geoffkait/passionforaudio
hi
i mention this company because in the UK they are easy to audition and are the best i have tried , stillpoints, nordost clearlight audio and symposium are other ideas i have tried but they did not do enough in my system to warrant buying them and the prices were very high , buying products blind from the USA is something i have thought about doing but as everything is so system dependent its to risky also we have to pay import duty and taxes, BFly audio are also being highly praised in the UK they are from Germany but there design includes sorbathane which i have had not very good results with, i did try the pro base two under my cd player which was very good but it changed the mid bass to much in my system i felt a loss of resolution so i returned back to importer. |
its never simple but great fun especially when you find the golden nugget that improves your system even more than you could imagine , i find cables and isolation a very interesting and necessary components, we leave the designing to the designers the results to the reviewers and then theirs the dealers, DIY is a great area to try and save money but in the long run its probably better to leave it to the professionals but which product or idea do you drop your money on , for mains cables i use jps labs for signal cables clearer audio and townshend audio from the UK and isolation i have found my golden nugget in townshend audio they have been designing 50 years they do not believe in aftermarket power cables but agree signal cables are very important as is correct isolation i use there DCT isolda i believe they were the first to use cyro treatment which has been further improved with the f1 fractal cable it makes very interesting reading when you visit there website but then so does every other manufacturer , the most important thing i believe is home auditions and maybe stick with the companies thats been around for decades they must be doing something right, i also like all the furutech products so electrical contact points is another big area for discussion this is looking like i need to start another discussion |
i completely agree that spikes no matter how well made are definitely not the way to get the best sound from your loudspeakers, one of the main room problems is too much bass energy , so you are advised to spend your money on room treatment , its now proven by the Max townshend that seismic podium speaker isolation is a huge break threw in treating this age old problem down to 3hz , after isolating the loudspeaker in my small room i do not fill the need for any room treatment but if someone out there believes it can still help then as an audiophile i would be interested, but the sound i am now getting from my sound-lab dynastats is simply mind blowing i have never been so happy but i will always carry the need to take my system to higher levels , i have just today ordered 3 seismic platforms for cdp and digital amps i will report back for those who are interested |
hi
wow it sounds like you got some very serious racks and isolation footers Grand prix audio is very highly respected in the UK some say the very best , i now some very lucky audiophiles that use the carbon fibre shelves as well i believe the system he has is the silverstone or something like that it over 20k but he can afford it and that was hes choice , i will look into the platforms you suggest thank you if they are based in Europe its not to bad but in the USA the import duty and taxes kill it unless theres some good discount involved thanks for the reply and advise |
hi thastum/bdp24
i went for the cardas golden cubes over the Ebonywood blocks and now regret it as they over damped my system , very interesting reading from bdp24 i read also about barry diament and hes isolation choices for hes big maggies somewhere i read he was trying symposium roller bearings when i went to buy the same ones maybe lots of people read the same because they were constantly out of stock and back ordered , im glad i didnt purchase because the podiums have completely done the job with even better results than i thought possible barry diaments remastered recordings in 1990 of bob marley albums are considered the most musical but now maybe the japan shm cd are slightly better and very nice in the mini lp style ,i have seen barry diaments system pictured on hes website it looks incredible , did you say he is using the podiums now under hes big speakers i know they are quite new to the market , the speaker bars were first , then adjustable speaker bars now we have the seismic podiums, i have thought isolating sensitive equipment was important but placing my speakers on the podiums was a complete game changer for me i hope every ones isolation choices made the same huge improvement as mine did its so great as an audiophile when a really special product arrives that hasn't got the huge 100k plus prices , i have never come across such am upgrade as correct speaker isolation im now waiting on the seismic platforms for my electronics fingers crossed they raise the bar even further.
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hi
i would seriously without hesitation go for the podiums , with concrete floor or suspended wooden floor the benefits are shown by Max Townshend on you tube ,i have experienced the benefits on suspended wooden floor which is very solid without any bounce , as for knocking them off i use sound-lab dynastats which are maybe 6ft tall i have no worry's at all if anything they slightly move if pushed so the chances off toppling seem much less obvious than when i had them on the floor if pushed when flat on the floor they would tip, on the podiums they wobble slightly and i fill to make them topple would take a real serious push as they are basically on suspension i hope this makes sense , please fill free to ask further if i have not been clear bottom line im saying more stable on podiums check the look of the design depending on the size of your speakers footprint you could go for a bigger size but i really do not believe you need to , on concrete i have felt my speakers were not that stable any slight knock they would move on podiums they suspension takes the knock and speakers return to original position i love mine the performance is incredible and the sound -labs are definitely safe i have no worries regarding being knocked over i have 7 children from 7 years to 25 years one of my speakers is near a door way the speaker may get knocked now and again but has never fallen hope this helps. |
hi toddveronne
i have tried soft squidgy feet from various manufacturers under electronics and have always found they soften the dynamics with over blown bass , i then tried the opposite with cardas golden cubes they made the sound to dead and distant i didn't like them at all, if budget is tight clearlight audio RDC cones and bases worked great for me , i didnt hear no negatives just an increase in musical details , i purchased the 20x 1.2 cones with the bases for around 30gbp i use them under everything now , but i would definitely start with your loudspeakers first , they are designed to go under speakers as well the results under the speakers are not comparable to podiums but for the money they were the best cones i found, theres a company in the uk called music works they are selling a cone made out of peek or something like that rumor is they are very effective but i have had no first hand experience and the rdc cones are a little cheaper and i have heard the results which are quite good |
hi
please check Emporium hifi in the uk for ex demo bargain prices on townshend audio seismic podiums i have no link to this company im from the uk and this is where i purchased mine , size 3 with 50kg weight limit on each platform its very important to check the weight of your speakers and the footprint for the right size i hope this will helps |
hi toddverrone
