Boy did you touch on my pet project of winter 2004!!This is a critical adjustment that can make or break the ultimate performance of this arm.I spent the good part of winter into spring RE-LEARNING to dial in these parameters.What I'm really refering to is the CRITICAL FLUID LEVEL!Obviously the adjustments for anti-skate/VTA/downforce/and azimuth are critical,but,it is the amount of fluid in the bearing that really brings out the supreme level of performance that this arm is capable of,IN A HIGH RES SET-UP.What I find so frustrating is the fact that the mainstream audio press has never been really specific as to just how critical it is.Afterall,this arm is very popular,and,has been discussed(in length)on numerous occassions.I guess they are too busy pushing Home Theater to the YUPPIES that will ultimately own SKY BOXES (BIG BUCKS)in the proposed JETS STADIUM,in NYC,that will ultimately push out all the "REAL" fans.The same way the audio press is pandering to the "JUST GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE CROWD".Hoping to SHILL some 5.1 stuff.What about those CLASSIC covers of old TAS issues that were printed in TAS.Those audio journals really catered to the true hobbyist.Now we are a forgotten breed and must use forums like this to find out technical stuff that used to be covered regularly.Those that go back a ways know what I'm griping about.Afterall in"The analog Column"of a famous audio journal,the reviewer,who owns this exact arm, has never been specific in lettimg the reader know anything about the INCREDIBLE SENSITIVITY OF THE FLUID LEVEL.All that had been mentioned was,from my memory here,"the fluid should be about half way up the bearing shaft".I have found that going up and down a pinhead at a time results in clearly audible changes that you will recognize immediately!Why this could not be mentioned in one of the Audio Mags is a mystery to me,but, I have a sneaky suspicion that these so called reviewers never experimented to this degree, to find out.Too many new updates for them to keep up with?So, they never get to the actual EXACT SETTING?Believe me there is No approximate setting with the Graham(2.0 or 2.2,I have no familiarity with the Phantom),but,once you have learned to play around with the "RUBIC'S CUBE personality of the Graham,you will find that when it is dialed into an EXACT SWEET SPOT,you KNOW IT!OK.Let's get specific.Firstly I'm going to assume that you have your arm set correctly regarding Azimuth and correct antiskate(easy to do).Even though you ask about the fluid level,only,the fact is that there is a definite correlation between fluid as well as downforce,and VTA.I read a fine article last year in HI FI NEWS that discussed in length the effect of downforce on VTA and visa versa.This started me thinking about what I was hearing in my system,as well as some of my friend's set-ups.I have a friend with an air bearing arm (AIR TANGENT).It always frustrated me that every time I heard my records on his set-up there was an INCREDIBLE lack of a subtle grainy thinness,that I have come to idetify as groove distortion.I believe that some of the colorations we hear in an analog rig,are actually these distortions,which are easy to confuse with those of what we think other components are adding!Obviously other things,in my friend's set-up could be helping,but,because I'm so familiar with his rig,and the fact that I have pretty good stuff,I've come to these conclusions by TORMENTING MYSELF in trying to find the secret within the Graham's fluid level.There were many occassions,on Saturday evenings,when I had my wife screaming at me to "shut off the stereo or we'll be late for a dinner engagement".I always needed to hear one more piece of Oboe material or flute,for the airyness in the players breath when you have it right,or massed voices etc.It was a "REAL NIGHTMARE" and, I LOVED IT!!I want to stress that in order to get the fluid level EXACT(as it MUST be)you must SLIGHTLY RE-ADJUST THE vta AND DOWNFORCE EACH TIME YOU MAKE A slight change.iF YOU CARTRIDGE HAS A RECOMMENDED FORCE OF BETWEEN 1.7 AND 2.2 GRAMS,START AT ABOUT 2.0.vta WILL HAVE TO BE DONE BY EAR,SINCE THER IS no EXACT SPOT.Start with the armtube parallel to the record.The fluid level should be set slightly under halfway on the bearing shaft.Ultimately, you are going to be better off with the level slightly lower,since this will open up the sound and increase bass.There is a resonant signature from too little fluid.Don't worry. Experimenrt as you play music and you will soon be able to make chamges,ALWAYS slight,on the fly.You will ultimately become intimately familiar with how the 3 parameters(VTA/downforce/Fluid level)all work in conjunction with one another.If you have a bit of undershoot in fluid,and you don't want to add anymore(since too much overdamps the sound)you can add a tiny bit of downforce to compensate.Remember to only work with TINY amounts of adjustments at a time.Always stay within the recommended parameters on downforce.The fluid should,MUST,be added or subtracted a PINHEAD at a time.It is that critical!!!Don't worry,you will get the feel quickly.Vta can be moved up or down until it sounds open and clean.ALL three variables,as I've stated work in proportion to oneanother.This whole procedure will take MULTIPLE LISTENING SESSIONS.Just when you think you have it right,you probably DON'T.As I said multiple sessions.Remember,and I'm not kidding,though it sounds