And Ypsilon hybrid integrated, all yours from Greece for about $25k without phono stage. |
Nothing from France, Italy, Germany, Canada, Australia or Sweden?
There must be something. And what about FM Acoustics and Nagra? |
It might be helpful, at least to me, to watch interviews with the designers on youtube. I liked overall what I heard from Gryphon and Ypsilon designers. Quite different people - different amps. Diablo 300 can be equiped with both phono stage and DAC, unlike Diablo 120 where it is either/or because there is simply not enough room in it for both. That Diablo 300 must be a real infernal machine. Fleming Rasmussen uses first and second generation master tape dubs to voice his equipment, and Dimitros - Ypsylon designer- is a professional sound engineer and he personally checks every unit that leaves the factory. Both appear to have a real dedication to what they do. I don't think there is a dealer in the US yet where you could audition both and compare. Gryphon just got a distributor - On A Higher Note and Ypsilon does have a few dealers, I guess, and the distributor is aaudioimports.com, I believe. |
Gryphon has been making integrateds for decades, he knows what he does. Try to find it used, no-one sells them and they sold a lot in Europe and Asia. Ypsilon appears to have more purist approach, they didn't make integrated until very recently. They also make $35k phono stage which is said to be extraodinary.
raindog031, you are certainly right about the match. I think, Flemming of Gryphon wanted to create a very versatile integrated that would match very well with a wide variety of speakers. And it should last for a very long time.
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In addition, at this level there will be ’cultural’ differences. Gryphon represents the essence of Scandinavian sound - clear, dynamic, deep, on a darker side of neutral, and Ypsilon will weave the sophisticated tapestry of the world music. Gryphon will dominate whatever system you put in in and whatever you play, while Ypsilon’s presence will be more subtle and soaring.
In a perfect world I would choose Ypsilon, then I would ask Michael Green to build me custom speakers to work perfectly with it and I would send the Ypsilon to him for that. Then I would consult with Dimitros about recommending external non-Ypsilon phono stage. The alternative to Michael Green custom speakers would be Lansche. Purist Audio, Echole or Stage III cabling and that would be a great sound.
In not so perfect world I would almost certainly choose the Diablo with phono, either 120 or 300.
In less than not so perfect world I would first try Pass INT-60 for $6k used and see what happens.
All these would be for medium size room, and I don’t listen to opera, choral pieces and big orchestra music. If I did this would be either Diablo 300 or separates.
Swiss route is interesting too, though I am reasonably certain that I would prefer either Scandinavian or Greek/Middle Eastern sound, that’s either Gryphon or Ypsilon. |
We may like our whatever we've got but this discussion is not about that. |
Besides, Diablo 300 is about $16k retail without phono or dac and Ypsilon Phaeton is about $25k, if it makes a difference. Diablo 120 is about $11k.
Dartzeel calls the volume knob a "pleasure button". Sounds quite perverse to me. Anyway, power button is more of a 'pleasure button', I'd say. And the way it looks - yuck. |
Ypsilon phono stage is $26k not $35k as I previously posted, plus a few thousands for step-up transformer. I think, Dimitros could find a way to add phono module to his Phaethon integrated, like Gryphon and others do because unless you listen to master dubs on reel to reel deck you will need another $10k or so to add tube phono. It would make no sense to me to go with transistor phono and hybrid integrated and few would consider adding $26k Ypsilon phono to $25k Phaethon - must be great but too much. At the very least he could probably design that hypothetical $10k phono that would sound great too.
Gryphon Diablo does look like a big bargain, doesn't it? But no tubes and not the same level of sophistication. I heard that some LAMM owners replace their LAMMs with Ypsilon, and this is quite telling - they are usually very loyal to LAMM. |
I just checked with the US distributor. |
Diablo 300 - $16000
DAC - $6000
Phono - $2250
Plus sales tax, I presume. |
Another question, though it may not be a question for those who seek simple solution that doesn't take a lot of space, can you do better with separates? I am not sure, probably not, especially if you need DAC. If not..there might be a slight chance. I don't remember the figures for new LAMMs. I think, it is at least $7k for phono, about the same for the preamp and probably around $20k for hybrid monos. Well, most people I know or heard of, if they can afford $25k electronics they can afford $35k electronics as well. |
It's German, never heard of it.
I know this. At this level and for this kind of money I would want something very special. By the way, there is no need for 14 engineers, one is enough. |
I would do audition only with analogue source, a good one. Preferably with Reel to Reel deck. Do you have it in Stockholm too? |
Stockholm's got good hi-fi places. Try to find them in Manhattan.
As I said, excellent sound and build quality should be a given at this level. |
Whatever it is, Ayre designer is dead, I understand, and you don't want to buy this company, especially new. |
pokey77, while it's impossible not to do it to a degree I will try to minimize the reaction to what I am about to say by putting it in a subtle way. Top level solid state designs come from Europe. Tube electronics is another matter. |
Greg, I am not at all sure about the future of any company when chief designer resigns, I'll put it like that. I just wouldn't spend a lot, that's why I said "new", with used relatively inexpensive pieces one could take a risk. |
Diablo 120 is $11k without phono or dac, Diablo 300 is $16k without phono or dac. Unless money is tight I would get Diablo 300. No, have not heard either. |
