Has anyone listened to Legacy speakers?

Lak has probably got the two best models that they build ( in my opinion ). The Studio uses the same "mid-woofer" that the highly reviewed ( and excellent sounding ) $4000+ two way Legend mini-monitors use. As to the Signature III's, they use a completely different bass alignment than any of the other models use. As such, i think that this results in MUCH better ( and tighter ) bottom end output and control.

Contrary to popular belief and even though the cabinets look very attractive, the internal build quality on these speakers is NOT as good as one would hope. I have worked on and repaired a few different Legacy speakers, each time finding various design / construction flaws. Let's just say that "consistency" is not one of their strong points. They do use very good quality drivers though and the prices compared to other speakers using similar drivers is very reasonable.

Given this information, a "tweaker" can take a pair of these and REALLY go to town on them. I am referring to internal wiring, tightening of connections, proper placement and amount of damping material, re-alignment of ports / port size, etc... The results should be very good if done properly since you're starting out with good quality drivers and a nice looking cabinet to begin with.

As such, i will state that these speakers in stock form are VERY system and taste dependent. You have to work with them quite a bit in order to squeeze the best performance out of them. They are MUCH pickier than some other brands. While this won't make me any "brownie points" with Legacy owners, there is a reason why they have the reputation of being the "hi end version of Cerwin Vega". They are relatively high in efficiency and tend to "boom" and "sizzle". HIGH current amps are a must to help control the bottom end on these speakers. On top of that, something that sounds "laid back" or slightly soft on top would probably help things out in terms of the "hot" high end that these speakers typically produce.

The larger models with open air woofers might be a different story in terms of the bass response. Due to the overall lower Q of this design, they might actually come across as being "lean". Sean
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PS.... Please don't hate me for sharing my honest opinions and experience. After all, if we all liked the same thing, there would be no need for this forum or multiple brands of gear. If you disagree, please share your opinions and findings. After all, that is what the poster is looking for: feedback and multiple points of view.

Trelja, could you tell us how you REALLY feel ??? : )

No, i have never worked on any Focus'. I have been told that they use some very low grade wiring internally though. I do know that some of the wiring that they used to use had REAL problems with heavy oxidation and corrosion. This can be evidenced by looking for GREEN colored copper : (

For the record, my Father has a set of the Legacy 1's (early version of the Classic's) and three Studio's ( used as center and surrounds ). Much of my experience that i have spoke of has come from working with these specific speakers. I also know a few other folks with Legacy's that i've done some work for.

My experience with ALL of these has been that their crimping of wire terminals and spade lugs is TERRIBLE. I have literally had spades FALL OFF the wire as i have unscrewed the "factory jumpers" from the bi-wire terminals !!! I have also run into very poor soldering resulting in intermittent operation of drivers, unequal amounts of damping material from one speaker to the next, different placement of damping material inside of identical speakers, a stereo pair of speakers where one had damping material inside and the other had none, etc.... These are the things that i was talking about when i said "lack of consistency". Unfortunately, this is not THAT different from MANY other mass produced products. While we have come to expect this from many of the "low budget" products that are imported, it is the last thing that we expect from a product that costs hundreds and even thousands of dollars and is "built & designed in America". Maybe Sony was right..... Sean
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Muller, as i told you when i briefly listened to your system, your speakers sounded FAR better to me than the Legacy 1's or Classic's. I was being completely honest and sincere in those statements. I hope that you took them as so.

Other than that, i really couldn't pass any type of critical judment on your gear. I was not familiar with your system at all, the specific room acoustics, the recorded selections that you played, etc... I would hardly call listening to a couple of tunes in an unfamiliar environment worthy of a "complete review". Trying to form "set in stone" opinions using such a limited demo would surely result in a less than honest portrayal. As such, i could not pass ANY type of accurate judgment on ANYTHING there.

As you might remember, i did suggest sitting back further away from the speakers than where you had your chair previously positioned. Due to their physical size and amount of drivers, that specific design WILL take some space before everything blends together. I think that anybody that is familiar with the layout of the drivers would agree with my assesment. They are not "nearfield" speakers in any sense of the word.

Other than that, there were several other suggestions that i could have made in terms of how you had things set-up. I refrained from doing so as we were strictly on a time limited basis. Besides that, most people take offense to constructive criticism or suggestions about their system, especially if you aren't well acquainted. As such, i was there to give you money and pick up some gear. I thought that the transaction and experience of meeting each other went quite well overall.

