Harmonic Resolution Systems (HRS) Platforms


Folks,

I am having trouble justifying another $7,000 for the lowest priced HRS frame, to accommodate my expensive M3x Harmonic Resolution Systems platforms.......around $2,500 each. 

While I understand that the frame and the platforms work as a "system," I currently place the M3x platforms and nimbus couplers, on a low-cost salamander rack......with decent results.

Has anyone had good results using HRS platforms on a high quality solid wood rack......walnut for example?

This would save me about $4,000 if it works.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Labpro

 

 

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Check out Adona racks.
Check out some pro lab stuff - esp. at a sale from a public university

describe your problem & gear for more help

Hi Roxy5 and Randy-11,

I looked at the adona racks. Interesting. Thank you, I'll research further.

Randy-11, the issue is a bit complicated. If I place my HRS platforms on a solid walnut rack, I'd like to know if the wood rack will dampen (kill) the sound.

As we know, there are 2 schools of thought with regard to audio racks.....resonance producing (like a box furniture rack) and isolation (like HRS and Silent Running Audio - SRA etc).

As a test. I paced a couple "resonating" platforms under my turn table and preamp, and the sound literally died. This is why I'm hoping that using a solid wood rack (isolation) + my HRS platforms, may do the trick.

Labpro  



Stick with well constructed solid hardwood stands made from walnut, maple or birch. If needed you can always reinforce the underside of the shelving with Dynamat or sorbothane like adhesive contact paper. Personally I have had great success with the IKEA Lak table which is very thick MDF joined with strong heavy duty lag nuts and bolts. I have two joined together. Dead solid quiet without sucking out the dynamics and musicality from the system.

Hi Tom6897,

I admire your resourcefulness. The Ikea Lack table is very inexpensive.

The low cost Salamander rack I currently have, is also made of heavy MDF, and it sounds pretty decent.

I'm going to take a chance on a walnut hi fi racks system.

http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/products/hi-fi-racks/Podium-Reference

I hope placing the HRS platforms on this will work.

Labpro

"the sound literally died" means what, exactly?
Don't let the low price fool you. The Lak tables are very sturdy and really perform way above their price point. They are also quite decor/ WAF friendly. I should also mention that I use the HRS dampening plates on top of my Amp, Pre and Sacd/CD player. I also find that the Nordost sort cones and Sort Fut work well in addition to 2" thick maple bases and Mapleshade brass heavy feet.
Why not Timbernation racks? Made from solid hards woods and can be customized to fit your needs. 

Hi Randy-11,

By placing the HRS platforms on a wood surface that is intended to "resonate" versus "isolate," the midrange sounded as though it had a film covering it.

That is why I'm trying to determine if a solid wood surface, like the one that maxboy00 suggests, will solve this issue.

From what I've been researching, it seems that maple and mahogany are the preferred hardwoods for isolation.

Labpro

Is there a turntable involved?  A system description would allow your question to be placed in better context. Otherwise, the mystery will continue.
mdf will absorb some vibrations

best thing is to put the turntable (and pre-pre amp) in another room behind your preamp & amp

the maple thing is not supported with any sort of scientific studies...

Hi goheelz,

I play a lot of vinyl. I use a Well Tempered turntable.

My system is mostly tubed (except for the transport).

Randy-11, thanks for the comment about separating components. Also I will do some additional research on maple and other hard woods.

Labpro

labpro, 

Please look into Core Audio Designs, you may not even need to keep the HRS platform. 

http://coreaudiodesigns.com/products/component-racks/


Hi Lalitk,

As we know, there are 2 main approaches to audio racks......those that resonate and become part of the sound (box furniture) and those that isolate (SRA and HRS).

I did some research on Core, and my impression was that because it does not use "solid" hardwood, it would "resonate" versus isolate.

That's not to say that Core is not a terrific product.

I could be mistaken.

Thoughts?

Labpro

the real issue is whether it will sit on a slab or a beam floor...

Hi Randy-11,

The rack will be placed on thin carpet, with wood flooring underneath.

I think I know what you are getting at. A concrete floor would be better.

Labpro.


IMO, absolutely no way to know whether you will prefer the sound. without a demo.  Any dealer selling racks at those prices should be able to demo the difference between a component with and without the benefit of the rack.  IMO, if I could not hear a profound difference in the demo, I would stay with what I have. 

Hi Chayro,


I agree 100%.

But with all the variables involved, I'm going to have to give it my best guess and hope that I'm right.

I won't know for sure until I get it into my listening room.

Meanwhile the dealer I'm working with is very good, so I'm sure we will get it right.

Labpro

My dealer sold those racks, but I never specifically demo'd them.  But if the cost of your system justifies the investment, 7k is not much compared to a component upgrade.  As Chris Koster, formerly with Naim told me - the Fraim (rack) is the icing on the cake, but first you need the cake.  I have to agree.  But I have really heard great things about the HRS stuff, so hopefully you'll be happy with your purchase.  
You are already $7G's into the HRS philosophy, therefore, it's too late to turn back.  Drop the extra $$$$ and sleep better at night, otherwise you will toss and turn at night wondering....."what if"  
Labpro,

I have no doubts that HRS frame would be a worthy addition to your M3X platforms. Both frame and M3X are probably designed to work in tandem for ultimate performance.

