My current rig is a Victor CL-P2/TT-81/UA-7082 and I've been very pleased. It replaced a Technics SH15B1/SP-15/modded Rega RB250 and gives me both better sonics and much more flexibility. My counterweight droops a bit but I don't believe it degrades the sound; just lowers the counterweight towards the stylus, right? Regardless, it's a great setup and I think you'll like your UA-7045. What motor will you you be using?
Well it came with a nice TT 61, a rare unit only found in Japan it seems. Not quartz locked though. I started looking around and came across a recapped and serviced TT 71 for an awesome price so it sits in my plinth now. The specs on the TT 71 and TT 81 are the same for speed and wow and flutter so I figured it's good enough. I do love the digital speed readout on the TT 101 though.
The more I learn about Victor and the engineering that went into this series the more I like them. They really were on top of their game and were a big supplier to Micro Seiki and others as well.
I was very impressed with the workings when I took the one I had apart before sending it back.
Not to send bad vibes, however, don’t be drilling any holes yet,
the thing could get destroyed, and even if perfect, you might find a great 7082 an hour from now.
Patience, until you have the bird in hand.
Bill, in my opinion, you are way overthinking this. I would just go to a good hardware store and find a tiny O-ring of the proper size that does the job. Although I have never yet replaced the rubber donut in my own 7045, I have seen that most good hardware stores have O-rings that would work. I see no need to be anal about casting a perfect replica.
lewm, o-rings won't fix the problem if the rubber is deteriorated to the point that it is falling apart. You can add all the rubber you want to the exposed section of the tonearm and make the stub stick straight out but if the square head of the bolt touches the small collar that holds the assembly in place than you have lost the damper effect. Might as well epoxy it in place as a rigid unit at that point.
I would like to develop a permanent solution that fixes it forever. Urethane doesn't degrade like rubber.
When new the square head of the bolt when tightened deforms the end of the rubber bushing and pushes it into the notches of the collar, there is no metal to metal contact.
Bill, Now I am not sure what it is you want to replace. I had assumed you are talking about the rubber (I used the word "rubber" as a catch-all; I did not mean to insist on rubber in the formal sense) donut that provides decoupling of the CW assembly. So what are you referring to when you say, " if the square head of the bolt touches the small collar that holds the assembly in place than you have lost the damper effect"? Obviously you would choose a replacement part that does the job right. Incidentally, these days you can buy O-rings made from just about any variant on rubber that makes sense. Just go on-line to McMaster-Carr or there is another site that specializes in O-rings per se. Neoprene and urethane and etc are probably available. In fact, it would probably be more difficult to buy an O-ring made of conventional "rubber", if you wanted to.
By the way, I have written this elsewhere many times in the face of Chakster’s insistence that the CW has to stick out the back like a full-blown erection, there is some mechanical advantage to having a slight droop such that the center of mass of the CW lies in the plane of the LP. If you notice the design of modern tonearms, like the Triplanar and the Reed and etc, that’s how they do it intentionally.
lewm, you don't seem to understand that there is rubber inside and on the other side of that short aluminum piece that is attached to the pivoting collar. That must be replaced as well. The brass bolt must never touch any other metal except the stub that it screws into.
The original rubber piece was a molded part and it's the best way to replicate it. It's actually a very simple shouldered bushing with a hole in the middle. Very easy to make a mold up.
As far as o-rings I have o-ring kits in both inch and metric as I am a service tech. I also have an account at McMaster Carr, the main warehouse is only 35 minutes from me.
I'll have to take mine apart to see what you are talking about. It's only apparent from the outside that there is the one black rubbery donut that creates the decoupling of the joint to the shaft that holds the CW. Do you mean to say there is another non-metallic part inside? Have you got a schematic or diagram? My 7045 is not in use, so I haven't had to worry about it. I replaced it in the context of my QL10 with a Fidelity Research FR64S. (QL10 = TT101 + plinth + tonearm, originally either a 7045 or 7082.)
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/analogue-source/619994d1496782254-jvc-ql-7-counterweight...If you look at the picture you will see that the brass bolt does not touch the aluminum ring, the rubber gets pushed into the notches and is trapped by the square head of the bolt. This gives total isolation of the tonearm stub when assembled. That small bit of rubber doesn't need to deteriorate much before the stub and counterweight droops.
