...like ebay.
If you get a feeling that something is not right with a buyer or seller..before you make the deal, walk away from it. Trust your feelings before you make the deal. And always cross check the neg. feedback...if a buyer and seller both leave neg. feedback for each other on the same deal..you can usually read through it and see where(whom)the problem was.
In addition, to Hifidreams and others above....you have to leave neg. feedback when someone is dishonest...if you don't then the feedback forum won't work and someones else will get taken by that same buyer/seller. If you look up a person's feedback and decide not to do business with them because of too much neg. feedback..then other A'goN members have done you a huge favor...Shouldn't you also do this for other members? Like I said above if you state the facts and keep the emotions out of your neg. feedback..then you have nothing to fear..because the bum that's in the wrong if they leave neg. feedback for you...will likely be emotional and sound stupid..that's why you must cross check neg. feedback for both parties in a situation, and see who caused the problem!
Boy,did I go to school. After a 2 hr. phone conversation I sent a pair of wires to a member.Postal COD. I had no idea at the time one could pay with a personal check.--The check bounced. I stated this on his feedback.It took 5 mos to get the wires back and the NEGATIVE "he" left for me, removed.---Kinda gutsy,on his part!-- Guess what--15 months later I'm reading one of these dispute threads-- my same guy had screwed another member-- He got away with it because the other guy is just starting out here and "bought" the negative back,if you will. I emailed the new victim--those were his words.---Right there in Audiogon's guidelines it says you can't use past episodes or dealings.(Inadmissible) Anyway, this guy is still here with a different email / user name. Will you be his next victim?--There are a few ways around the feedback system.
For the first time, ever, I backed out of a deal. There was a CD player for sale here and the ad indicated the unit had a new transport installed and the player was in great shape both physically and sonically. Since the ad was a "OBO" I contacted the seller to make a reasonable offer. He responded with a higher price than the orginal ad...claiming that the power supply was recently changed as well! We finally came to an agreement on an equitable price and I was supposed to meet the gent the following week (he has a store) and exchange cash for the player. The transport AND power supply had crapped out? Got me thinking, my gut said something was amiss. I went to Audioreview.com to research the item more carefully, and man there was a ton of horror stories about this CDP. Very common for the transport and/or power supplies to repeatedly fail on this item. The combination of the up-front discussions re. the transport/power supply and the product reviews caused me to drop a note to the gent and advise him that due to product reliability concerns I would not be buying the unit from him. He responded, less than happy with me to say the least.
I almost went ahead with the purchase for the sake of maintaining a "perfect record" but the more I thought about it, the more I became convinced that backing out was the right thing to do. I often try things for a while then sell it, part of the fun of the hobby. In good consicence I could not sell something problematic to someone, so I shouldn't be expected to buy a problem either. Even though this item was made by a well-respected manufacturer that I have auditioned in my system a few years ago,I would have been smart to read up on the unit before considering buying it. "High end" does not imply high quality. Lesson learned. In any event, although the seller was pissed at me he did not leave negative feedback.
I just had a gent call me on Thursday about the sub I have for sale here on the 'gon. We spoke for about 20-25 minutes. He asked all the usual questions and I answered them all to his satisfaction, as he confirmed when we agreed on the sale price and he asked me to confirm shipping and insurance costs, which we agreed to split as part of the deal. I asked him to confirm all the details of our agreement in an e-mail and I would e-mail him back to except the terms and finalize the details (shipping address, payment arrangements, ext.). He sent me the e-mail. I e-mailed him back and called him to confirm my accepting the deal. I wait for a reply. I wait and I wait. On Friday evening I call him again and he tells me he was just about to e-mail me, that he has changed his mind about the sub and was considering a bigger sub. I asked him, rather sharply, why he did not contact me as soon as he received my e-mail or voice mail. He said he had not checked either. He did apologize but I am not happy or satisfied. I am a professional and I conduct every aspect of my life as such, especially my involvement in this hobby because I know their are people out there that take this passion for audio just as seriously as I do. As such, I feel this person was about to leave me hanging and if I had not called him I may have been waiting for god knows how long for this, (ah hum), gentleman to get off his butt and let me know that he changed his mind. UNEXCEPTABLE!!!!! John
Its ok John we except ;o) your correction
My pet peeve are the people (both members and non-members) who email you saying that they want to buy the advertised item. After you accept their offer, you never hear from them again and they won't reply to your emails. This freezes the selling process for a period of time while I try to determine if the transaction is legit so I don't commit the same discourteous behavior in the other direction if the buyer just got busy at work, for example.