As to your comments about my hearing ability or "bat ears", i can specifically state that i do have hearing loss. I already know this from testing that i've had performed. Nonetheless, this does not eliminate my ability to subjectively listen and / or pass judgment on what i do hear. Given my background in Pro Sound reinforcement, working with electronics for a living, LOTS of experimentation within several of my systems, set-up and tuning of several other installations, the amount of gear that i've owned and been exposed to, etc.., i would consider myself slightly more experienced than the "average" audiophile. Maybe so, maybe not. Either way, i've tried to share what knowledge and experience that i do have and learn from others along the way.

I'm sorry if i said something to offend you. I based my comments about Legacy speakers on what i was familiar with and what i have experienced first hand. As such, i did not even remotely take into consideration the time that i spent listening to your speakers or system. It would have been like trying to write a review of a car that you went on a 5 minute test drive with, but were sitting on the passenger side for the entire trip. Not fair or accurate at all.

I'm glad that you're happy with what you have and hope that you continue to enjoy it. As to the problems that you encountered with your secondary amplifier, i hope that you were able to resolve them in an economic manner. I'd like to Thank You once again for the more than fair deal that you gave me on the equipment that i purchased from you. The spare drivers have come in more than handy and the speakers really filled out after hitting them with a couple hundred of watts for a couple of weeks. The difference in bass output was quite astounding. Sean
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I don't want to get this thread any further off topic than we already have taken it. As such, let's try a fresh thread on the topic. This way, others can chime in and share their experiences. Sean
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Tubby, Thanks for the very thorough dissection and analysis of your Legacy's. As someone else mentioned, most of the models that i've worked on were from the "early" days of Legacy. One pair was hand assembled by Bill Duddleston himself. Quite honestly, that was the set that we had the most problems with. Believe it or not, it is your option. I have NO interest in promoting or belittling any company or individual as i have NOTHING to gain by doing so. I'm simply reporting what i've seen and experiencing first hand.

Quite obviously, Legacy has stepped up the quality of parts and construction. I know that the older models used "pretty" plastic vent covers that acted as guards. These had criss-crossed plastic bars that slid into the tube of the port. This gave a more professional appearance than just a cardboard tube stuffed into a hole in the box. As it was though, these were not sized properly and caused great turbulence in the port when "gettin' it". Better performance could be had by simply slipping these out of the port.

As to the Kimber that is in your Convergence, that kind of makes sense to me. I had bought some biwired Kimber ( 8TC / 4TC ) from a gentleman here on Audiogon. He said that he purchased this along with a set of speakers from Legacy. While i was kind of puzzled by this statement, all the pieces are now falling into place.

The "clip on" connectors that i was referring to were not internal, but external. These were hand crimped spade connectors on factory assembled jumpers for biwiring / biamping. Upon loosening the binding posts and removing the jumpers, the spades literally fell off the wire and onto the floor. The person had been using the speakers like that for several years. Needless to say, i was both appalled and amused. When i asked them who had assembled the jumpers ( thinking that the owner did ), they told me "Bill Duddleston". This person KNOWS for a FACT that Duddleston put them together, as he had to wait for Bill to finish putting the speakers together. He went down to pick them up and they were not done yet. Given the findings that we had with that set of speakers, it was quite obvious that they were slapped together and sent out the door. There was not one IOTA of "quality control" that went into that set, even though the cabinets and quality of drivers is quite good. Hopefully, this is NOT occuring today. To show you how long ago this specific incident occured, they were still called Reel to Real Audio and were also using the Legacy name at the same time. Sean
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Thanks for the honest "review". Given the fact that you are an owner of their top of the line model, i would consider your point of view to be worth more than someone who does not own any of their products ( me, for example ). The "funny" thing is that both of our thoughts and findings run parallel to each other almost to a "T".

Something else that i forgot to mention is that the models that i have worked on / looked at had the mids and woofers "flush mounted" but the tweeters and supertweeters weren't. I found this VERY strange and believe that correcting this could REALLY smooth out the upper mids and treble. This may be what is causing some of the "peakiness" or "glare" that some people complain about with this product line.

Out of curiousity, have you rewired the speakers internally and if so, what did you use ??? Sean
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