I think this point is often overlooked when folks repair these arms. They let the brass bolt come in direct contact with the ring, this will render the damper as ineffective.
I also bought a Victor 7045 in Japan some time ago and luckily the rubber damper holds the weight very well, so I only sent it for a complete overhaul in a technical laboratory, but I also own a QL7 with the same arm but built in simpler way, where the damper had yielded and the counterweight had dropped dramatically.
I repaired it myself with the rubber gaskets for sealing the taps and it started working excellently.
If you can make the mold to build your own rubber damper that’s a great idea ... you could do business with manufacturing many rubber dampers for the many UA 7045/7082 arms around the world.
A tip: the vintage tonearms bought used must always be revised if you want to keep them in perfect efficiency as new; bearings with hardened and out of tolerance grease, and a lot of dirt stuck to it... hardened and dried out connecting cables, lifter not work or without siliconic grease and other problems that are not noticed take functionality away from the initial design and the cartridge will never track to the best of its ability.
Around $ 150 should always be budgeted for an overhaul when buying a used vintage arm as they are delicate mechanics like watches; Have you never had your famous brand mechanical watch serviced? I really hope not otherwise it would be very bad.
I own a UA 7045. I ended up using a piece of delrin rod, turned down to fit and cut to stub length, center drilled and fitted with a small bolt onto which the counterweight stub could thread onto, plus some neoprene washers, so the counterweight is effectively decouple from the arm assembly. Total cost out was about $15 for the rod, hardware and washers.
bukanona, I have samples of different durometers of urethane coming to me. That way I can try and compare the original rubber to the urethane I'd like to use. Of course the rubber is probably somewhat changed after close to 40 years so it's all going to be a "best guess". It's going to be one of the softer durometers I'm pretty sure of that. It it was hard and firm I could simply machine it out of urethane barstock. The softer material doesn't machine well at all. Hence the casting research. If the UA-7045 works well as is I may just run it like that for awhile as well.
Well it wasn't supposed to arrive till Wednesday but it came this afternoon. Very well packed, I paid extra for having it repacked. DHL works on a holiday!
So far this far exceeds my expectations, it looks like brand new and has zero tonearm sag!
Not sure when I'll get to my buddy's shop to use his Bridgeport, I'll need to bore a hole out to mount it.
It's an absolutely beautiful piece of engineering and craftsmanship. Even the tonearm lock is at a whole another level compared to any tonearm I've handled before. The "On the Fly" VTA collar works as smooth as a focusing ring on a high dollar camera. The anti skating adjustment is smooth as silk as well. When set to zero the arm stays where you put it and as soon as you start dialing a little bit in it will start to swing. Very sensitive!
I'm very happy.
Now I want to find a UA-7082 in this condition. That may take awhile.
Sounds like you got a great deal there Bill.
I had both a tt81 in a cl92 plinth and a tt71 badged as a qla7.
The 81 cw 7082.
The 71 cw 7045.
The 7082 did suffer some minor droop which may have effected it as it just never sounded quite as nice as the 7045 which was near perfect.
I agree the build quality is amazing and the vta adjustment is very slick, possibly only surpassed by my present micro Seiki ma505ls arm.
Thanks guys. Currently I’m using a JVC QL-A7 with the UA-5045 tonearm that has auto lift. It’s a nice tonearm but this is even much, much nicer than that. Fit and finish on this reminds me of a high end camera. This doesn’t even have any minor scratching on the tonearm tube. Who ever owned the table this came off of either was fastidious about using it or never used it. I can’t wait to hear it.I’m going to mount my retipped DL-103S on it. Has an elliptical stylus. Tracking will be around 1.8Gr. How have you found the anti skating adjustment to be? I don’t have any of the fancy setup tools to check it. If I set the adjustment to 1.8Gr will it be very close?
Bill, In days of yore, some advised setting AS equal to VTF, but I think in this "modern" era, no one would advise you to do that. Now will come a flood of advisories on AS, but what I do is to start out with the most minimal amount of AS that is achievable with the particular tonearm I am using. If I hear distortion in the L channel, I will tick up the amount of AS until that distortion goes away. The required amount of AS is always way less than VTF. This is all by ear.
my two simple tools to refine anti-skate:
most alignment disks (important tool to have in ant case) have enough smooth surface to see the arm react/move in/out while adjusting anti-skate force.
