Has biwire speaker cabling become "old" ?

I"m with Z on this one. Every designer is different. My Proacs all sounded better bi wired, but ONLY when using the same wire for all the runs. My new Vandersteen's have to be bi wired. He's designed them that way and he'll even tell you that you are better off running less expensive cable to bi wire than get an expensive single cable for one connection.

This is one of those times that it makes sense to find a dealer you trust and who knows your system do you can listen to the difference in their store or they can loan you cables for you to try.

I'm with Z on that one. It usually is keeping the skin effect off the lower end cables and many other things that cables deal with. I was only able to afford a pair of AQ Castle Rock bi wired, but I've heard the same speakers I own with TWO separate runs of the same cable in the same system and HOLY COW is there a difference. It wasn't slight to me either. Anytime you can keep signals separate it's usually a good things. The signals are different on each run and it's night to keep them away from each other if you can. Higher resolution systems will shows the differences most of the time.

timrhu
2,713 posts
03-20-2015 7:58am 
Anytime you can keep signals separate it's usually a good things. The signals are different on each run and it's night to keep them away from each other if you can. Higher resolution systems will shows the differences most of the time.
Ctsooner

"Not sure where you got this information, but if you are biwiring using only one amp, the signal is identical on both cables." <<<  your response to my original post.


Actually you are incorrect.  Because of reflected impedances the high frequencies curent will travel up the wire connected to the mid/tweeter and the low frequencies curent up the wire connected to the woofer. All frequencies are present but not the same amount of current in each wire.

Yes, Richard has done a great job with that site.  I don't know any others who have such a comprehensive Q&A page like that and Richard himself answers the questions.

Email, I can't wait to hear the you use in your system.  As you know the only thing is using the same length and type for each and every run.  

forget gauge.  That doesn't really matter.  Geometry and product are more important etc....  Personally I'd try Audioquest or Cardas.  Both are nice.  AQ is very neutral up and down the range and you need the DBS unit to get the best sound.  Type 44 or something like that can be a starting place.. Just look at their site.  Cardas can be darker at times.  Not a bad thing in high end audio.  It's a really nice cable.  Don't drive yourself nuts as the cable isn't as big a difference maker as spending the extra money on upgrading a full component. Too many folks lose site of this when building a system.  Richard Vandersteen had some great talking points about this topic at a seminar he did last year at Audio Connections.  He's actually coming back in May I believe.

Nordost to me can suck the life out of the sound.  I have friends who own stores who swear by it though.  Personally I have heard the Odin mk II I think they are on in a full Macintosh/Wilson Sasha 2 system and I didn't love it at all.  I couldn't live with it. I felt it sounded better with Transparent cable.  I won't buy from Transparent because Karen and her husband stole their designs from Bruce Brisson of MIT when they started out.  MIT was always very good cable for the levinson, but personally I'd stick with AQ or Cardas (who makes the OEM wires for MANY of the top audio wire brands).

no romance, how can you make a statement like that?  There is so much that goes into any cable that you can't just make a blanket statement like that as fact.  The real fact is that any bare wire will start to 'gas' over time and that will degrade the sound tremendously at this level.  If you have a strong cold weld like AQ makes along with a top of the line silver dipped spade, your connection is as good as anything else and you won't get the gassing, so it will continue to be a better connection. Other companies have done research on their connections and many are much better over time than bare wire.  Just saying 

Nice Dave.  I don't need to kiss anyones butt.  Been around audio plenty and there are some who's ideas I align with as they make sense.  Well before I even liked his speakers, I was into MIT cables. I loved them and even had my Quicksilver preamp fully wired with Brisson's wire and solder.  Loved what it did to the sound.

Are you upset that folks like his Q&A area on his site?  Seems like good business to me.  He likes to interact with folks and most like that.  I always enjoy meeting designers and listening to why they do what they do.  It's the only way to learn as long as you keep an open mind.  Doesn't mean I have to agree or like their product, but it's good business.  

I guess I don't fully understand your problem with folks liking  Mr Vandersteen.  He's a nice guy who has a passion for audio and he likes to share.  Most in our business seem to be that way.  

First off we should all listen before buying.  I was all bout MIT when I had my Quicksilver/Proac system.  It was years. I'm actually shipping my 330 shotgun CVT cables out tomorrow as I finally decided to sell them.  Bruce B actually rewired my preamp with his internal wire many years ago.  He among others make some great cables.  No doubt, but I liked the AQ cables much better with my Vandersteen/Ayre system.  I did listen to bi wire vs single vs the bi wire within ONE cable.  I wasn't able to afford the second set of Castle Rock to do a true bi wire, but I'm about to pull that trigger. I noticed a nice difference, however I also feel that upgrading components usually makes a bigger difference than upgrading cables (dollar per dollar).  For those who make a claim that bi wiring is BS, you have no credibility.  For you it obviously didn't work, but some systems are designed to be bi wired and it does make a nice difference.  

Dave, it's all good.  I do listen to Richard a lot.  He makes a ton of sense and I trust him.  That said, I have my own ears.  He and I seem to like similar sounds.  It wasn't like that years ago and I didn't want Vandersteens.  I listen differently now than I used to.  I have heard differences for years IRT bi wiring.  I have heard lesser cables with a true double run sound much better than a 5k single wiring with jumpers.  That's just me, but I'm sure a ton don't hear a difference.  

Dave, sorry, lol.  I've been called unreasonable by way too many over my lifetime, lol.  I can argue if you want, lol.  I often just hang out on the boards to find ridiculous comments by folks who have never been in a certain situation, but are more than willing to offer their professional advice, lol.  I'm not a professional, but at least I get out often to many places and listen to components so I have an idea of what I like and what I don't.  I just try not to forget that we all hear so differently.

Wolf, you just put a smile on my face.  Love that post, lol.