crazy,"the fluid HATES YOU".It is SO critical to work in adding or subtracting PINHEADS AT A TIME,THAT YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT.I really believe that those who have been unhappy with this GREAT arm never mastered this.I don't really blame them.It has taken me and my friend's who have it ages to realize how critical dialing in all 3 parameters TOGETHER are.Every time we think the fluid level is perfect,some other complex LP brings out an area where it needs further tuning.This is a fact!Patience will reward you,and you will easily learn to listen for the types of inner groove distortions that will help you to identify problem areas in other systems(analog based,of course).It may be a pain in the ass,but will be an education as well.I was invited to my Air Tangent pal's house recently,to hear his new TITAN cartridge.It was immediately clear to me that there was a subtle grain riding with the music.A vta adjustment solved it.If I hadn't been so fanatical with my Graham's signature,I don't think we would have taken care of the problem as quickly as we did.You will learn to identify this groove distortion in other systems.It won't make you popular with some of your less critical audio friends,but,you will know the signature sound I'm talking about.As for what I listen for in the music.I have a recordingcalled La FESTE DE LE ANNE(The feast of the ass) on the Harmonia Mundi label.There is a ton of difficult to track stuff on this disc.Difficult to track in the way the timbres should sound.There is a hand held shaker of tiny bells that overwhelm the listening area when all is right.These tiny bells should sound almost like a series of tiny metallic bubbles,shimmering with a real dynamic of their own. They must sound like metal,not,glassy,or the dialing in,is off.I,also,listen to a Melodya(EMI) recording of Rachmaninov's VESPERS.This has TONS of complex male and female chorus that can be VERY demanding of tracking.It should sound clean with a real sense of hall,and vocal naturalness.Hard to describe.This may sound crazy,but,you want to shoot for a subtle degree of what I call RESONANT LIFE in the arm's set-up.You can easily damp this down too much to cover up distortions.OR,you can make it sound too brittle and hard.What you want is a Resonant Glow from your system.There should be a real dynamic"jump"that cames from having the arm's parameters set.The fluid level is of Paramount importance here.If you want to control resonance and want a bit of undershoot in fluid,which will give the most openness,but can sound too bright and hard if too little is used,you can add a bit of downforce or lower vta slightly.YOU must experiment.A LOT.There is no other way.I have an album of hand bell music which is useful here.It is called The Pealing Bells of The Weatminster Handbell Choir.Great stuff.Gorgeous music.If you have ever been to a hand bell choir concert you will be able to dial in,with the arm,a metallic glow that should jump up the walls of your listening room.This should also be accompanied by an ultra delicacy,that is gorgeous to hear.Well I'm sorry for BLOVIATING. Hope you find this helpful! |
Sorry! I forgot to mention a key point,that will let you know you are really close to optimum, in set up.That is the way "Acoustic Bass" (double bass instruments)should sound when you have gotten into the "ZONE".I was content with a close approximation of what I thought was fine until I brought some of my discs to my friend,who owns the Air bearing arm.He happens to be a firm believer in NO damping.He chose the Air Tangent for this reason.
What I heard(this was the main reason I started to play around,in the first place)was "Real" visceral impact from "Very Lightly Plucked Notes" on side #2 of the EMI recording of Ida Haendal performing Sibelius violin music.There are some beautiful interwoven lines of music on three tracks,after the Violin Cto. has ended.These consist of softly plucked double bass that I was not coming close to getting.
I told my friend of my frustration and since he is the opposite of almost all Ego Driven Magazine types I've met(he did write the Mercury column in TAS) he suggested,actually demanded he come over to my place and listen.Since he does not own my stuff all he said when leaving was," the performance I was looking for was potentially there,but it was up to me to learn how to get to it".This guy NEVER tells anyone to "go buy new stuff" and he is the most critical listener I know.He also knows how these damn records should sound since he has the first pressing of almost anything.Classical or Jazz,with some cute different stuff thrown in.He's my YODA!
Getting back to the double bass issue.Even at low level,as opposed to low volume,once you have the fluid level "Right" you will hear a real sense of "SNAP".That is the only way I can describe it.When fingers are plucking, it will sound slightly "Muddled" if there is too much fluid.When you have reached the correct point there will be a sense of a bit more depth to the bass,and more ambience to the space where the event was recorded.This is when you crack open the bottle of "GOOD STUFF".You're done!
Only because I felt I had good equipment,and could get more from it(after hearing a superior set-up)was I willing to get this OBSESSED with this detail.I'm sure my tennis pals would never understand why I was putting in this kind of time on a dumb tweak,when I should be practicing my serve.