Mine is 2 sided, strobe rings on other side, so I use the alignment side, bouncing merrily over the grids, then the important smooth area. I wonder if this single sided one, no strobe, if the other side is smooth, anyone know?
I spin it manually, check it at 3 locations, inner, center, outer areas.
adjust to get very slightly in at inner area, essentially no movement center or outer areas. don’t even look at the indicator dial, just reality.
next, your ear, much nicer than test tracks
side 2, tracks 2 and 3 all 3 guitarists, if you hear the l/r equally, the center distinct and centered, the applause equal then you have it! make a minor adjustment, you willl hear it.
Of course, you have to be assured your system is truly balanced before doing this.
I use this CD. Is Cassandra dead center? This will help prove system balance.
CD version to prove system balance because you cannot yet rely on TT anti-skate setting.
Then use the 3 guitarists for a precision anti-skate adjustment.
Cassandra LP version for more delight, she should still be dead center
Elliot, I am not sure what you are recommending, so maybe I am off base in the following statement. If you are recommending setting AS using a smooth, i.e., grooveless, portion of an LP, or a test LP that has no grooves at all, or that alignment protractor which is not even made of vinyl, seen in the URL you cited, then I suggest this is not a good idea. Because the skating force (the force you are trying to counter when you set the AS force) is caused by the friction force of the stylus tip in the groove. An LP with no grooves does not accurately reproduce the skating force you are trying to equalize. Moreover, that alignment protractor you've recommended is not even made of vinyl, so it's a worse tool for setting AS than even a blank LP. Apologies if I have misunderstood your previous post.
Currently I’m using a JVC QL-A7 with the UA-5045 tonearm that has auto lift. It’s a nice tonearm but this is even much, much nicer than that.
Were you aware that the tonerm barrel has a treatment that makes it shielded and non-conductive? Do not you believe it?
Take a tester and try to connect the tips in "diode test" mode on the barrel and you will see that the tester remains silent, yet the barrel is in real metal!!!
What and how they built the arms 40 years ago was a gold age and marvel.
The tonearm tube is a aluminum -magnesium alloy. Anodizing the tube after it's made creates a thin protective layer of aluminum oxide. Anodizing is also an effective electrical insulator, it's why so many heatsinks are anodized.
I agree totally about tonearms and even DD motor drives that were built back than. It was a golden age and better products are very few and far between.
There is a current thread about "Tonearm Inspiration", chakster gives his short list of tonearms that he recommends and they are all beautiful crafted Japanese tonearms with a big following. Most are far cheaper than the new arms built today but prices for nice examples are slowly creeping up.
didn’t mean to be curt, just had to go
It is NOT the grooves that make the inner motion, it is a natural force that occurs, and is proportional to tracking force.
here’s a video of blank vinyl lp showing the natural inward arm movement and cancellation of that inward ’pull’ by anti-skate adjustment.
amazon (and others) sells a blank lp for that purpose
The anti-skate, increased/decreased anti-pull, is to get the stylus ’floating’ in the groove, not pulling against either side
1. preventing wear of both stylus and grooves
2. ready for ’equal’ reaction to l/r side wall information
3. allowing the tip to go deeper in the groove, allowing improved contact with both groove walls, ready for some movement of the cantilever via hills, valleys, caverns
4. anti-skate is more critical with advanced stylus shapes, both to get the advantages of their increased side wall contact area, and avoid damage misalignment can produce.
5. advanced stylus last longer, and do less damage to the groove walls, ONLY IF they are properly aligned, vertical azimuth very important, and if anti-skate gets them to float in the groove.
6. longer life og advanced stylus shapes also depends on proper alignment and anti-skate.
that is why, after I set it physically via no grooves, I then use my specific 3 guitarists tracks and refine the adjustment by ear. And, re-check it from time to time. As I say, use the CD versions to prove your system is properly balanced prior to using the LP version for anti-skate refinement.
Based on my use of advanced stylus shapes, I would never use a tonearm without anti-skate adjustment.
