My biggest issue is I have long runs from my amps to the speakers at approximately 60 feet each.
Your listening space is over 120 feet long? This I’ve got to see. Post a photo!
I’d use a custom fabricator btw. Most will work on special order. PM me if you need references.
(PS: Before a spectrum commentator objects, I realize that as described the space may be less than 120 feet long. However, it may well also be longer.)
Isn't it possible to use long 'balanced' interconnects and get the amps near the speakers for shorter speaker wire?
remote switched power for the amps?
make your own? I did it once, knowing nothing about wires.
In 1978, age 30, I had to run 50 ft speaker wires once. Never used anything more than Radio Shack ’lamp cord’ before. My primitive instinct was, need a lot of copper.
Without doing any research, and having no money, I went to electrical supply house, bought 4 spools of heavy gauge solid core wire, 4 different colors, stiff but able to flex/bend/navigate.
Twisted them clockwise for about 4 ft, taped, twisted back other direction 4 ft, tape, back to clockwise, IOW, you don’t need to twist all the same direction which would involve flipping the entire length of wire over every twist.They worked, never a problem.
1998, 20 years later, new arrangement needing only 12’ lengths, doing research, I decided to believe in small solid core, multi strand, individually insulated, jacketed. Sounded like Cat 5, so I twisted two pairs of Cat 5, each leg 8 strands each, been loving them for 22 years, tubes, SS, tubes,
Years later, my friend who always had pricey cables but loved my system before and after, found a company making speaker cables out of cat 5, but using a pair, 16 strands per leg, factory connectors. His runs 10ft. Bought em, loves em to this day.
Point is, what I decided to believe in, very small solid core is opposite of those long large diameter solid core. Difference? I never was able to compare them.
*** I read here not long ago, there can be technical issues with long runs of cat 5 for speakers, others could say ***
Whenever someone has very long runs, I always recommend they first try Blue Jeans 10 gauge and they may get lucky. With one set of speakers, I found BJs to work wonderfully until I tried them on another speaker, which sounded like a tin cup on a cheese grater. But IMO, you should try them and you could totally luck out and save thousands. If they sound like crap, my guess is you could sell them at half price pretty quickly and only be down a couple hundred for your trouble. But at least you'll know.
At that length I’d absolutely make my own. Otherwise I’d look to something good but lower on the cost spectrum like Audio Envy. Best of luck.
you make a great point; however, setting up my amps in the room is not practical. I went down that road. Appreciate the thinking though.
The distance from the mechanical room to the speakers are 60 feet not 120 feet. Yes I do need a total of 120 combined for the main speakers.
Have you checked whether Transparent would even make/supply a cable that length? And then the price??
See what Audio Envy quotes you.
Thanks for your input twoleftears. I checked and they will make 60 foot runs. They advise to use the brick with it. I was seeing if anyone could confirm this is a good choice or for me to look at some alternatives.
That is a very long run......
1) Choose a wire at most 8 gauge, not any more. Basically the idea is to reduce the resistance. The thicker the wire (lower the gauge), the less its resistance. The resistive contribution of the wire should be no more than about 5-10% of the output impedance of your amplifier, to minimize losses.
2) Make sure it is copper as pure as it can be. Silver is a bit better but at that length it will cost a ridiculous amount.
3) Do NOT coil the wire, keep a straight line run as much as possible, otherwise inductance will increase.
4) Try and change your room as a last resort, that long a wire is very unusual. I am sure your speakers are not 120 feet apart....
#4 or #6 welding cable would be a good and inexpensive choice
I use Mogami speaker cables exclusively. They are used in studios and should accommodate longer runs.
check with Auditorium23 in Germany, their cable is designed for minimum resistance and very high quality. Not sure though whether they will ship that length. Better solution would be having the amps behind the speakers on balanced interconnects
For better performance, it is much better having long interconnect cables (balanced if possible) rather than long speaker cables. Generally, you should try to keep speakers cables as short as possible
Absolutely correct kennyc. If space/arrangements allow, move just the power amps nearer the speakers and keep the long runs at line level where issues are easier? Yes, balanced, as professionals use for long runs.