Only because I had a really great friend with a superior set-up(and was open minded enough to admit it to myself)and he knows the sound of what is on these discs, for what they should sound like,and honestly told me to save my money(when I was unhappy)and keep trying,did I decide to get "ADMITTEDLY, OVER THE TOP OBSESSED" that I'm sure you all must think I am.But,I did learn something.I'm never going to take anything this far again.My arms hurt from holding that bearing so still,and my eyes ache from watching out, to make sure the fluid doesn't leak into the outer assembly.
If I had not done all this I probably would have found a way to ratioalize my sound.At least I know for sure I'd have had a much better serve! |
I hope I'm about done adding to this thread.This is a
popular arm,so I guess it isn't a wasted effort.Now you see why I was so pissed off with the mainstream audio press for not EVER mentioning any of this stuff.Arthur Salvatore sure has my devoted respect!!
Sbrown,Although there has been statements to the slight colorations in the Air Tangent design,my friend took it to the extreme and replaced the standard compressor with his dentists commercial unit.I can hear the laughter.I did too, when he told me of his decision,and I saw it(looking exactly like a motor boat engine,in his spare room).However this allowed more pressure to be applied to the bearing,in effect stiffening it.This cancelled out any colorations and really improved the bass and mid bass.I really don't think any arm can match this level of performance.
As for the 2.2 I am really,so happy with the current performance that I don't care about attaining that last degree my friend has.However when I go to his home I immediately hear that "Breathy Ambient Glow" the Air design affords.Remember,there is NO resonant bearing characteristic that has to be "STROKED".I know some other pivot designs don't have the need for bearing damping,but IMO only,since I am no expert,they also have their own issues.Anyway,at this point I really think this is an advantage of the 2.2!!Tuneability to the max!!
The best way to improve our systems,and I've seen descriptions of many of your set-ups,that look GREAT,and probably sound as well,is to hear other hobbyists' rigs.Live music is essential,but since we know it cannot be reproduced,how would you begin to suspect that something like tweaking out a resonant characteristic would help your own sound,if you didn't hear it elsewhere!
Cjsmithmd, I should have mentioned this,but,my way doesn't have to be exclusively adhered to.I carefully unscrew the bearing cap and place it down,with the fluid facing up,obviously.Then,since I work with such small amounts of fluid,I allow a pinhead's amount to be picked up(from the syringe) with a needle tip or pin.Sometimes I've been lazy and used my wife's bobby pin tips.There were times when my "always hyper-critical" pals showed up where I had to improvise, on the fly,during a listening session,and have used other pointy articles.It is up to you.Just take it off the end of the syringe(sp?).Even if you squeeze out just a light bubble of the stuff.This way you are assured of working with small and exact quantities.Also,REMEMBER to hold the bearing in place for about a minute or two,exactly over the fluid housing,so as not to drip any residue into the arm assembly,or you will hate me!All in all,it is really not hard to work with.I used to "HATE" to touch my stuff,and my sound suffered.
Whew!!! |
You guys really are getting the hang of it.Obviously quite a few already know a great deal.
As for me,and my habits,I dial in a wide variety of program material,over quite a few listening sessions.When I am satisfied I go back to the most troubling discs,to re-hear them (some discs just plain suck,and you have to be able to realize when to give up and move on).
I do not overly concern myself with the fact (correctly stated)that the fluid must settle over time.If I did wait, the results from tweaking would not be remembered easily,and the difference is not really all that great.A wait of only 5 minutes will tell you all you need to know!
Other than that, Doug is on the money!!The only thing I want to stress is that you don't have to feel as though you have to continuously play around with this thing.You definitely will,and must,in the beginning,but that is to get the feel for the differences the three parameters each contribute.Once you are in the "Close to Being Right" zone,you may only need to dial in one parameter.
Technically, the VTA can be changed for each record,but,to me that is rediculous (unless you have an arm,like the mega-buck Air Tangent,with electronic/remote VTA adjustment).Boy would I love that!!
I would have to assume that it would simply be a matter of common sense, when we change to a different cartridge.I would certainly have to re-dial new parameters,but,at this point you already have a real feel for what you want.
As for the effect of the VTA/Damping/Downforce being adjusted in conjunction with one another.They definitely affect one another.To play around(within safety parameters)a bit here will only make you a better set-up person for this arm.Obviously, once you learn how each of the three variable parameters effect the music on hand(there better be plenty of different musical stuff here)you don't have to get too "NUTS" with dialing in all three, everytime you want to illicit a amall change. One thing,for sure,is that a difference of 1/100 of a gram in downforce can make a huge difference in sound.
In summary, I just want to state that my approach is not something written in stone!! I don't like to overdampen,by adding too much fluid.In some set-ups a bit more fluid than I like may be better.What I try to do is go a bit under(just a little) the smoothest resulting fluid level.This to me,as I've mentioned,gives the most open and dynamic sound,but you really have to be careful not to bring out the potential "BRIGHTNESS" that can be a result,if you aren't careful.To counteract any overly bright sound or hardening,from going(just a "smidgen")light on fluid,and as long as you are not at the top of the manufacturers recommendation for downforce, you should(at least I do)add a very small amount of additional downforce.This seems to stabilize the tracking and keeps resonance at a minimum.