the very best speaker platforms are in my opinion the townshend audio seismic podiums , after installing them under my speakers they gave me the biggest upgrade to all areas of sound i have ever experienced , i believe they should be your first place to start , i do not believe you will need to try any others good luck and enjoy the music. |
hi
Geoffkait points out theres so mainly different products and DIY solutions you could mention , i decided to investigate isolation and like most things there was lots of different companies, but not only companies but lots of different ideas and methods, i have really enjoyed every ones input , there experiences and different opinions and ideas , i believe Geoffkait has probably explained the hole concept of isolation and the very importance of trying various ideas and products to find which is your own personal systems solution, if on a tight budget you have lots of various damping solutions ie the squidgy stuff , if you got a bit more to spend you’ve got the more affordable various feet and platforms with springs and magnets , then if monies not a problem theres companies that have spent thousands on R&D and use only the very highest of materials that i believe do warrant the price if to you they are affordable and obviously do the job, the main thing i learnt during my experience was start with your loudspeakers stay away from spikes and pointed cone types , try the products that completely isolate the speakers from the floor so no vibrations can go up or down , on reading this discussion it seems no one fix is for everyone , once you have isolated your system from seismic vibrations do we then need to address the internal vibrations from the components themselves is this then the area of damping products, i read from another discussion one mans solution was spring loaded for seismic then bearing type for internal but i think whatever you end up using it seems the loudspeakers are first then the rest of the system, i would like to here ideas for the internal vibrations if anyone can help thanks to everyone for there experiences and knowledge if anyone can add anything else please do sorry no paragraphs my literature is awful thank you |
hi geoffkait
thank you for again providing another great answer with a great solution to try from shun mook , i have just ordered 2 Mpingo discs to place one on my lector cdp and psu7 , i am waiting on the spring type seismic isolation platforms , i have 2 sets of final duramas bearing systems which i can place on each platform under the chassis of the equipment , then the Mpingo discs will be placed on top of cdp and psu7 , i will do this in three stages , springs , bearings then
Mpingo discs if anyone is interested i will report back with my results , my speakers are already placed on seismic podiums with great results lets hope the platforms bearings and
Mpingo discs can bring even more musical pleasure |
hi geoffkait
have you found one product that seems to work more consistently than any other please for the internal vibrations , i once tried the cardas myrtle blocks under my lector and psu7 and found the sound over damped , i know its all trial and error but i have never tried springs under my equipment only the speakers , i use the final durama ball bearing system which i fill increases speed a little brings out fine details in the music and gives a little leading edge definition, over all sound wise they are an improvement sound wise for not to much money, i was looking at the oyaide dots which apparently have a different type of effect dependent on which side is touching the equipment so again we deal with lots of various products so i guess its pick one that hopefully someone has advised and had good results with , obviously if you turn to a dealer he pushes hes own brand thats why i turned to these forums for some honest advice and real experiences rather than believing whats written on the can sometimes as you said "theirs going to be a little rain sometimes " in the uk shun mook is highly regarded it was once considered snake oil or vodoo funny" times are a changing" sorry last question lol do you find ball bearings are a good product for internal vibrations ? if you have addressed this internal vibration issue could you list maybe 5 products that you have maybe tried or would consider are the best of the bunch please i am hoping the
Mpingo discs work as i have already paid and ordered but i also thought the oyaide dots looked interesting but then again so does everything else when you read the spec and how different products deal with it , i suppose stillpoints is top of the list if they deal with the rollerball bearing effect and the
Mpingo discs type performance if you can add anything else its very appreciated regards john |
hi Geoff Kait
sorry its my bad literature when i said fill i did not mean fill as in to top up , i meant to say felt , just to add more fun to the situation , my seismic platforms arrived , i placed a granite slab 400/500/30mm on the carpet , then the seismic platform size 1 spring A on top with a single component then placed on the platform and the results was another step in the same direction of the podiums much more music , i then used my clearlight audio RDC 1.2 cones and basses between the platform and the chassis of the component and the sound improved even more dynamics focus clarity imaging sound stage basically everything audiophiles are looking for improved , i must say the seismic isolation products for me was the biggest upgrade my system has ever experienced but how strange the RDC cones and basses improved another element of the sound , the seismic products especially the podiums are the clear winners and should be for the money, but the RDC cones and bases performed even better with the seismic platforms contributing to an incredible listening experience. I replaced the RDC cones and bases for the final durama but i found the combination with the springs to detailed with what i heard as a slight distortion to the higher frequencies but very nice bass how crazy is that , taking the duramas out i have settled on the seismic isolation platform with 3 RDC 1.2 cones with bases but the duramas still did something to the bass that was quite extraordinary but they let there selves down every where else , maybe i may replace the RDC cones with stillpoints and see where that goes on there, i tried stillpoints before and found the performance was not for me , it just goes to prove one size does not fit all , experimenting various ideas on there own and combined can give great results this lovely audiophile life is fascinating and never ending , i strongly believe isolation is a huge area that needs addressing , i found starting with my speakers on the spring type idea worked for me , the springs were then very good under the equipment but then going back to some older ideas i had put aside as being not good enough actually worked much better with the springs but the cheap ball bearing idea actually took the springs into a backward step but a forward step in the bass, so maybe a better bearing product like stillpoints with the springs will be audio heaven, for now im really enjoying the springs and RDC products under my electronics but by miles the springs on there own under the speakers or maybe i could try the RDC cones or stillpoints as well there who knows that combination could be complete audio heaven , please do not think for one minute the seismic isolation products did not do the job to an amazing level with which one would be 100% satisfied with the results, but slightly tweaking with other ideas as well proved even more beneficial adding different flavors that seemed more tasty when mixed with springs its all getting really fascinating because my system is playing like it never has done before by a huge margin good luck with your journey ignore isolation and you will never really get there i didn't in 35 years of trying |
hi geoff
i took your advise and put the RDC cones between floor and granite slab , then the seismic isolation platform and component straight on top.I will try my final durama between component and isolation platform under my cd player and cdp psu .
