Graphene spray and ...


Graphene film is here and I feel potentially incredibly interesting for our hobby.
Magico is coating their 7.5 inch speaker with graphene. Does anyone know 
what method they use?
ptss
Call Alon Wolf I'm sure he won't tell you.
Sounds like trouble to me. I'd need to know a lot more about it before I would entertain such an endever...

Can you write with it? But seriously Graphene is only one molecule thick by definition so however they apply it it must be done very carefully. Maybe with teeny tiny tweezers. Maybe the same way Head applies it to their tennis rackets.
@geoffkait 
So spray would not work only tweezers?
Only tiny tiny tweezers.  The material is so thin it is described as 2 dimensional, much like the original post. 
what did you think was wrong with the original post?  I missed it.
Google "Graphene spray gun".

The process has existed for 2-3 years now.

DeKay

"Can you write with it? But seriously Graphene is only one molecule thick by definition so however they apply it it must be done very carefully. Maybe with teeny tiny tweezers. Maybe the same way Head applies it to their tennis rackets."

Its conductive, so they would most likely electroplate, or use a similar process to apply it.

Spray gun comment is accurate as long as you have rocket fuel and an extremely high temperature oven. I'm still hoping someone knows the answer to my question. 
I defy anyone to spray on a precisely one molecule thickness of Graphene.

If it doesn't make sense it's not true. - Judge Judy

If I play my music real loud, will I blast the one molecule thick graphene right off the drivers?
Same way they get the transparently thin 24 carat gold layer on CDs. Sputtering. Final answer.

Thanks Geoffkait. I'll look into it.
an incorrect answer as sputtering is for conducting materials, like metals

people have tried it and other vapor deposition methods on graphene but only in the lab and it damages the graphene

but check back every decade or so and see ...
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Post removed 
most likely a vacuum chamber and ultrasonic spray system.
PTSS:

Assuming it's not all BS I assume that they use an ultrasonic spray process (don't know how you came up with HT ovens regarding this method).

Also, considering the conductive nature of the Graphene I would not be surprised if the cone material receives a static charge in order to better/more uniformely attract the conductive Graphene mist.

Such charges are used with metal as well as ceramic plating, and I don't see why it would not apply here as well.

Otherwise, ask the manufacturer,
Deekay, I too would have been skeptical if there wasn't so much interesting
literature on this most recent use of the same carbon that's in common lead pencils.
Your ideas on application are not unreasonable but a little research will reveal the
unusual and difficult processes involved that I came across to create graphene. That's why I'm very interested in how Magico claims to have coated their driver with graphene.
Maybe, just maybe, Magico copied the technique Synergistic Research uses to coat the Black fuse with Graphene.

Geoffkait. Please advise as I'm sure you're aware. Thanks
graphene is just the newest buzzword for trolls to use on the technically inastute victims

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep13523

there are many more in the scientific literature

randy-11
an incorrect answer as sputtering is for conducting materials, like metals

Huh? Graphene is one of the most conductive materials in the universe. Which is why it's used to shield the SR Black fuse from RF and to improve conductivity in Graphene cables. Hel-loo!


Kind of OT, but does anyone know the name of a new material with similar properties to Graphene?

I was reading about it a few months ago, but lost the links.

DeKay
there are dozens

try a search for "2D heterostructures" and see what pops up
Deekay, this may help " Beyond the study of graphene in the past decade, the discovery of other two-dimensional (2D) materials, like hexagonal-Boron Nitride (h-BN) and Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2), have opened new doors in materials science and condensed matter physics." From OIST.
 Graphene is the basic structural element of common carbon based materials, including graphite, charcoal, carbon nanotubes and fullerenes(other molecules of carbon).
It is so strong because the electrical attraction between carbon atoms is very strong and that is the source of strength for both graphene and diamond.
Graphene is basically 2-dimensional graphite. Graphite is soft and slippery because it’s in layers of 2-dimensional carbon atom "sheets" weakly bonded to other sheets of similar carbon.

Graphene is therefore a single "sheet" of carbon atoms arranged in hexagons. The carbon-carbon bonds in the 2-D section of graphite (and thus also graphene) are stronger bonds than carbon atom bonds in diamond, hence the "super" properties of graphene.

Graphene is right now rather difficult to make - it was literally discovered by putting a piece of scotch tape on graphite, carefully pullling up the tape leaving a single layer of graphene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene_production_techniques <--- This should answer questions as to how one would apply Graphene to a speaker driver. It $ur€ won't b€ ¢heap....

"Graphene is right now rather difficult to make - it was literally discovered by putting a piece of scotch tape on graphite, carefully pullling up the tape leaving a single layer of graphene."