If this does not work for me,than I need to add just a TINY bit more fluid,and decrease the downforce to my original point,to hear for that setting.Always you can,also,at any point,ply around with the VTA as an alternative to any of the above,BUT,you WILL KNOW THAT ALREADY,if you don't accept "good enough is fine" performance.I don't.
I promise you this is my last thought here.When I speak to the downforce amounts I adjust to,I'm talking about no more than 1/100 of a gram at a time.Sometimes I move the adjustment so little,that there is no reading on my stylus force guage,but I hear it,and,NO I do not check my stylus force guage for every adjustment.You won't have to either,once you get the feel of all this.At the end (yes there is an end)I check my guage to make sure I'm tracking at a safe setting.I'm now at a point where I'm done tweaking my system,thank goodness.So what is my reward? I just had my table updated,just to come back to me with a faulty motor.Now, an additional month,at least.This hobby really "SUCKS" sometimes!!!
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Thanks for the gratitude! Believe me,it has been my great pleasure to discuss this matter. Nobody,and I have many audio friends,some owning 2.2's,some JMW,Air Tangent,Immedia etc.Nobody helped me as I am the only guy in my little club that has 16.00 in tolls to get to my house,so visits are not too frequent.
That is one reason I am so down on the "audio experts" in the highly visible press.They are,to a great degree,just "FREAKIN'" hobbyists,like you and me.They are taken way too seriously.This topic should have been discussed on plenty of occassions in the mags!As John Belushi would have said "But,NOOOO!" these guys are to busy shilling stuff they really know little about other than they "WANT" it at a discount.Why do you think someone becomes an audio journalist( I know quite a few,at arms length,thank GOD).For the salary,ha! My pal YODA made dreck as a reviewer.He did it out of "LOVE" for the music/hobby.He owns 22 year old speakers that today's "YUPPIE Young Pishers" would not look at,to their loss.
Larry,Doug,and the rest of those whose set-ups I've seen descriptions of.If you really think what you own is not at least 98.787% of the "reviewers choice" stuff It's time to take up photography or better yet,tennis,as I'll be moving to Florida in 2 years.We can have a good hit.
I recently went to two high line audio homes in NYC.One a rich hobbyist with too much money.Never keeping anything long enough to learn how to set it up properly.300,000.00 worth of,literally, the worst sound I've ever heard.I took a day off in anticipation.I left about 45 minutes later.The reference material? KODO drums!!MAN!!
A week later I was at a former high line audio mag reviewer's home.This was only 250,000.00 worth of stuff.This guy LOVED himself.I wouldn't dare to mention what I owned.He would have sneered me out of his "Robbon Chair".Truthfully,it did sound good,but had the worst mid bass bloat I had ever heard in any set-up.This is a person recommending to us,the masses,how we should spend our money!!My pal,YODA,with a set-up averaging about 10 years old per unit,has IMO Dead Perfection in virtually every area I can think of.Why?He could care less about "BUZZ" stuff.His own set of standards are unwavering.
I hope I'm not coming off like I myself am some kind of self important snob.I know nothing.Then I see true experience,like my pal Sid.I do know that there are "TONS" of GREAT set-ups out there.I've heard alot.I love all different types of audio presentations in differing systems.There is no such thing as a reviewers choice,just a hobbyists personal prefference.
Doug,as for your comments about the "lack of resolution" in the Graham's VTA adjustment,compared to the Wheaton.I owned a Wheaton for 4 years.You do realize the Graham's scale is set for much smaller adjustments(as in more precise).Think LEICA here.There should be NO problem when adjusting on the fly,if everything is set properly.
Also,Doug--That really was great stuff on the damping differences in different arms.You really are a true "expert",and it is obvious.I'm serious!!
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Doug it was not my intention to get into a Julian Hirsch "you show me your spec,and I'll show you mine" disagreement.Both arms can resolve what I wanted.Who cares if one requires my finger to move another 1/2 inch.I'm in shape!The Tri-Planer had "PLAY" in the vta adjustment.Even though I was able to adjust without the use of the "Useless" scale markings,it was still a great arm.
The Graham requires utmost "ideal" damping accuracy to get anything right.To me this is "NOW" not a problem.I like the Graham better.Others like other arms.I have a friend who just replaced his Graham with the new "longer" JMW.He is as in the clouds over it's superiority, over the Graham as Larry is with the UNIV.This all means nothing,since everything is subjective.Heck,I'd trade my 2.2 in a heartbeat for a KUZMA AIRLINE or AIR TANGENT(with motor boat sized dentist office pump only).
Larry,thanks for coming off as such a good guy.
Doug,don't think I'm trying to be argumentative.