Thanks for all your advise and expert explanations.
i have no paypal but i like the idea of the various size pebbles , in the corners and on the interconnects is there anything for my speaker terminals please.
My soundlab dynastats bass boxes and equipment chassis do not vibrate at all now on the seismic podiums and platforms , but i still fill vibration at the speaker terminals and equipment cable connection points.My issue now is control the vibration in or on the connecting interconnects and speaker cables , do you sell any reasonably priced speaker cable lifts or products to stop my cables vibrating .
My system is sounding really amazing now i have used isolation im glad i went down the seismic isolation route , but i do find your site very interesting regards john
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Im using jps labs kaptovators on my digital amplifiers which are not to heavy, but tomorrow im putting an jps aluminata onto the psu for the cdp .This could cause a problem but as mentioned cable elevation will help .
I am looking into cable elevation so no cables are running directly across the carpet , can anyone advise on a reasonable priced product please ?
Hi geoff how do i purchase the pebbles without paypal please?
I would like 2 very big bags for my corners behind speakers and i have to pairs of RCA leads so enough bags of the micra pebbles for my interconnects.
Is insulation tape sufficient to secure pebbles to the interconnects ?
thank you regards john
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hi geoff
I had my paypal closed down because i purchased a pair of aragon palladiums from the High End Broker in Holland which arrived not working, i opened a dispute for the amount paid which was 2500 euro included delivery , i proved beyond a reasonable doubt with witness statements from engineers used by high end distributor in uk but paypal instead of backing me up and refunding me they banned me for life so no credit card with any of my details is excepted even as a guest.
I do not want to upset any fellow forum members so i will contact you direct when funds are available thanks again for passing on your knowledge on all areas of isolation its great to hear from fellow audiophiles with the same passion i share.
ABNERJACK i started discussion because of my passion for musical reproduction , i shared my findings regarding isolation which i felt was so effective i decided to share the results.
I look at a system in many more ways than its just components put together to make a sound.
I demand the very best sound possible not just for financial satisfaction but from an emotional level.
I believe trying to put a price tag on what pleasure music can bring to ones inner soul is impossible , the pleasure i get from music is priceless , music opens my mind to such golden memories of life one holds so dear and close to ones heart , these memories and emotion alone has no price tag.
As for you claims of snake oil , i believed over the years such a phrase had long kicked the bucket , anything in solid form or merely a thought or state of mind that can further the enjoyment of musical reproduction for me is something i would like to experience , if you are narrow minded or have not yet felt the emotional power of music , maybe sir/madam you should trying drinking some snake oil it may turn out to be your most favorable drink.
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hi
abernajack
please educate yourself you cannot believe everything you read , you cannot describe everything you cannot see, just sit back and enjoy the fact you are seeing the picture from your ears
You also cannot describe how acoustic pebbles will add to musical pleasure as you have not heard them at my place and as yet neither have i, i would consider your remarks as naive and believing everything you read is naive and gullible.
Also unless you have had experiences on the subjects and can offer first hand advice and factual accounts of your proof beyond any reasonable doubt the article is not worth reading .
Unless it a major upgrade to speaker isolation or any other isolation in general ?
My discussion was to share isolation to fellow members which i found made a huge improvement to my system,
My SR acoustic arts set also made an improvement to lessening pleasure
which i would never remove ,
Firing my sondlabs and apogees down the room was significantly better than across but my Tannoys sounded far better across.
I have met some really great audiophiles in my lifetime but not one has ever offered such detailed information regarding seismic vibrations and various ways to isolate ones system from these seismic vibrations as geoff.
From reading what Geoff has discussed and compared hes findings with my own experiences he obviously knows what he is talking about .
I also found listening to Max townshend describing facts regarding seismic vibrations on YOUTUBE led me to buying Max townshend products which went on to give me upgrades like i have never experienced before.
I am very curious regarding these pebbles and knowing a little about room acoustics seismic vibrations and EMF and RFI it is definitely worth the layout to install these products into my system .
If you disagree because you read it somewhere im afraid your audio journey is going to be a very limited experience, some of the really great products that can bring the very best realistic music from your system are actually lying around you room , they are not an electrically connected part of the system they are what has been described as acoustic room treatments , this is another complete area altogether and deserves a separate discussion as most audiophiles and electrical engineers believe you must get your room acoustically damped correctly , so other than the importance of isolation you have the joy of room acoustics big colored panels and tubes or hopefully various small sized pebbles who looks naive now.
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hi
has anyone had experiences with magnetic levitation , i keep seeing these products pooping up but notice a bar running threw the middle of the magnets i believe.
If both top and bottom are still connected how does the product work ?