I have also found, when anti-skate is correct, even after my scrub cleaning of some dirty lps, the first play, the stylus, further down the groove, will dig out some very fine white dust/fuzz way down in there, gone on 2nd play. If not properly adjusted, it will not get low enough in the groove to dig that stuff out. Another indicator it is correct.
Misaligned: I got a seriously warped lp for my birthday, President Johnson's speech signing the Civil Rights Law 1965
even with heavy weight on, it bellied up in the center. Current events, I played it like that. After side one, there was a long thin string/ribbon of black vinyl, the stylus had cut into the side wall, carved it out just like a recording cutter carves the vinyl away. That is a much exaggerated display of misalignment. I'm gonna get a 10lb can of .... to hold it down flat before playing it again. Horray for monster direct drives like my JVC TT81 that can take a lot of weight!
Now, I use my fairly new alignment lp, it has enough smooth surface, it bumps over the area with grid lines, and I do not use the TT motor, I spin it by hand, Eventually it will develop some grooves cut by the stylus tip, and I will then buy a blank lp.
Elliot, No need to apologize for being curt. I enjoy these discussions, and I view them as a way to learn from others here. We are a very tiny fraternity of people who have even the slightest interest in most of these subjects, so vigorous debate makes us all better.
Your latest post is such a bewildering panoply of statements that I agree with and statements that I find completely incorrect that I will not try to dissect it all right now. But your opening statement was this: "It is NOT the grooves that make the inner motion, it is a natural force that occurs, and is proportional to tracking force."
Please tell me what is the "natural force"? VTF does affect the magnitude of the skating force in that higher VTF generates more friction in the groove. But without the force of friction (which is impossible in the real world) there would be zero skating force. I don't really care how many blank LPs one can buy on Amazon, nor do I care how many others set AS using a blank LP, the fact is that using a blank LP is not a rigorous way to set AS, because of the lack of grooves. Your alignment protractor, while it is probably fine when used as an alignment protractor, is an even worse tool for setting AS, because so far as I can tell, it is not made of vinyl. Hence the coefficient of friction between its surface and a diamond stylus is going to be different from that of vinyl to diamond. Now, when all is said and done, setting AS is always going to be sloppy, because during the course of playing an LP, the skating force is constantly varying in magnitude all across the surface of an LP, if you are using a conventional pivoted tonearm. Thus there is no one perfect setting for AS, which is why illogical methods for setting AS can sometimes "work". But it's best to understand at least the theory behind the process.
Just to tease, this is NOS Victor UA-7082 with NOS MC-L10 cartridge.
And again, this NOS sample does not have any problem with rubber grommet (just like my ex NOS 7045). The armlift is also nice and smooth. This long tonearm is so beautiful and easy to use and adjust. Yet another image of the same NOS Victor 7082. Why vintage tonearms are so beautiful while most of the new tonearms even for 10 times higher price are so ugly?
Chak, You've expressed one man's opinion.... Your own. I would not agree categorically that vintage tonearms are more "beautiful" than modern tonearms (whatever that means in describing a device that is actually a tool). Modern tonearms do tend to look different from vintage tonearms in the sense that materials science has advanced over time, allowing for the use of new plastics, carbon fiber, and wood that was not practicable 40-50 years ago.
While I'm far from an expert in tone arms and Chaks opinion might be expressed trivially as I'm sure there are modern tonearms which could be pretty looking to most people, I think Chak like myself admires things made in a past time of a golden era, tonearms, turntables, cartridges, vacuum tubes, cars, and other craft, milenials, modern society doesn't care about these details anymore, everything is made in a rush to save cost and results speak by themselves, hence we tend to admire such things and adopt the concept that these were made better than today's.
Of course it is a bias opinion not applicable to everything but many times accurate.
I for example admire the 6C33C-B, I haven't seen a tube better designed, the day I held that tube in my hand I falled in love with it, the construction, the glass shape to hold the copper rods, the thickness of the glass, it just screams good design and engineering, there are way better tubes of course but that one personally I just like it.
And you are correct and objective lew
I only said "MOST OF THEM" speaking about modern tonearm design.
But those modern arms, that I like, are about 5-10 times higher in price.
So it’s hard to argue that Japanese vintage tonearms are cheaper, and, at the same time, beautiful! Technically many of them are superior to their modern competitors.