It's not either of your faults that the Jets kick Dolphin butt every year.Sorry,that is the only point that is "NOT SUBJECTIVE"!! |
Raul,just when I attempted to defend some of your previous posts as "INNOCENT ENTHUSIASM out of love for this hobby",you go and try to be antagonistic!!What do you expect to get from this type of response?Stay entertaining and informative(I know you've done that in the past),and you will be better off,and respected for contributions to subject matter!!I mean this in the most "POSITIVE" way.I think you are a well meaning hobbyist!!
Jeff,read my previous posts re fluid,etc.
The azimuth can(I did it this way)be done by putting a very small mirror on the platter.Drop the cartridge on this,with the table turned "OFF"!!!Look at the stylus tip,and reflection, from the FRONT.You want to see the angle of the stylus as COMPLETELY VERTICAL...Obviously,if you have a test record you can check for this,or better yet, Graham has a little CHACHKA that plugs in and serves the same purpose.
Any adjustments for azimuth can be made by turning the little side weights,one way or the other,for balance.It's easy and actually fun,especially when you get a handle on everything, and realize that you can adjust your stuff with "CONFIDENCE" that comes from trying for yourself,and learning first hand.
I used to be paranoid about touching my stuff.Later I realized,from trial and error,that I became a pretty good set-up man.Now I won't even have a dealer do my work.No one will be as fanatically careful as me(my own hang up here),and at least I learn about my own equipment that way!!
To save you some time reading every post.On the application of the fluid.The pointy "THINGY" is the bearing.That is attached to a "SQUARE" shaft.Only in the beginning do I "VERY CAREFULLY" put some fluid in the WELL itself.In order to work "PROPERLY" with fluid levels you must think about the "Checking" of fluid like the checking of oil,from your car.The "SQUARE" shaft is where you get your measurement from.You,ultimately,want to START with the fluid about,just under,1/2 the way up the SQUARE shaft.You have to replace(screw) and then take out the bearing shaft(easy to do)for a visual reading.
This can and will take multiple repetitions before you get it right!!It is the ONLY way to really dial in the arm.
At first,when you have shot a small amount of fluid (Small amount,then check "dip stick/shaft)into the actual bearing well, you will have to gauge as to how close you have come to getting it about 1/2 way up the shaft.Just unscrew and check,possibly a few times,until you are close to 1/2.If you go way over,carefully take a Q-tip and clean some out.Be really careful here,you don't want any residue in the well.Also hold bearing in place over the well for about a minute or two so as NOT to leak any fluid in any part of the arm assembly.Sounds hard,but easy!
After that ALL ADDITIONS OR SUBTRACTIONS OF FLUID are made by taking out the bearing shaft and checking for level,based on the sound you are hearing from music in play(here check previous posts).You squeeze, from the syringe,an itsy amt. of fluid,and pick it up with the tip of a pin or toothpick.This is really easy to do.Then carefully apply to the tip of the "UNSCREWED" and facing up bearing tip (THE POINTY TIP
After that screw back the BEARING assembly and listen,as described in previous posts.YOU WILL HAVE TO REPEAT THIS PROCESS QUITE A FEW TIMES before you get it right.
DON'T WORRY.Once you get the hang of it,it is really easy.Also,something I had forgotten to mention earlier.Try to have some audio-pals over when you perform these adjustments.It is advantageous to have extra "CRITICAL" ears on hand.
For any other potential questions,could you PLEASE read previous posts FIRST.I think about everything is covered there. |
Vac man,could you,please list the cartridges that you have previously owned.Thanks.This will be very useful to me as I am currently recommending the UNIV. to a VERY sceptical,and suspicious of "THE LATEST BREAKTHROUGH PRODUCT" friend.
He has been around the block too many times to get too excited about the numerous breakthroughs this hobby spews out regularly.I myself believe this cartridge to,probably,be the real deal!! |
I expect a hefty commission if that manual comes to fruition!!I may need the dough to purchase a ZYX UNIV!Ya see Larry you "ARE" a pretty good salesman!!!
Doug,just when I was expecting some kind of defensive comeback(although not necessary)you go and make an "INCREDIBLY" nice offer!!Larry has also been very open about discussing,via the TELE the finer points of this potential winning design.However you have to hear something in real-time to determine it's merits.I would certainly make an effort to contact him if I decide to visit family in FLA.That would surely be an interesting listening session.
Hey Larry,hope you clear up that "room brightness" you alluded to.I' very picky!!
Back to your offer Doug.It's IMO too nice.You don't know me at all.I have,in the past,actually been ripped off(A Tandberg tapedeck).This happened 20 yrs ago,but I never forgot that feeling.I hope you never experience that.
That being said,and assuming you are sincere,I will ask my pal "YODA" if he is up to it.Right now he is without a cartridge,since his new TITAN has crapped out.This is the second one in a year.He is very frustrated,but has MANY connections,except he thinks this one may not go so well,since he already got a replacement for free.