As long as the effects of the magnets do not interfere with the isolated equipment , seeing a gap between component and solid surface looks very interesting , its just that pole that is going threw the middle makes me think the technique still needs some tweaking |
Thanks again for a very detailed easy to understand explanation , im glad i did not buy into this magnet idea as my aim was to isolate my hole system , My bank has taken a bit of a whack but it wont but long until im ready for some pebbles . Thanks for all your advice Geoff and to everyone that added very useful experiences to this discussion ,
I have also started a discussion regarding mains conditioners and balanced transformers if anyone can help thank you |
i know what i am hearing and so do many other people using podiums , its night and day ,
as i mentioned i had tried various other ideas but only found the podiums to be a complete improvement in all areas of sound quality
if the gentlemen would like some kind of proof he should come round mine i can do a before and after, also i believe max runs many trials and tests so he could send him hes results i know there is a youtube video that covers the seismic podiums ,
over the years it has been said all amplifiers sound the same and
cables make no difference
now we read speaker isolation does not measure sound quality,
as we now know all amplifiers do not sound the same , cables do make a difference and isolating my speakers has been biggest improvement in sound quality yet
i listen to music i do not measure it , my ears are my judge , since isolating my load speakers i am hearing music like never before , the sound is so realistic its amazing , i believe everyone should isolate there loudspeakers first then the rest of your components then sit back and enjoy the benefits |
please if you are going to use springs to isolate may i suggest seismic pods they are designed to carry all loads and can to be used in sets of 3 or 4 , and are easy to twist to level your equipment so no accidents they will also hold value for selling on if you wish to upgrade for the seismic platforms which are very well built and easier to level
playing guesswork could have the opposite effect and ruin the sound of your system and could collapse and actually damaged ones equipment
pls check emporium hifi for cheap prices they deliver worldwide every one puts up links of where to buy products i am merely trying to help you get the products that work cheap and are deigned to isolate your equipment down to 3hz |
it is very important to get the right weight spring definitely not one size fits all, my understanding for the best results is you want the spring at least 3/4 squashed so that you are getting the best isolation from the spring system,
i find it strange that you have probably got a great system but then you will just place foam or any spring type thing in there and hope for the best.
why not contact a townshend or some other spring isolation expert/dealer and get the job done properly the weight the springs need to carry is very important.
maybe you just got lucky with the TT check if the springs are quite squashed i believe this is what you want to see and the equipment on top can move freely in all 6 directions isolating you from seismic energy up/down, left/right and back/forth i believe is what you need to achieve basically you want free movement in all directions |
hi toddverrone
your completely in the right direction with springs this is purely based on my own experiences.
if it helps Max townshend told me that you want the spring quite squashed so it is doing its job , thats why its so important to get the weight right,
the hole idea is your equipment is actually floating so it is protected from the seismic vibrations down to 3hz,
i believe im accurate in saying no system reaches this sub bass seismic 3 hz level which means max townshends design is ideal for system isolation,
i got best results from isolating my speakers first
if you are interested in the podiums for all speaker weights and sizes emporium hifi in the uk sells the products at some 30/40% discount so instead of gambling your money on DIY ideas which in fact could do the job there is an opportunity to buy the correct engineered product at more realistic pricing that will do the job and look very nice too , im too only trying to help other audiophiles experience the magic of the podiums regards john |
hi kenny
before you spend any money try out the townsend audio seismic isolation platform, all you need to know is the weight of your piece of equipment , then the platform can be supplied with the correct load cells , the isolation provided is down to 3hz you will get no better for the money if you check my previous link you will see where you can purchase at high discounted prices ,
if you start with your loudspeakers first you will hear first hand what isolation will do when done properly, the seismic podiums are ground breaking products , after all its your loudspeakers that cause nearly all the vibrations when playing music especially if they are spiked to your floor ,
please check out max townshend youtube video showing the positive effects of the seismic podiums and demonstrating the negative effects of vibrations from using spikes even on concrete
my honest opinion is until you can completely isolate your speakers , your system can nether sound as good as it is , you are basically throwing your money away by keeping on buying better electronics.
isolation has provided the biggest sound improvements to my system , the biggest effect was from isolating my speakers , it was huge mind blowing i just could not believe the difference in sound quality . you can hear every instrument being played , the speakers become so transparent ,and musical its something one has to experience for ones self ,
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hi
when i was experimenting with stillpoints the dealer said it was best to start with your loudspeakers as they cause most of the vibration when playing music, which can travel to your delicate electronics , it made sense as i like to play quite load so i get the sense of a real life like musical experience .
i didn't get on with the stillpoints and was advised to try the Townsend seismic podiums which were a very new product he recommended checking out the you tube video with Max townshend demonstrating the effects of seismic speaker isolation .
All i can say is they transformed my system from great to absolutely amazing in every area , my speakers have completely disappeared every area of musical reproduction has been improved to incredible levels ,
PMC loudspeakers are a solid box type speaker used in recording studios around the world , the company is planning on building a podium platform into the design of there loudspeakers , i have not heard first hand a PMC loudspeaker on a seismic podium but hearing there plans the effect must of been similar to what i experienced ,
like all hifi you got to try before you buy all i can advise is im so glad i tried as they transformed my system , over the years i have owned some outrageous hifi , i am the only audiophile in the UK to own the Nola Grand Reference being driven by 4 of the Edge NL reference mono blocks the front end was a DCS stack which i swapped for the Esoteric PO1 with a pair of D01s and the Esoteric clock .
