Uh-Oh. Was someone listening TOO loud or are you just not happy with the response of the tweeter after the mods that you've done? I hope it was the latter and not the former.
Other than that, Madisound
would probably be able to help you with the info that you need. Hope this helps... Sean
Not too loud. Just the same inbalance between tweeters as since when I first got them. Nothing blew. I am looking to upgrade to a high end tweeter with the hope to balance things out and upgrade at the same time. I'm getting the Seas Millenium but I may have to return them as they are a 6 ohm tweeter and my Vifa that came with the Hales has 4 ohm printed on it which is a good clue that it's a 4 ohm tweeter. I'm thinking maybe a high end Vifa. Maybe it will fit into the cabinet of the Hales easier than the Seas. I do not know if it's OK to exchange a 4 ohm rweeter for a 6 ohm tweeter. Any opinions?
Impedance ratings are "nominal" at best and vary with frequency. You really have to look at the impedance curve and see how various drivers compare. On top of that, you have to look at the frequency response, sensitivity, dispersion and whether or not the original crossover had any notch filters / impedance networks built into the tweeter circuit. While replacing crossover parts is a walk in the park, replacing drivers is FAR more complex. Sean
Sean is very explicit BUT, things aren't that complicated since: you've worked on the x-over so you know (or the modder should know) the tweeter schematic. You can test the existing tweeter(s) to get the parametres & impedance/ amplitude curves OR, simply, back-calculate the "ideal" tweeter parametres based on the tweet's cross-over...
The only thing you CANNOT do, I guess, is actually listen to a bunch of tweets to decide for yourself. Take a look at the LDSG
for a few ideas. You don't need to hurry!!
Oooops just remembered the "killer" Vifa tweet fm their XT series. It's the 25TG30-04 (4 ohm, as indicated).
Mitchb - I have a pair of T-5's and would be interested in upgrading them as an alternative to buying new speakers. Let me know what you decide to do and how it has improved the overall sound. What are you hoping to achieve with the upgrades?
Gregm , The 25TG30-04 are too small physically for my speakers. I think they are 104mm and I need 110.4 to avoid major cabinet work. I went with the Seas Millenium as they are the correct size and I hear they are pretty good.
Dawgbyte, I upgraded my Hales T5's for the same reason you want to. I didn't want to buy new speakers and take a huge loss on the Hales. It was kind of the best of both worlds by upgrading the components. At least so far the crossover mods have been successful. I completely redid my crossovers and internal cabling of my Hales to expensive but appropriate parts with success but be careful if you mod your speakers as it is a gamble. Things could go wrong from what I'm hearing. I got lucky.
I took the plunge an installed the Seas Millenium about 20 hours ago. It is a nice improvement as far as I can hear. I don't know how it would read on a test but it sounds awesome. I'm excited and am not putting back the origional tweeters. These tweeters are beautiful. I cannot find any fault to them sonically or physically. They look cool too. They match my midrange drivers.
Mitch forwarded me some test results that Madisound ran for him. They did this with the actual tweeters in use with the specific crossover values that the Hales use. From what i can see, the Millennium and the Hales appear to be a very nice match and pretty much of a "drop in" upgrade / replacement. With all of the crossover parts upgraded and the tweeter replacement, i have no doubt in my mind that the speakers probably sound quite a bit better than stock. Probably by a long-shot. Sean
Having also seen the graphs from Madisound, Sean and I are in agreement once again.
Despite Mitch's initial trepidation and warnings from some here on Audiogon, this was a classic no brainer. In fact, I feel so STRONGLY about this, I would have dropped the tweeter in before doing the crossover mods.
What a lot of people do not realize is that one of the BIGGEST things that separates the good speakers from the great speakers is taking care of the treble. Outside of the cabinet and crossovers, I feel the next thing that a budget chops from a speaker is a reference level tweeter. A $10 tweeter will give you detail, which can initially impress. A $100 tweeter will give you that detail combined with a relaxed sound that puts into the audiophile's mind that they are listening to a very polished product. The effects on listenability that removing a harsh treble does cannot be understimated, the speaker itself becomes so much more relaxed that one often underestimates it.
Mitchb - This sounds encouraging, indeed.
So to recap... you've upgraded the XO and replaced the Vifa tweeter with a Seas Millenium. Did Magisound do the work for you or did you do it yourself? Ball park what are we looking at in terms of cost.
What would you say is the most notable characteristic of the Seas tweeter in comparison to the Vifa? I run my Hales with a Mirage 15" 400 watt sub and I think it sounds pretty sweet. I think the Hales could be a little more transparent and halographic, but I'm 100% sure this is due to the fact the Hales require significant juice to maximize their potential and I'm currently under powering them by at least 100 SS watts.
Dawgbyte, The Vifa tended toards a little harsh or brilliant sounding and the Seas is more mellow and airy without loss of detail.It's quite obvious the Millenium are far superior. My speakers are more sophisticated sounding.I'm happy and excited. the tweeters were $155 each and the crossover mods were $800 but you could do nice things with your crossovers for alot less money.
You guys paul hales is an electrical engineer.just dropping in some tweeters is crazy i own these speakers and dont have any of the problems you are talking about.i know some things about that tweet that i cant tell you since my boss and paul desighned them and they are one of the advanced desighns still today. there is way to much involved in exchanging drivers.now i can understand replacing crossover parts which i did on my t-8s i changed out the electrolitic caps in the bass section with some of the new cardas caps and that made a wonderful difference.i dont think it is the speakers there is something else going on here
I think Hales made a wonderful product as it was stock. The only thing I don't like about the Hales is that they are no longer made. As far as my modifications I was experimenting as we all do in this hobby and I've heard of success with the Millenium tweeters on the Hales so I tried it. My speakers were nice stock. They are still nice but different. Hales made a wonderful speaker and it's a shame they are no longer being made. I will hold on to mine.
Wasda150, Is there any chance at all that Hales the Componany will resubmerge?
no i dont think so but he still working in the audio busisness. the tweets are 4 ohm
Thanks Wadia 150, I know the hales vifa tweeters are 4 ohm tweeters but the millenium Seas tweeters which are rated at 6 ohms apparently are still a good match. I am not the only one who has dropped a pair of Seas Millenium tweeters into a pair of T5's. They work nicely. Once again there was nothing wrong with the Hales Vifa tweeters but I changed in an attempt for change.I actually for experimentation sake would love to be able to retry the origional tweeters but mine are long gone.If anyone knows where I could get a opair of Hales tweeters please let me know. I would buy a pair just to try them again.
You can easily buy the Vifa's at www.madisound.com.
Leemincy. I beleive you can get the voice coils for the tweeters at Madisound but not the full Hales Modified tweeters. They have not been in production for a while and Paul Hales modified his slightly so to get a Hales tweeter is not that easy. At least I beleive one would have to look for a while to find a pair. I am happy with my Seas Millenium but would love to hear the Vifa's just to compare.If I'm wrong and the tweeters are available please correct me. I'd buy a pair.