I,due to Larry's enthusiasm,and credibility, have given my pal a HUGE pitch on the UNIV.Basically I told him not to turn his back on what may be the next great transducer recommended by the "BIG BOYS" of which my pal has associated with in the past.He is,though, an independent thinker,but he gets alot of feedback through his "IN" channels.Although that IMO means "CRAP" since we are all just "HOBBYISTS".
What he is looking for is a design that can compete with the likes of the XV1-S,TITAN(but doesn't break)MYABI,and the TRANSFIGURATION TEMPER V(low output)which I have and is "FRIGGIN" great.I guess as of now he's leaning slightly towards a COLIBRI.WHY? I have no idea!
This all goes out the window if he gets another TITAN,though we feel may present problems again,in his Air Tangent.
The only reason I got so wordy here,although as you know I do that alot(sorry),is because your offer is so damn nice, that I'm going to mention this to him.He is off to CANADA to visit with another audio pal (and record collector-extraordinaire),next week,but I bet he jumps at this.Larry did a good job.
By the way he lives in Brooklyn.If this comes off you won't be sorry,that I can promise.We'll see in a week or two.Thanks alot.
I get to meet another "GONE'R".Have a good tadoo over the Graham vs Wheaton.Hear the UNIV.You get to sample the system I call the best I've heard.Kill any reputation I may have,regarding my blathering about how good I think it is,if it's not(I'm not worried here).You get to sample "LEON's" bakery products(guaranteed better than the UNIV "experience").AND--we both hear some of the lp's in the "GUARANTEED BEST FRIGGIN RECORD COLLECTION IN THE USA.
I'll see what I can do!!
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Doug,I never took any of your,useful and educated comments as argumentative.I was very happy with my Triplaner,but,found the Graham a better match for my table.This had more to do with the fact that in order for the Wheaton to fit my arm's mounting area,and to fascilitate the "DOWNWARD" pitch of my arm,with respect to my Transfiguration Temper V's excessive vta "backslope" I needed a spacer between the cartridge and the headshell.You could imagine how pissed off I was at my dealer for not realizing this.Especially when I asked him to check this out.
That being said,who cares if I have to move the "FRIGGIN" Graham adjustment a little more than the Triplaner?It's still "dead accurate".It is supposed to be a more finer pitch than other arms,so what?They are all(other arms as well)capable of this level of adjustability.At least those I've seen.Gives new meaning to the term "Let your fingers do the walking"!!Who even thinks about stuff like "thread pitch" when you can still get the desired result?
By the way,I ALWAYS close my eyes(AT TIMES) whether listening "LIVE" or to my own set-up.I'll bet Raul has too!!!
Please take ANY comments that may seem confrontational as "SIMPLY" comments I'd make to a "Friend" during a listening session!!BOY,you would not believe some of the "REALLY HEATED"audio debates that constantly break out in my listening group,and not from me.I'm too busy ducking.I LOVE it,though!!! |
Thanks for the comments,so far.As for me,I'm "FAR" from a genious,and think that for the 3200 clams that this arm commands,and for the fact that this arm has been featured in the "Analog Corner" column for over 4 years(by a reviewer that passes himself off as an expert of experts)we "the consumer" deserve alot more.I "DO NOT BELIEVE"that I am the discoverer of some secret here.There are "PLENTY" of hard core critical listeners out there.I've met a ton.I'm sure that there are those that have figured this all out.Don't give the press such a free pass here(not that we can really do anything about it,though).
I guess many of you just don't remember the days when magazine like "TAS" REALLY were "TAS LIKE".This would have been covered there.There is NO excuse to accept the fact that there is a point of "Mere Acceptability" with regards to getting the best possible sound from something costing so much!There is a HUGE difference in performance from this arm,between just OK and SPOT ON.
This takes me back to my original comments that unless "WE" as hobbyists start to hear some other "HOBBYIST OWNED" set-ups that are truly fine tuned and "RIGHT"(NO bright or overdamped rooms,or rationalizing of weaknesses,which we ALL do)we will "NEVER" know if our own set-ups are "IN the Zone",for lack of any useful comparison(not "live" music,since it cannot be reproduced effectively)."Eyes OPENED OR CLOSED"!!!
If I had not been privy to my (FANATICAL) friend's system,I would,to this day,be as happy as a lark with my arm setup,thinking the slight grainyness(compared to the Air Tangent)was line noise,or Transistor noise,or tube noise,or my cartridge etc.You get my point.
To anyone less critical,I'm just a critical bloviator.To all else,we have a TON of money invested in our stuff,and deserve a little attention to detail!!YES,Salvatore is "MY HERO"!!The poor guy!!!So alone,is he!!!
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I was just KIDDING around!!No need to go RAUL on me,Doug!!Also,you just blew the free LEON's pastries,so take that!!! |
Well,I've benefited from this original post,in that I've been shamed into learning how to use this damn keyboard,thanks METRALLA.
I've also learned cool stuff like the meaning of ROTFLMAO!!