That was all some years ago when business was very good , all i can say is im enjoying my lector cd707 with psu7 my little Nordacoustic class D amps driving my soundlabs with Townshend audio seismic isolation and a couple of mpingo discs just as much ,
i didnt get into isolation back in the day all the money went on equipment , i still say putting my sound labs on the podiums has been the biggest upgrade i have ever heard in any of my hifi systems , i believe there is no harm in you trying good luck , check out the video on youtube explaining the effects of the podiums i found it very interesting and extremely beneficial to my system as they have made a huge improvement.
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Would it not be better to place your Rock Elite as it is on a Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Platform, i have no experience of the turntable, but if it was originally built with a trio of sorbothane-like rubber half-spheres on its bottom surface for isolation, maybe placing the TT on a Seismic Isolation Platform could raise the performance even higher, if not the seismic pods are very good,, i preferred the look of the platforms and i am very happy with the improvements they brought to my system. The seismic Podiums brought the biggest upgrade my system has ever experienced. |
hi everyone,
Once you have isolated your loudspeakers from the environment , that i believer is a large chunk of the seismic vibration problem solved,
You need to stop the energy from your speakers going threw the floor and surrounding services back up into your speakers and from entering your rack/ electronics distorting the audio signal, Since i have isolated my speakers with Townsend Seismic Podiums i am now tweaking my system to levels i never new was possible ,
if you have invested more into your set up than myself then i feel the benefits will be greater,
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hi geoff
your posts make for very in interesting reading, you very clearly understand isolation from all angles,
I had great improvements when placing my speakers on the seismic podiums, which as you pointed out are a product using springs,
The feet on my speakers are just thin plain discs,
Do you think or could you tell me by replacing these standard feet with larger Clearlight Audio RDC isolation cones size 1.2, would i be in for another level of sound improvements,
I use Seismic Isolation Podiums under my speakers and Seismic Isolation platforms with the rdc cones under all my electronics and mains block.
I am now experimenting with Shun Mook Mpingo Discs in various places, which i am enjoying and hearing different effects, thanks for making me aware of these,
When i remove the mpingo discs i can say with certainty i prefer the sound with them included in the system,
Its quite difficult to explain the improvements they bring, if pushed i would say realism across the board ie bass is better, instruments are clearly defined and vocals gain a human like texture, im not saying the sytem is lacking without the mpingo discs, but definitely improves with them,
I have also tried Final Duramas a bearing type isolation on top of the seismic isolation platforms, which brings tighter bass with more detailed mid and top end,
Over all i am having a great time trying different isolation types but im learning mixing springs with cones or bearings is bringing gains over just using either one,
But no matter what i use springs with cones or springs with bearings the mpingo discs adds more flavor either way,
I am giving it all a good go, its finding the best places for the mpingo discs which is bringing the most fun, at the moment i have one on the main plug at my wall socket that feeds my mains block, the other is facing down on my rcas that are coming out my cdp, badge towards equipment dot facing down at 6 oclock,
i have ordered more mpingo discs as they bring a nice flavor to my system, i am hoping to leave the 2 placed where i have already got them, and place the new 2 on my speaker terminals the same as positioned on my rcas,
I would like to place the mpingos on my equipment and speakers, and use the magic crystal products you sell on my speaker terminals and all other equipment connection points i can then find new homes for the 2 spare discs
the vibrations running threw the system are clearly not a good thing, i believe everything that can vibrate demands attention if one clearly wants the very best sound quality from ones system,
Would you kindly suggest a product that i could place on all my connection points ie cdp to pre, pre to power, power amp terminals to speakers i like the idea of laying them little crystal packs you sell i look forward to your reply kind regards john
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I am now looking to treat all the unwanted vibrations in my system, i believe starting from the speaker terminals back threw every connection point to my wall plug socket will also help three up the signal, by reducing all the unwanted vibrations caused by the equipment themselves, Geof is the man to help achieve this goal.. |
Years ago in the UK, Mana sound frames gained a huge following due to there isolation techniques, back then they used damped glass with upside down spikes at all contact points,
Many Linn LP12 owners would use the Mana Wall shelf to isolate there LP12, as this was suggested by dealers and Mana to be the very best way to isolate the TT,
The way Mana suggested isolating your speakers was a wood type platform with a metal frame all securely connected by spikes , so the speaker base platforms were actually spiked into your wooden suspended floor or carpet / concrete floor..
The main Mana equipment rack was also spiked into the floor with damped glass shelves resting on upside down spikes with a metal frame,
Another product from Mana was the sound base, which was a big wooden type platform sitting on upside down spikes all metal frame with spikes into the floor, the idea was you then placed your shelved rack on top to give an added level of isolation,
Based on the knowledge of seismic vibrations, was Manas use of spikes not effective and did many people then spend money on a floored design, even the advised wall mounted spiked TT shelf does not seem such a good idea from the findings of Max Townshend and Geoff Kait,
to me seismic isolation to be effective you should use a spring type product maybe in correspondence with a ball bearing type product,
I now believe spiking any kind of hifi is a bad thing as they say what goes down must goes up, or what goes up most come down, acoustically isolating the equipment is the way to go, does anyone have a different opinion please?
I am basing my opinion on the youtube video spikes verses pods and some of the very interesting knowledge of Geoff Kait.