Victor tonearms are amazing and inexpensive (say under $1500 for NOS, I do not discuss those broken samples that goes almost as a free gift). Don Griffith compared his Victor 7045 to Graham and preferred Victor, search on audiogon and you will find his posts.
Modern tonearms are ugly and very expensive, some of them are nice, but still very expensive.
If you’re happy it’s fine, but NOS condition is something different (must be a box, manual, all parts together and perfect working condition). After your first message in this thread I realized than the price is low because there is a defect described by yourself:
the rubber damper in the counterweight stub that degrades and causes the dreaded tonearm droop where the weight starts hanging down.
It’s pretty common for UA-7045 and 7082 and this is why a perfect sample without this defect is not easy to find and normally twice as much in price. A true NOS sample in the box is very hard to find even in Japan.
knollbrent, are you talking about Vlad out of CD? chakster, I assumed that this was going to need the isolation bushing but was wrong. Even with the weight out at the end of the stub it barely moves down. Not a single scratch on the tonearm tube or anyplace else. I’m more than pleased, it’s much nicer than I was expecting. No hint of corrosion either, a big problem with stuff coming from Japan, an island in the middle of the Pacific.
@billwojo no not Vlad. I will not reveal my time machine operator as I don’t want too many people invading his vault. :) Great deals do happen. I bought a mint Luxman PD444 with two NOS arm boards for $2000 from Japan 3 years ago. Had mint cover but of course they always break in transport. There are great deals out there but rare.
If it's not broke, don't fix it.
1. ignore the #’s on the tt arm’s anti-skate dial, they are often way off. I prefer the notched rod/dangling weight of SME type, one of the features of the long arm I bought.
2, start with the blank lp, whatever it’s made of, it get’s you CLOSE
3. REFINE using very familiar music with strong l/r/c content, like the one’s I keep posting (I don’t like test lps, but they can work).
a. CD version to verify the system is truly balanced
b. LP version, adjust anti-skate for matching imaging, done.
4. My familiar music.
a. three distinct guitarists, and equal live audience sounds, side 2, tracks 2 and 3
youtube of that lp
b. center done right, Cassandra Wilson on this entire album.
c. Eurythmics, Studio LP’s, lots of strong l/r, sound effects, Annie Lennox centered
d. take along CD versions to evaluate a sound system
and bring these two
hear their voices distinctly
lots for evaluation, and Richard Burton better sound like Richard Burton
Hello to all vinyl addicts!
I am always impressed at the level of detail we as a group delve into in search of that perfect sound. Having recently retired I am reviving my vinyl addiction. I recently acquired a new denon103r, had terry robinson at paradox pulse repot the cartridge, and had Joseph Long replace the stock cantilever and tip with a ruby cantilever and a Geyger S diamond tip. However ,on my origin live modified rega 300 arm on a bassis 1400 table something seemed missing. Having read a little about proper tonearm/cartridge pairings, I found a used ql-7 with a ua-7045 arm.
As the table looks very old, motor doesn't quartz lock, but my immediate concern is getting the arm refurbished. Does anyone here know who would be the best to restore the arm, (then eventually the motor), (then I will see if I can find a wood craftsman herein Vt. to make a plinth out of solid maple.)
Any thoughts or help is humbly appreciated.
Greg, unfortunately getting the turntable to operate properly might be more complex and expensive than fixing your tonearm. However, the number one guru for DD TT repair is JP Jones. He can be found at fidelis analog, his website. As to the tonearm problem, maybe BIllwojo can help you. This thread is more than a year old, but maybe by now Bill has machined the needed rubber or rubbery parts to fix your tone arm, if it’s only problem is a floppy counterweight. Contrary to what Chakster insists, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot do a proper repair yourself. Removing the counterweight assembly is very easy to do. Just be sure you do not lose any of the tiny screws that one must remove.
I started down this rabbit hole, and am not sure where it will lead, but often it is the journey,and not the destination that is so much fun. I am not super technical, somewhat handy,so minor tweaks I can do. I am most interested in the arm / cartridge I mentioned above, wondering if I should mount it on the basis 1400, I also have a older roksan xerxes table, and then the tt-71 in a new plinth setup to fire my imagination....not sure where to go next.