My discussions of the damping fluid tweaks were well worth it,and "PALE" in comparison!!
Larry,the only reason I equated you with Salvatore,was because your comments on the UNIV. were literally,word for word,identical with a letter sent to him, describing the cartridges attributes!!HMMM!!! |
Oh,yeah!!You put the fluid on the tip of the bearing,you have just taken off,that is now facing up.This is for fine tuning.Originally the fluid is squeezed into the bearing well at the pivot.Don't overfill this. |
For your edification,I simply wanted to be helpful,regarding the topic.I wrote this info out last night, and my daughter accidentally erased it.So,I spent a good time, in the A.M. re-writing it,as both my wife and daughter were,literally,dragging me off the computer,to go to brunch.I am no typist, and I did not have time to proof my copy,due to having my hair pulled!I do notice quite a few errors in my copy,but,it's just "tough luck"if you don't like it.What are you,my third grade teacher?The info I listed took me about an hour to keyboard in,and,can be fully understood.More importantly,it is ACCURATE!I really do have to learn to create paragraphs etc;but, I suggest, for those that are bothered,don't read my posts!Sorry for being so defensive here.I knew that if I responded to this particular subject,it would take me a really long time.I even debated whether to respond,due to the length necessary to cover it.It would have been longer,with more annoying grammatical errors,if it was not for the fact that my family wanted sustenance.For those that can get something out of it,I'm REALLY happy.For everyone else,sorry to inconvenience you!By the way,Metralla,I assume the "OLD", Super Small format of the early Absolute Sound would have bothered you too. |
I hope you are kidding!I use a series of records with complex,and difficult to track material.I also use some discs that have a variety of different instruments,showing off their timbres and harmonics.The most difficult thing to get right is CORRECT timbres and harmonics.That is when you know the arm is "RIGHT".Forget about setting up for percussion,as it can fool you into thinking you have it.
Once you have spent a few listening sessions, and are happy with the results,there is no need to "FOTZ" around anymore.Of course unless your audio pals are like mine.Never happy!!
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That is rediculous!Once you have the setting maxed out,and can track complex and difficult passages,anything else should be cake!Remember,what you are looking for is MAXIMUM retrieval of timbre,and harmonics.These fall into place when all else is obtained.At that point tracking is precise,and superb.You should,also have total consistency from one type of music to the next.Unless you want to get a bit NUTS with making changes for different discs.I don't.I mean I want to spend my time listening to music,not errors in set-up.
I think some of you are "Thinking This to Death" a bit.
Just try playing around for a few listening sessions.Then report back.Or better yet,forget about this thread and enjoy your music!!I know I will when my table comes back. |
Larry. I currently reside in NJ.My parents,in-laws,and a multitude of cousins all reside in "DOLPHINS" Country.I plan to move to the Southern FLA. region some time in the next 2 to 3 years,at the latest.I'll always be a JET fan though!!
Also.I realize I've done way too much "Bloviating" and bashing of some "Connected" and/or industry types.I really got too carried away with this.I have a big mouth,and should have shut up!!I'm really sorry!!Someone on another post,very politely mentioned that I seemed to be harboring a hidden agenda.Looking at that thought,I have to agree and feel like a "YUTZ"!!Who the heck am I anyway?Maybe I'm suffering from analog withdrawal!!
Larry,My pal (AIR TANGENT) just had his second Titan cartridge failure in one year.He's pretty bummed out and told me this eve. that he is going to start considering alternatives.He has good experienced friends to aid him here.I did,however,give him a big pitch on the ZYX-Univ. that you are raving about.
What he asked me was, what were the previous cartridges you have owned.I had sent him copies of the Arthur Salvatore comments,and this peaked his interest,however he is a VERY sceptical person.Especially when it comes to new "RAVE" products.I did my best to peak his interest,but he has his own methodology that I don't dare to mess with.
Please do not have anyone try to send any e-mails or any sales pitches.I know you love the UNIV. and I totally believe what you hear,as you describe it.This is just the way it has to be, for me to simply give to him another "VALID" alternative to those cartridges that are considered "REAL FRONTRUNNERS".He has lots of friends with alot of experience in vinyl,but,the ZYX stuff is new to us,and I'm giving the UNIV.a real pitch that has his interest somewhat peaked.
So,as I originally stated could you list those cartridges that preceeded it.Anyone else owning the ZYX stuff,please list previous cartridges if you care to.Thank you all very much!! |
Jeff,The wobbly aspect is supposed to be there.To me,that is one reason unipivots are SO GOOD.Think "car suspension" here,with the pivotal nature(WOBBLE) coping with micro bumps and depressions in the groove,some dirt as well.Although there may be some responses to the contrary,and I can't proove anything,the opposite effect of the unipivot would sort of act like a plow through the groove.They work fine,but the unipivot design is a "KILLER".So don't worry!