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hi geoff,
I have been reading a lot about the Mpingo disc thanks to you suggesting them,
They recommend place one badge towards the wall socket dot facing down at 6 o'clock onto the plug that feeds your mains block, and try this at every connection point threw out your system, ie rca input rca output , speaker terminals amplifier terminals,
I am also when funds permit going to place the mpingo discs on top of my equipment and bass box to my sound-lab dynastats,
Its getting expensive but worth every penny to my ears,
Can you please recommend to me the products that can be placed on top of the cables at roughly the same places as the discs,that you sell, maybe i can then place the mpingo discs on top of the equipment to see if the results are better, or i wonder if i should keep with the mpingos threw out the system, if i win the lottery i would like to use all the Shun Mook products as they are working in my system, have you any experience with the rest of the Shun Mook range please,all your help is very much appreciated |
kennythekey, please email me on [email protected] i will help you sought your subs out kind regards john |
hi todveronne,
Before you spend any money try the Townshend audio speaker bars they retail for around 1000gbp but can be found cheaper from where i purchased my Townshend Podiums regards john |
hi geoff,
I completely understand, i will stay with the mpingo discs they seem to be doing a good job, they have found a permanent place in my system along with the Townshend seismic isolation products,
The ball bearings have replaced the RDC cones on the Townshend Seismic Platforms, more air detail resolution, since including the podiums my system is so much more transparent to tweaks and changes
The sound quality is exceptional for quite a modestly priced system, proper speaker isolation has really put me on a path to great things,
My advice is try the Townshend Podiums or the cheaper adjustable speaker bars, if your speakers are spiked your are not getting anywhere near the best out of your system
In fact you are introducing vibrations threw the floor, walls, rack into your electronics and back into the speakers themselves adding Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums is a real ear opener its far from subtle audition a pair to hear what your system is capable of. |
Thank you Geof again for explaining this hole isolation problem every audiophile is having to deal with,
I am happy with the spring type speaker isolation platform but i am considering placing a ball bearing type platform on top,
The product is a three piece wood type materiel sandwich,
I would place the bottom slice on top of the podium roughly the same size as podium platform , Then you place the middle slice with cones at the bottom and discs cut out with balls in on top , so when you add the top layer the balls and cut out discs line up creating circular bearing movement,
With the podiums using there spring type system i believe this could add further isolation so increasing again sound quality, the bearing product is a cheaper type Symposium type platform.
I am finding the mpingo discs extremely effective, i am going to order some of your crystals that rest on the rca connectors where i cannot put mpingo discs
Thanks for every piece of information you have posted on my discussion,
Am i correct in thinking the mpingo discs are dealing with airborne and internal equipment born vibrations,
My aim is to reduce all vibrations that are in my system done to next to zero if possible,
This isolation journey started for me years ago with the SR migs , then found i worked my way up to stillpoints which if i can remember so much has been and gone i got great results but the prices were high and have just gone up again,
If money was not a problem i believe Seismic Podiums with stillpoints would be a very effective isolation pairing,
With the odd mpingo disc here and there, maybe i should remain happy with the springs and get a loan for the stillpoints sounds like a joke but also could be the ideal solution any opinions or ideas anyone on the springs with stillpoints? |
For the believers that spiking your loudspeakers is best for performance please check the Max Townshend you tube video spikes v pods/podiums, you will without doubt decide to ditch them spikes, as been pointed out many times,
the benefits of breaking the acoustic connection between speaker and floor/room is something everybody should experience,
if you are interested in gaining better sound quality from your system isolation is a great place to start,
i found placing my speakers on the Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums gave me the biggest upgrade in sound quality i have ever experienced,
i have purchased Seismic Isolation Platforms for my electronics to increase the performance to a higher level,
I am now experimenting with Shun Mook mpingo discs and enjoying the results that they bring,
But i believe the first place to start with any form of isolation is with the speakers and decoupling or breaking the acoustic connection between speaker and floor/room is the best answer from my own experience.
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hi Geoff,
I highly respect your opinions and fact based knowledge, i did start to isolate my equipment first,
I tried Stillpoint ultra ss under my lector cdp707 and psu7 and allegri passive pre and ultra 5s under my amplifiers which were a pair of krell fpb 450mcx, back then,
I found they changed the sound which became forward, exciting and dynamic,
When i weighed up the price i decided the change in sound did not justify the very high price tag,
Then i tried Clearlight Audio RDC cones and bases under my electronics and speakers all for less than 350gbp which for the improvement in sound quality was a bargain,
I got obsessed with trying to get my speakers positioned to sound there best, i had a mid bass hump,
I read the reviews of the Speaker Bars and Seismic Podiums, i became very interested in trying them,
For my sound-lab dynastats i was recommended to audition the Seismic Podiums with blue load springs,
When i heard the benefits the Podiums had i wanted to share my findings with everybody they made the biggest improvement to my system to date,
Speaker placement was now not such an issue,
The sound was similar to the Stillpoints, but much more organic and natural,
The price was much less as well which helps, but it was the performance that really did it,
Geoff if you can imagine the vocals when using the mpingo discs the Podiums bring that flavor but using the discs as well brings it out even more,
The Stillpoints are probably the best bearing isolation i have tried for my electronics,
Adding the Seismic Isolation Platforms increased the effects of the Sciesmic Podiums,
I am in the process of selling some old cables and bits and bobs to save up for the Stillpoints,
When i have enough funds i will have the home demo, if they bring what they brought last time to my system, i feel i am in for any incredible experience,
I will put the Stillpoints between my electronics and Seismic platforms,
At the moment under my cdp i have added Final Lab Durama which has added an increase in detail,
The Stillpoints are better performers than the Duramers so i am expecting something very special but then i always do that is what makes it all so exciting and enjoyable.
