802s come with or without diamond tweeters. The more expensive speakers might be the diamond tweeter variant.
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There has been a lot of praise for the N802 speakers over the years, the Diamond series are not necessarily a big improvement over the regular Nautilus series. I believe these two factors are making the N802 speakers worth having, even at a premium price. Just my opinion, I would love to hear other peoples thought on why the N802 have become so expensive on the used market.
Personally I use N801 in my system (Oppo 105, Krell HTS 7.1 and Krell TAS) and they sound great to me.
Just wondering out loud here -- B&Ws like other import items may have increased in price as a result of unfavorable currency movements of the US dollar versus the British Pound Sterling and/or the Euro. I don't follow the B&Ws, but I do follow Paradigm speakers which are a Canadian import.
Perhaps some may recall not so many years ago when the one (1) Canadian dollar was worth only $.70 US dollars. Today, the currencies trade at near parity. So ... do the math. A pair of Paradigm S8s might have retailed in the US for $6000 when the exchange rate was 1 Cnd dollar = .70 US dollars. Forgetting inflation, those same speakers might retail for $8700 today, which btw, isn't far from reality (MSRP of $9K).
And forget the fact that Paradigm can achieve operating efficiencies that alude most smaller American based companies, plus lower labor costs to boot.
I've read that the cost of Chinese made audio gear is increasing too -- for many of the same reasons just mentioned. If this trend continues, domestic companies may get to a tipping point where they bring the work back home. Bless the free market.
61% of government bonds are now owned by the Federal Reserve. China and Japan announced they are no longer purchasing US Government debt, so the Fed has become the buyer of last resort. So they just print money to cover government revenue shortfalls. This diminishes the purchasing power of the dollar, because an expanded money supply means more dollars are chasing the same number of goods and services.
Eventually you may see used speakers cost more than current msrps, and the cost of new products high still.
Just wait. If our major trading partners ditch the US dollar as a reserve currency, you ain't seen nothing yet. All imported commodity prices will increase. One reason that more countries haven't pushed the US dollar down even more is because their currencies and economies are in even worse shape that ours. It's called a flight to safety.
US Federal Reserve owns 61% of all U.S. Government debt as of 2012, it's probably even higher now that China and Japan publically said they are no longer going to prop up the U.S. Economy. When government prints money to make up for budget shortfalls, more dollars chasing the same number of goods and services means increasing costs. This is why you don't price items in dollars, you price them in gold or silver, which is real money.
Astrallite, I missed the announcments from Japan and China about their policies of not buying US government debt. Can you post a link to an article?? Thnx.
Not to quibble, but even gold and silver is not real money. Oh ... sure in the short run, sellers of goods and services will accept precious metals and gems for barter. But in the long run, even if a country has an endless supply of such barter currenecy, prices would still increase. The same occurred when Spain "imported" gold and silver from the New World in the 15th and 16th centuries. I recall reading that Europe experienced inflation because abundant amounts of gold and silver were chasing a fixed amount of goods and services.
I posit that the real strength of an economy isn't measured in print or mine barter currency, but rather in its ability to produce valuable barter goods and services. All that barter currency does is set the exchange price -- not set true value. After all, a loaf of bread is still a loaf of bread, no matter how much it costs.
The reason our country is in its current state is because we have allowed our real economic strength to wain -- that is the capacity to produce goods and services of real value. It's really an old saw. Manufacturing has gone offshore; our skilled labor force has shrunk, and so on and so forth. Archie Bunker is flipping burgers rather than making stuff.
I assure you that notwithstanding what the limosine liberals tell you, the problem is not about taxes. Oh sure, taxes may push a company's decision one way or the other. The real underlying reason that a company goes to China, India, Mexico, and so forth, is because the cost of manufacturing and complying with social benefit costs is simply cheaper.
Sooner or later, market forces will drive the cost of imported goods to increase. And there will be a tipping point where companies will either produce here, or in the **less** likely case, just abandon our marketplace.
A case in point is oil production. For the first time in a long time, the US is producing more than 50% of the crude oil we consume. Reason: the price of imported crude has increased to the tipping point where it is economical to drill domestically. And where is this happening? North Dakota.
You want to fix the situation and save Archie Bunker, our kids, and ourselves?? Our government needs to fix GATT. A suggestion -- treat goods imported from abroad as being unlawfully subsidized and therefore subject to counter-vailing duties if a producer country does not maintain various labor protection laws that we have come to accept as non-negotiable, e.g., minimum wage, health and welfare benefits, OSHA, EPA, ERISA, wage and hours, retirement benefits, etc.
Frankly, if I know a suit was made in a country where the laborers lived in cardboard boxes, and drank polluted water, I would become ill.
I surmise the push back is that the cost of imported goods and services will increase. True ... it's going to happen sooner or later, and probably sooner. Heck, as Astrallite just posted, some countries no longer want our T-Bills. Just wait until the US dollar is no longer a respected reserve currency. All hell will break loose.
Better to engineer a controlled economic rebalancing than than wait for another explosive crash. What happened in 2008/9 was an explosive rebalancing of economic forces.
You can find them on the net, China announced it was going to reduce the size of its 4 trillion foreign reserve balance sheet. As far as gold and silver being money, that's debatable depending in the country you are in perhaps, although according to the constitution, ONLY gold and silver is legal tender, since 1971 when Nixon took us off the gold standard the government has been openly defying the constitution.
As far as talking about goods and services, two things hamstring the economy from expanding its goods and services.
1) Government regulation (which increases every election cycle)
2) The price of money. Interest rates are the most important thing in an economy as it prevents mal-investment, and signals people to save in order to generate financing for capital investment. Unfortunately our gigantic, ever-expanding leech of a government cannot finance its own debt with tax revenue, so it pushes down interest rates so it can pay the interest on its own debt at the expense of the rest of the economy.
Remember, 20% of the economy were manufacturing jobs, the entry-path to the middle class as recent as 2001. Today they represent 4% of jobs, and keep dwindling, as our traitorous government keeps cracking down on unions and pile more and more regulations on our employers today for the benefit of a few lobbyists and continue to drive our jobs overseas. Most employers will tell you the cost of regulation is driving jobs away, not the cost of labor.
I have noticed that prices have gone up as well. The N802's have always held around 50% value of original list and that does seem to be creeping up a bit. This is a strong performance that many other established brands fail to match.
So what factors make this possible? Here's my thoughts on the subject. 1. The styling is unique and many people find them attractive. 2. The original base plates on the N802 are more attractive than the later versions. 3. The speaker is a strong performer in a combination 2 channel and theatre system. 4. They are still competitive soundwise with new speakers in the 4-5K price range.
I don't think the pricesof used 802N's have anything to do with the US/federal reserve/Asian Markets at all. As Mgattmch has mentioned, the 802D's are grossly overpriced and to many, not an upgrade at all including myself. Of course subject to personal taste. 802N's in my market are widely sought after but obviously are going to be cheaper than a brand new or used set of 802D's which makes the 802N's more attractive. It is all what the market is willing to pay and what the demands are. Yes the you can bring the whole debate about the economy affecting the price of the newly manufactured 802D's but I am willing to believe that the 2 speakers still speak for themselves. As mentioned earlier the introductory price for the 802D's was laughable as far as I am concerned. In fact the the whole B&W D series prices are ridiculous. C'mon a pair of 804D's the same price as a new set of 802N's when they were first introduced?