If this is impossible, what about active speakers with power amps on board?
@woots’For 60’ or 20m runs with your amp/speaker setup you could use 12 or 14 gauge speaker cable rated at 99% OFC. This will keep your budget affordable and sound clean. You do not need the hyper expensive so so cable. Make sure the connectors are as good as you can as afford and cleanly connected. All good 😊. 🇦🇺
Thanks to everyone who has assisted so far! Unfortunately, I am not able to locate my amps any closer to the speakers which I know would be ideal. Keep the ideas coming.
The reason the run is 60 feet long is based on getting the wire from my mechanical room to my listening area. I have to go through the ceiling in my basement then drop down the wall behind my speakers. I have had two installers come by and this is the only way we have found it to be able to work.
Use any good ofc copper of 14 awg from monoprice or like company. Run one wire for each terminal. Twist the ends together and terminate with preferred connector. Use shrink wrap to color code. If effect you’re getting two 14 gauge wires on each terminal you’ll need to run 4 wires. It’s easier to manipulate and you can get a 300ft spool from monoprice for about $100. If preferred you can get 12 awg for a few more dollars.
Richard Vandersteen has always said for best sound you need to go with the shortest speaker cables possible. If you have no choice for long runs they need to be your inner connects for the components not the speaker wire. You need to rethink your set up.
sgreg1 is exactly correct. If you can run two 60' lengths of speaker cable than you can obviously run a pair of 60' length signal connecting cables. That is still a long run so it would have an impact on the cost-per-foot of signal cable, unless you have an unlimited budget. But still, you can get a reasonably good quality pair of 60' signal connecting cables for a few hundred dollars. Is there any reason that you can't locate your amp where the speakers reside and leave the rest of your system in the mechanical room? It would be so much better to connect a fairly short pair of high quality speaker cables. Given your circumstance, you would then have the best solution for sound quality.
Thanks mammothguy54 and sgreg1.....I don't have the adequate room for the amps plus I do have a center channel that has a McIntosh 600 watt mono block plus the center channel itself and 2 large subs. I like the idea that some have posted on running the balanced cables back to the pre-amp but again I need more space.
mammothguy54 and sgreg1 what do you recommend for long runs of balanced cable if I were to figure out a way to get the amps out by the speakers?
balanced connections between amp / preamp are the best results, no hp cable can do better with these lengths.
Balanced cables to the amp seem the best solution.Could you build a false wall across the room to house the amps in and avoid unsightly wires etc?A picture may help with the problem.
Woots, the brand of balanced signal cable is up to you. As long as you choose a balanced cable and not an RCA cable. However, I say that only if your preamp has balanced outputs (many do, in addition to RCA outputs) and your amp has balanced inputs. If your amp does not provide balanced inputs than this is a moot point. If that be the case than you are back to maintaining the amp close to your preamp and having to run long speaker cables. Not the best solution, but for whatever the reason is that you can not locate your electronics in the same room/area as your speakers, you are pigeon holed into a long run of speaker cable.
Stick with Transparent...they will do you right!
I'd recommend that you purchase Mono Amps & place them in close proximity to the speakers.
This would enable you to use SHORT AMPLIFIER Cables (Ideally 3 Ft. or less) & Long Signal Cables, Sound Quality of which are not significantly dependent upon length & can be purchased for a much smaller $$ figure, than Power Cables.
Assuming you are a true Audiophile, this will give you the best SOUND Quality you can get under the circumstances you present.
Looking back, I see that you have some sweet Mono Amps, just figure out how to get them close to the speakers. If you have a basement, the Amps could go there?
Stay with Transparent.
All cable brands sell bulk cable to hi-end custom installers. The cables will pull easier and withstand the physical abuse of retrofit wiring.
At least: No more feedback!
That’s what I decided on with the Bricks.
Have you read any of the threads about Canare 4S11 around here? There are owners raving about this very inexpensive wire and you should be able to get custom lengths made for comparatively little money.