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hi,
Please check the Max Townshend video spikes v Podiums on you tube, the Podiums are somewhat of a new product maybe a couple years old now, here in the UK they have received great reviews, the 3 top sounding rooms at the Bristol in the UK all had there speakers on Podiums,
If you try them under your speakers and your system sounds so much better then they have done the same to your system as they did to mine, its difficult to comment on something unless you have tried it, i believe there are other ways to break the acoustic connection between your speakers from the floor/room,but I found the Townshend Seismic Podiums achieved this for me, the newest edition to the Townshend Seismic Isolation technology is the Piano bars, used by owners of Grand pianos, they are also receiving great reviews and magnificent customer feedback, please check out the Townshend Audio website in the UK many vary famous musicians have had them installed.
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hi kenny,
I am so glad your problem is solved, i installed the seismic corners bars type S 125 kg load under my Copulare stand and bang same type sound improvements as the Seismic Podiums achieved, i now have 3 seismic platforms no longer required.
DIY is fun and a great feeling of achievement if your project works out, but seriously guys Max Townshend has some 50 years behind him, designing the Seismic Isolation Products he has hit the ball out of the park this time,
As always trust your own ears, if you are using speakers that are still spiked you owe it to yourself to at least audition the Seismic speaker bars or better still the Seismic Podiums, or as Geoff pointed out to me you can start with your equipment and isolate each individual component with Pods or Seismic platforms, i have just achieved incredible results installing the Seismic corner bars under my rack, my rack is now floating like my sound-labs are,
the character of sound from my kit which is all digital is now far more like a high end vinyl rig, with buckets of natural resolution and dynamics that make me jump, very spacious the sound stage has grown in all directions with buckets of resolution across the board, i have never heard a top end like this its incredible, like i mentioned at the start of my post the Seismic Isolation Products have given my system an upgrade like i have never experienced before,
I am using mpingo discs which Geoff recommended my system is so transparent and open i can here the discs perform further miracles with the musical realism especially the vocals you can now hear right down the throat of Willie Nelson and Neil Young the sound is so realistic every instrument is located in a big 3D holographic clear picture, my system has gone from a standard digital picture to a 4D HD much deeper black with colour and resolution to die for thats the best way to describe it i can listen all day high volumes and still want more,
What i have learnt is installing high end isolation for your hole system is a must do, sit back and enjoy, you can really start to tweak the sound to what you recognize as realistic and believable, as i mentioned at the beginning i am now going even further upwards into hifi heaven good luck with your journey.
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hi bdp24 would you like to email me direct please regarding your situation i can help you the same way i did kenny, [email protected] thank you, please feel free to talk to Kenny about hes experience with me regards john |
hi please feel free to contact my personal email [email protected] regarding any help with similar situations like ken, i am not a dealer but from the UK i can help with isolation related issues thank you regards John |
hi ken
the Gaia footers screw into the bottom of the speakers they provide damping so they may have slight movement, they are directly underneath where the pods of the speaker bars are wider than the bottom of the speaker so i believe would be more stable, i could be wrong but the Bars are underneath with the pods on the outside of the cabinet so the speaker would take some serious push especially if you screw the bars to the bottom of your speakers i fancy that would provide the best option for stability i already know which ones perform better but as they say horses for courses, i prefer isolation to damping i have had some negative results damping my equipment it was Geoff that explains the difference somewhere on this discussion very interesting reading.if you want to damp your speakers you could save yourself a fortune and use the Clearlight Audio RDC cones and multi bases check them out they are cheap but very good at damping also BFLY audio from Germany offer platforms and a footer that provides damping using layers of sorbothane cork and aluminium and bamboo i believe but not cheap,
they will still not perform like the seismic bars but horses for courses good luck have a good look around, another well made footer is Track audio they are seriously well made but i believe are a type of spike and very expensive, if you are using the seismic bars for your subs and are happy with the performance i would personally stick with the same design for your speakers for system synergy i believe the answer would be screwing the bars to the holes already made in the underside of your speakers. Cerapucs and still points are quite expensive 880gbp for 4 stillpoint ultra ss, also im not to sure about stability the contact area is small it would be like your speakers are on tip toes. The seisnic bare only raise your speaker about the same height as a spike so your tweeter will be where you are used to, you can twist the bottom of the pods to level the each speaker. |
hi kenny ,
before you fire the trigger weight for the review of the Townshend Audio speaker bars in hifipig, the same reviewer Dan Worth has reviewed the isoACOUSTIC Giai footers and found they were damping rather than isolating, the reviewer has been there for 6 years has a very good system and has purchased the speaker bars already the ones he is reviewing, he also reviewed the Giai footers but did not buy so that tells me he prefers the seismic bars,i do not get excited over many tweaks but the seismic isolation products have transformed my system good luck with your choice. |
Now now girls put your claws away, it you can not bring anything better to the table or have nothing decent to say , then please say nothing,
The discussion is an open discussion regarding my experiences and asking other audiophiles to share there experiences with speaker isolation or isolation in general,
My very long journey ended with Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation, they are a 50 year old company based in the UK but back in the 80s i believe manufactured on USA soil of course the head of affairs is the great very passionate Audiophile/Engineer Max Townshend he is an absolutely wonderful gentleman that never says a bad word about anybody’s ideas or products,
Please check out the youtube video spikes v Podiums,
If you are a true audiophile this discussion is aimed at yourselves, i have been enjoying hifi for at least 35 years i have never owned a hifi shop or outlet,
I am making no money from this discussion just passing on my findings regarding isolation, if you have purchased Townshend Seismic Isolation before this discussion or since this discussion you are know experiencing why i started this discussion in the first place,
Townshend Audio Seismic isolation Podiums are a grand breaking product everybody should at least audition them under there own speakers at home if you want to truly hear your system at its very best,
If you are a dealer/engineer yourself all the parts where out there for you to design your own Seismic Isolation Products, if your products were world class receiving magnificent reviews then there would of been a chance i could of read about them and maybe even had them recommended to me, but alas that is fiction, i am merely sharing facts and hopefully helping another audiophile experience the upgrade in sound i got, and enjoying.