I know the difference between a "would you take" inquiry and an offer that is both extended and accepted, and these are in the latter category.
I've had this happen so many times (at least a dozen times) that I'm starting to wonder if they have computers in prison and I'm getting emails from prisoners who just want to talk to someone and pretend they could be buying some nice component.
I would say about 40% of the people who say they want an item back out usualy with no notice, most are non members and people with low feedback.I have sold 100s of items on the gon and most high feedback members are great .but the big problem to me is that people expect perfect items for a 3rd of retail or less.Or the guys that ask ?s that are answered in the add .Or the 25 email guys who never buy ,usually they want a call on your dime too.What can ya do ...
I have had too many buyers who say they want the item, then never write back, and many of these were members. I had a buyer who said he'd mail the check......the check never arrived nor did any more communication. This tied up my amplifier for two weeks. He was a non-member. I had someone strongly commit to an item yesterday after wanting me to call him in Canada, then he later emails me changing his mind. Part of business on the web.....
I think the key to a sucessful sale for both parties is communication.
I have extensive eBay experience and some people are very "shy" with the communication.
I think they feel it invades their privacy or something!
I emailed a guy three times about a CDP I wanted to buy before I got a response. Item has been up for 21 days!!!
Weird I think people forget about their items that are for sale or I don't know what?
New to 'gon my eBay identity: Joshcloud9 http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=joshcloud9
I've had my share of both buyer & seller backouts, which can certainly be frustrating, but they do not warrant feedback of any kind. If that were the case then the feedback system would be worthlessly clogged with useless trival bitching (he spelled my name wrong etc).
You can deal with whom you chose, & when something feels fishy I trust my gut instinct & shy away without remorse.
I have had someone back out of a deal after he had my money. He decided he did not want to sell the phono section he listed. He sent me back an extra hundred dollars which did nothing to assuage my disappointment. I didn't want the money, I wanted the phono section. He later relisted the item at the same price.
I should have left negative feedback! Feedback should be left for every transaction. My feedback might have prevented some one else from having the same lousy situation occur with them. Would Bob bundus want to have some jerk stiff him on a deal that wasn't going to go through and have his money floating around for a month? Would he want to be without the product he made a "good faith" deal to purchase?
By all means; leave negative feedback for the people who deserve it. They make other people nervous about buying from the good sellers!
if money or property changes hands then feedback is in order
any other cases it is absolutely not permitted since no transaction occurred, only negotiation
if everyone tries to make up their own rules about "who deserves what" then the system fails everyone
& is useless
I backed out of selling a pair of maggie 3.5R to a seller for his rudeness and lack of respect for my wife and myself.
He was going to pick them up and I told him not to bother in that I did not want him in my house! I then sold them to the next buyer and I drove two hours to deliver them. He was very appreciative and paid me extra even though I had not asked him for it.
I would do the same all over again! By the way(non-buyer) he gave me negative feedback.
My realistic viewpoint is that there are all types of people, just like in "brick & mortar" retail. Some flake and some don't. Anyone who has done retail consumer sales can tell you that people are nuts. On here, a deal is never completed until I have the money or the product. Can't be disappointed if the deal doesn't go down. It's the price you pay for having practical access to a world full of buyers/sellers!
If anyone is referring to me regarding me not leaving feedback for the guy that didn't ship me the subwoofer after I waited three weeks, well I may have to go public with some information because it's been two months and I still haven't received a refund from the manufacturer who transacted the deal.
While I promised not to leave negative feedback, I realize that I'm doing a disservice to my fellow Audiogoners by not leaving a warning.
If I don't get my 1900 bucks soon, I will reveal in a thread the name of the Audiogoner and manufacturer involved.