Hana SH vs ortafon 2m Black


Has anyone had experience with both of these cartridges? They will be going on a VPI Scout  run through a rogue cronus magnum  The Hana sounds good but needs quite bit of volume compared to the 2m red I had. Im wondering if the Black is as smooth as the hana without the harshness of the red. Thanks for your input.
garyagostini

Showing 5 responses by johnnyb53

I don’t have direct experience with either cartridge, but I *do* have experience with the Shibata stylus, high output MM carts, and (relatively) high output MC carts. I also have experience (from playing guitar) with the characteristics of alnico magnets on speakers and guitar pickups.

I have a phono preamp that has variable gain. It has its limits in that the mfr says it’s not intended for LOMCs on its own. It does, however, easily handle high output MCs, and I have one whose output is around 2mV (same as the Hana SH) and another at a pretty low 1.2mV.

I can easily switch between a 5mV MM cartridge and the 1.2mV HOMC without a problem. I do, however, generally bump up the gain knob a bit for the 1.2mV. I’ve had previous phono stages with no such feature, and I could easily switch between a 5mV MM and a 2mV HOMC with no gain issue whatsoever. Note that the Hana has an output of 2mV.

I assume you have the original Rogue Cronus Magnum and not the Magnum II? The Magnum II has 6dB more gain in the phono stage than the original. The upgrade is $650. Not cheap, but less money than the cartridges under consideration. A Rogue guy should be able to confirm whether the upgrade would be enough for an HOMC with an output of 2mV. I suspect that it would. Here’s the link to the Rogue Upgrade Page, which lists the Cronus Magnum to Cronus Magnum II upgrade.

I think the Hana would have an advantage over the Ortofon in smoothness. The Shibata stylus does make the treble smoother, and both cartridges have that, but the Hana has alnico magnets *and* moving coils, and that should provide two advantages for a more organic presentation. Do you hear any disadvantages to turning up the gain a bit when playing the Hana? If not, I'd just bump the volume and enjoy the music.

In the realm of guitar pickups and speaker magnets, alnico is characterized as the "musical magnet."
What brand is your phono pre?

My phono pre is a somewhat obscure and hard to find MAGI Phonomenal . I think the new ones run about $1K or maybe a couple hundred north of that. I got mine used in 2014 for $1K. It’s an all tube handwired PTP unit that uses a quartet of 6DJ8 family tubes. I’ve swapped in 6922s and 7308s with various effects, but eventually settled on Soviet Military surplus 6N1Ps, the designer’s recommendation, which lowered the noise floor considerably.

I still think that upgrading your Rogue Cronus Magnum to a Magnum II would provide the extra gain you are looking for to flesh out that Hana.
"I don’t have experience with either cartridge, but — "

After acknowledging you don't know either cartridge, you offer a decisive opinion of both. How do you do that, it's a skill I'd like to learn...
I wrote:
I don’t have direct experience with either cartridge, but I *do* have experience with the Shibata stylus, high output MM carts, and (relatively) high output MC carts. I also have experience (from playing guitar) with the characteristics of alnico magnets on speakers and guitar pickups.
I only claimed some direct and some tangential experience with various elements of the cartridges in question. If you look at my response, I always present it as an opinion based on these tangential experiences.

The problem as presented by the OP is a rare situation that might not elicit any explicit responses. I was merely trying to present some information that might give the OP something to go on for further inquiry and evaluation, and was never intended nor presented as a definitive answer. 

The OP thanked me for my response. And you are ... what, the response police?
Bimasta: Apology accepted; very big of you to walk that back. Actually we share some of the same concerns. As I grow older, I've become more vigilant over confusing my opinions with verifiable facts or at least reasonably likely theories.

I've come to realize that being highly opinionated is not the same as being knowledgeable, and much of what passes for reasoning is simply wishful thinking. The latter is often bolstered by the wisps of "evidence" of dubious veracity that you mentioned, which are gleaned from various audio forums.

I also share some of your pet peeves, particularly a condescending attitude. As a career editor, I (usually) restrain myself from correcting grammar, and correcting someone with ESL is simply bullying. I figure if his English is better than my Spanish, Chinese, Portugese, French, etc. (I speak none of those languages) I have absolutely no room to cop an attitude about mastery of such an inconsistent and confounding language.
I just got my October 2017 issue of Stereophile, which has their semi-annual "Recommended Components" feature. 

This month, the $475 Hana EL is solidly in the Class B group of cartridges. Most of the other Class B cartridges range from $799 to $1200, with the Ortofon SPUs at $599-659, and some others that hit $8500-9995. The only Class B cartridge below the Hana's price is the base model Zu Audio DL-103, which now retails at $459 (just $16 less than the Hana), and hasn't been reviewed by S'phile for 11 years.

Also, the Ortofon 2M Black at $755 has slipped to Class C status and sits right next to the 2M Blue at 1/3 the price. That's not to say that the Blue is just as good, but when the 2M series came out, the Black with its Shibata was considered the standout. Also, that seems to be the product release that resurrected the Shibata on a large scale. 

I have an Audio Technica AT150MLX, which originally came with a MicroLine stylus. When the MicroLine became harder to find a year ago, I replaced it with AT's new Shibata, so now it's an AT150Sa, and I like it better--smoother yet detailed and organic-sounding treble, and it seems to track the inner groove better, though maybe I got lucky on the alignment this time around.