I will be starting a discussion regarding choice of High End cd/sacd/dvda players soon, i personally have owned La source, MSB tech, DCS, Wadia EMM labs and Esoteric to name a thew ,my favorite is the late Esoteric K03 with the built in volume the K01 was out of my budget , i suppose i will be accused of being a dealer of Esoteric as well
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Hi sorry to all genuine audiophiles that read this, i must aim this at one person who is not happy about my sharing of a real world class product
to Mr you know who you are, If you have run out of anything useful to say please say no more, it is obvious you have finished your journey in hifi, where like myself and 1000s of other audiophiles we are still enjoying ours,
Most of the time i day dream about some of the really high end equipment that i could never own but i have nothing negative to say regarding the lucky people that can,
you seem to have great knowledge of isolation and i am thinking you are a very intelligent person, all i can say to you is wheres your passion gone for hifi, the good old days were the good old days, time waits for no man, products improve
if you have lost your passion towards hifi maybe its time to hang up them speakers,
to me hifi is my life not my business, i have met some great friends threw my passion for hifi i can not think of one enemy except maybe yourself,
you have added great knowledge to this discussion,
if it was one of your products i was mentioning i guess you would hold back your negative comments, you have had 3 or 4 posts removed because they were of no interest in the discussion and were insulting, i am interested in any ones advice or opinion on anything that can help make the recorded arts sound realistic,
if i have favorite products its because they have brought me closer to the sound of live music, placing my soundlabs on Townshend Audio Seismic Podiums is the biggest upgrade in sound quality i have heard from my system, i will not say any different for you or anyone else because its true and i hope all audiophiles out there still enjoying our growing hobby, life style, can now narrow down there search for isolation in a world where choice has made most purchases quite confusing, out of 1000s of different brands i am very interested to know which ones stand out, if i find a needle in the haystack i will pass on my findings to everyone who is interested.
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My my insults insults and more insults, i do not understand shilling but it sounds like your jealous
As for my English this is not important you must be able to read it as you keep on telling me off, i am all about the music and creating that magic system that takes you there, over here in the UK we are experiencing groundbreaking isolation products, i am merely sharing the news. |
GEOFF.
I am in no way a dealer period, i of course have links to dealers i have been around some 35 years , buying hifi from dealers i feel is safer than chancing expensive mistakes without warranty, or paying strangers over the internet,
Since hearing the effects of the podiums of course i am going to shout out ,best upgrades ever, for your information Townshend Audio sell direct to anyone just give them a call, you may find fellow members on here already have, i have not received no payments from anybody on audiogon for anything, i am passing on my findings, if anyone is interested i hope my experiences have helped fellow members, if anybody has paid me directly for any hifi products please can you tell Geoff, he does not like the fact Max Townshend has designed Ground breaking Isolation products, and i am telling you all about them,
there is only one dealer on here and that is Geoff Kait the rest of us are genuine audiophiles, sharing our passion for our hobby. and lifestyle.
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hi ken,
just read your latest post, thank you for stating the facts and helping to put things straight you are a proper gentlemen,
i have not mentioned any names but if audiophiles are interested in Townshend Audio products as you know if you mention my name it helps with the price, if i can help anyone i will, 35 years has taught me we should all stay together, its the audiophiles verses the dealers i would love someone to help me buy a brand new discounted product i was interested in, "Esoteric K-O1 230v anyone" if i was a dealer putting you onto my supplier to achieve nice discounts i would not be a very good one,
If you still think i am a dealer Geoff then i have to say you have got very serious issues, your fellow members are telling you i am not, i am over passionate and have bad literature YES but a dealer NO. |
hi Audiogon,
I am not a hifi dealer i am merely passing on my findings in a very confusing and daunting hifi market, be it speakers, cables, pre amps, amps, racks, isolation, damping, cd players , streamers, dacs, wall sockets, connectors, recordings, formats and whatever else is involved in our hobby our choices are never ending. If the podiums do for you as they have done for me and your search is over then i am glad i encouraged you to give them a audition after all that is what the forums are for sharing our passion and experiences.
I am not making any money for starting this discussion, i am merely trying to introduce to you guys a great product from the UK. With countless isolation products over here in the UK choosing can be confusing until the Seismic Isolation Products hit the UK market it was spikes and various cones or blocks and platforms. I am not a dealer you can buy from the factory direct i was merely suggesting give them a go under your speakers as they do what they say. If you are interested in buying podiums i can save you a few quid just mention my name "john" just say you are a friend or fellow audiophile.
Yes i do know the lovely people at Townshend Audio, i also know the GeniousTed Denney 111 i was one of hes first customers in the UK i purchased from Ted direct many years ago vacuum tube reference speaker cables i believe in green sheathing and an ac master coupler, Ted used to answer every call long before Elliot joined then Frank, Also Joe at JPS LABS is a great guy and Carl Nola speakers i was the only owner ever in the UK of hes Grand Reference 4 x 7ft Towers speakers, point being after being around as an audiophile for 35 years you are going to brush shoulders with designers as well as dealers.
Anyway i never meant to start a fight if you are ready to pull the trigger on any Townshend Audio product say you now me "John" and your price will be lowered the higher the retail the more discount will be given good luck regards john
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