Huh? Rather difficult? Sounds pretty easy to me. If it was difficult it wouldn't have been discovered accidentally. Tons of DIY videos on YouTube for the avid tweaker.
Thanks joeylawn butthat link didn't offer me any idea to explain the statement I read - that Magico 'was putting a layer of graphene' on the driver. Perhaps the comment was in error, a misunderstanding; and Magico is simply adding graphene particles or flakes to the slurry they use fabricating the driver material. That's the common usage.
geoffkait, he meant to say - difficult to make-- so as to be practically useful. And it is.
Huh? No more difficult than, say, making titanium tweeters or applying a one molecule thick 24 carat Gold reflective layer on Gold CDs. 

The problem with graphene is it's basically a 2-dimensional substance, and that's not the most stable state for a substance to be in - it will tend to "curl up" into the more stable 3-dimensional state, unless special methods are used, like stated in the Wikipedia article.

Sort of related, B&W put a coat of diamond on some of their tweeters, I'm guessing using chemical vapor deposition.
Since the Graphene is used as a coating it can be applied as a thin light tape, which would be stable. You can buy Graphene tape all over the Internet, no big deal. Even better DIY.
Graphene in by itself is highly limited but when combined with others, its enhancements become notable. In the case of the carbon fiber for the driver, its more likely to be added to the resin solution used in the forming cone and fills in gaps in which remaining resin would typically remain. My expectation is the stiffer cone aided in pushing the cone breakup a bit further out.

The issue that remains crucial with graphene is methods of its application. A few years of experimentation were required to optimize the application of graphene to improve rubber products such as tires and shoe soles. In rubber tires, it resulted in improved strength in the rubber without reducing other performance areas like compound grip. In some respects, it improved grip performance as the lattice aided in maintaining is structural shape of the tread pattern under load. This is often called tread squirm. 

BAC's wheels used on their Mono race car and some experimental bike frames achieved a 20% reduction in overall mass without loss of overall modulus of the finished product. You might even see its application in cabinets construction that use composite materials at some point.

This in addition to the broadened use of pitch based carbon fiber still leaves some development to take place in material science.  
Mmeysarosh I followed up on your comments and found it very interesting
how the graphene helps tire performance in a number of ways. It could find interesting application in ultra high power dragsters where sidewall wrinkling wastes power. I think it will ultimately 
be useful in a number areas in audio,particularly in cones and domes,perhaps competing with diamond, and also maybe even in providing more precision in the rubber surrounds.and as an extreme performance surround material.
Samsung has publicly stated they have allocated Three billion dollars for Graphene research and product development this year.
Very interesting davidpritchard. They have their fingers in so many pies. It's bound to be interesting. It appears that graphene is vastly more exciting than diamonds,kevlar,spectra,teflon--as it has qualities that seem to give the potential of it surpassing all commercial applications.
Looking into Samsung's research it appears they're on the cusp of making use of it for transistors. And as graphene transmits electrical signals 200 times faster than the currently used material it's not hard to see the potential. 

ptss, does faster transmission of electrical signal necessarily mean better sound?

If the signal is transmitted 200 times faster using Graphene that means the audio signal will be traveling approximately 150 times faster than the speed of light. Whoa!!

Maybe Samsung should use Graphene in their smart phone batteries.
I agree with Geoff’s comment about the 200x factor. (Gee, that’s the second time in a week I’ve agreed with him :-))

As can be seen in this Samsung press release the 200x factor applies to "electron mobility," not to signal transmission speeds. As can be seen in the Wikipedia writeup, electron mobility is defined as the ratio of electron drift velocity to the strength of the electric field which causes that electron drift. As was recently discussed here in the Cerious Technologies thread electron drift velocity is **vastly** slower than signal propagation.

Basically, what Samsung is envisioning is that the use of graphene can potentially lead to integrated circuit devices, such as computer CPUs and other microprocessors, that internally are much faster than what can be achieved with traditional technologies.

Regards,
-- Al

With manufactures expressing that success with graphene is very dependent on application, some time and experimentation will likely be required.

It may have a benefit in speaker driver surrounds as its structure in rubber aid in rebound. We've also seen carbon epoxy implementations that may add to driver diaphragms that are carbon composite. Likely reduction in distortion and further frequency response range before breakup. Some speaker cabinets may benefit with its application.

It was thought that graphene could be use in voice coil as yarn had been recently developed, but now that stanene outed as graphene's tin derived cousin and it shows now resistance at all until 100C, it may become bypassed as a conductor.

The Mat-Sci lab is going to be an interesting place be and I have little doubt some will end up in audio products at some point. Might be a bit until affordability makes it more than just a lab experiment though.
Hey jeeter, not better; but, maybe 'faster' ?? lol
Geoffkait, once we're talking faster than the speed of light-I think it's getting "verry interestink" per Sgt. Schultz
Thanks almarg.
If new graphene technology can make our 
preamp,amp and digital equipment 'faster' I think 'cleaner' signals will be the result; giving us better sound.
Mmeysaroch. Very interesting. I think distortion reduction and the extended
frequency response w/o breakup would be terrific benefits. Luckily there's so much research going on I think we'll get products fairly soon (not the current products that advertise graphene but are probably using plain old graphite ; as there's no explanation about their manufacturing processes-which have to be discussed to be believed).