Few years back when I was searching for components racks, I stumbled upon Core Audio Designs. One look at their design and exquisite finish prompted me to dig deeper. BTW, I currently own three PlyKraft’s and a pair of isolation platforms for my monoblocks.

To answer your question, not all Ply is created equal. The "plyKraft" shelf is composed of 32 layers of Baltic Birch hardwood. I believe the binding ingredient is Phenolic resin. Since I have owned both hardwood (Salamander) and PlyKraft racks, there is simply no comparison between the two. Apple Ply is amazingly stable, incredibly durable and extremely dense/hard.

To prevent ringing, the inner core is lined with butyl resin, aluminum, and high density closed cell foam. Liberal use of clay and lead are used for mass loading and the latter for its shielding properties. The uprights (legs) are solid 8/4 hardwood stock and stainless steel footers.

I am extremely happy with the results, never felt the need to further isolate my components as they sound and look amazing on PlyKraft’s.

And above all, stellar one on one customer service from Mr. Marr.

As ’chayro’ elegantly quoted, if you seek the ’icing’ for your rig, then you should find a way to audition PlyKraft before you shell out $7K for HRS, IMO :-)

Good luck!
I think you can build your own rack to perform at least as well as anything some "dude with no engineering knowledge" will sell you.

Sharp points on the feet might come in handy.

Hi Lalitk,

Thank you for the excellent feedback. I assumed that Core was similar to Box Furniture.....I did not realize that Core was an isolation solution.

If I like the Core rack, and can sell the M3x HRS platforms, I'll save some cash overall. As you know, that doesn't happen to often in the hobby.

I'll try to find a local dealer and further explore.

Labpro

Hi Labpro,

I am also dealing with the never ending isolation question, and to your direct inquiry, have been using HRS platforms sucessfully on a Music Tools Alica stand (somewhat similar to the Burmester stand; looks like some kind of MDF composite, but the technology description is somewhat vague).  This was an improvement over a Salamander Synergy rack with the HRS paltforms I was using as a band aid measure while I was waiting to move into my new house.  

In general, I have found that that the HRS platforms work well on any fairly rigid stands, including solid maple (never tried walnut); the one experiment that did not work well was putting them on a Finite Elements Pagode Master Reference rack - much better without the HRS on it (possibly the experience was similar to your use of "resonating" racks). With that said, they have certain "flavor" that is distinct from competing isolation components, such as Grand Prix Audio and Finite Elemente.

As to some comments on the Core Audio Designs racks, I am a huge fan of Arnold (a true gentleman) and his products, and currectly use his diffusors in my system.  With that said, I am not sure that replacing your HRS components with the Core Audio Designs racks will get you what you are looking for - however, they may work together synergistically.  I suggest you give them a call to see what they have to say.

Best of luck,

Ray
  
Hi Labro,

One other comment - if you play a lot of vinyl, instead of putting $7k into the HRS rack, please take a look at using one of the active vibration isolation tables out there (such as Accurion, Herzan, etc) under your table - it will be a much better use of your funds.

Hi Rzado,


Thank you for the feedback....much appreciated!

I will look into Accurion and Herzan.

A dealer friend of mine sell racks from a company called HiFi Racks Ltd, out of the UK. Family owned and been in business for about 9 years I believe.

They have a rack called the Podium Reference......won a couple awards. I can get a custom hardwood rack with spikes separating each tier, for about $2,500. I would use my HRS platforms instead of buying their wood platforms.

It's a bit of a gamble, but at $2,500 it might be worth a shot. 

I'll get back to you and others to let everyone know how this turns out.

Thank you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Labpro  

Hi there.  I have an HRS double-wide and found no discernable difference between the S1 and the R3x.  Both are extreemley well made.  The isolation may have more do do wiht the HRS feet, whihc I think are the same on both models.

As for the HRS SXR frame, its the absolute bomb!!!!
Re the suggestion to try an active isolation system I can certainly attest to the effectiveness of one having just installed a Herzan TS-150 under my turntable. Unfortunately they do cost at $10k for this the smallest model. They also need a stable platform to work off. You might be able to get away with something like this   http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERZAN-AVI-KT75L-ACTIVE-VIBRATION-CONTROL-OPTICAL-MICROSCOPE-TABLE-BENCH-SN4... If looks are not a factor

Frankly however if I was in your shoes I’d bite the bullet and invest in a full HRS system. The stands will be with you for life. I’ve been using a Grand Prix Audio stands for fifteen years now and they were one of the best long term investments I’ve made.

Look at Symposium Isis rack sounds much better at much less money.
HRS Isolation Bases are designed to provide excellent performance on a very wide range of surfaces. So they are specifically designed to give you excellent performance on your existing stand or any other stock furniture. What you want to do is a great way to build very high performance cost effective systems.