Sounds like the damping fluid was too low,originally,and may have contributed to the distortion you heard.As I, and others, have stated previously,the stuff can make or break the ultimate performance of the arm. Also,make sure your anti-skate is where it should be.Check Graham instructions.Also,even though it's a pain in the tush,read all previous posts.If you want to grow in this hobby,then you can never get too much information.You can,also call Bob Graham.I have,in the past,with questions.He is a nice guy.
Although having a captive audience is nice,truthfully, I'm played out on this topic, of the tweaking of the arm.There are some very nice people that have responded to this thread,and you can find valuable info with many of them.Many seem to be far more experienced and capable than me.I've been at this hobby for 35 years or so,but,am constantly learning things.Don't be coy about trying something for yourself.
Anyway the 2.2 is a great product and should last a lifetime.I don't see any other arms,other than the very pricey and ergonomically difficult air bearing designs outperforming it to a great degree.If I ever get rid of mine that is the only direction I'd move in!
Good Luck!!
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I would like to ask all those, who found this thread interesting, to "POST" comments regarding your feelings as to why the mainstream audio press had dropped the ball covering this topic.Afterall,this is a very popular arm,and has been covered extensively!!It has,also been around a long time.It took me almost 3 years to finally "give in" and really commit to fotzing around.Something that took way to much time to figure out,and I'm a dummy!
Maybe someone in the right place could catch wind of this and "WAKE UP" to the fact that there is more to QUALITY music reproduction than an endless parade of "Recommended Components" or covering the latest 5.1 "CHACHKA"!! |
I want to personally invite all of "YOU GUYS" to my daughter's wedding.In a couple of years.I promise I won't forget.Just as HP of TAS promised,3 yrs ago,that he would "NOT" let the magazine slide!!What a laugh.I can't help but think of him coming down his stairs,at the behest of his latest set-up man(paid schleper),with pipe in hand,only to listen to the component,or musical selection at hand and,quickly,giving the Roger Ebert thumbs up or down.Then retiring back to his video rig.That's it!!
I was smuggled into Sea cliff,by a former friend(old critic)some years back.Time of fire.Sonically,once I got over being on HOLY ground,similar to the sound I had heard that month,while viewing the HAGLER/Sugar Ray Leonard fight at an area disco.I swear!!Like I said,we're "all" just hobbyists!!HP was away at time.The former critic obviously was NOT a good friend of HP,or mine,but wanted a business favor from me.Heck,I wasn't about to turn down that invite!!
Doug,I'm really sorry to say that at the time being my friend has decided not to take you up on that offer.SHUCKS!!It has more to do with his present state of trying to secure a replacement TITAN.Also,I think he feels he would not be able to swing the 5 LARGE,should he like it.
Probably a good defense mechanism,though.He did ask me to "truly" thank you for the offer.He also said he may take you up on it someday,should his current situation deteriorate,regarding a n/c replacement.Since you were so open about bringing this over, to a total stranger's house,I think,even if he doesn't try a UNIV. you may be welcome to come over for a listening session.We can then "MUG" you in BKLYN!!PS---You will still get the "LEON's pastry!! |
Metralla,sorry for being so obnoxious,in my response.I am a "one finger at a time typist",though getting better.I will try to learn a bit more as you seem sincere.Originally,I thought you were putting me on.The thing is that I got so excited about sharing this info I just started to fly on the keyboard(slowly)without thinking.Also,to be criticized,after putting in such an effort,with the nagging of my family to "get off the computer,and take us out to eat"really rubbed me the wrong way!But,that's the past!..........As for any ego, for readership,though the responses are a true compliment,and,I appreciate them,I was only concerned with the RESULT,of other hobbyists gaining REAL pleasure,from what took me eons to learn............Bfuerher,I have a dear friend that has an,almost,exact system as mine.We do our tweaking together,for comparative results.The "Blue" fluid IS DEFINITELY superior.No contest,actually.Also,for those with a 2.0,the upgrade to the 2.2(which I did)is FAR superior to the 2.0.Also,very easy to do,and not expensive..........I suspect(just my opinion here)the Phantom is not as critical to fluid level,since the literature claims that the magnet assembly aids "damping".I don't like this,as I feel the tuneability of the 2.2(once understood)is a REAL ADVANTAGE.Also,as I understand it, the Phantom is a MUCH more massive design.Since I have a cartridge weighing only 7gms.I like the idea of putting less mass(arm/cart.)over the groove.The benefit of this is mentioned on,both,the Van den hul,and, Air Tangent web-sites.Though,for heavier cartridges,the Phantom is probably the way to go(lets see some"REAL" reviews).Enough with the endless quantities of pages,every issue, of recommended components.This takes copy away from "real" issues.I'm not holding my breath!!Anyway,the 2.2 is a rediculously good arm.Why do you think Graham kept it in production? |
I hated the 3 Jet games that I took my son to last year.Fans urinating in the garbage cans of the men's room.Fans "CONSTANTLY" getting up,in the middle of the action,for beer.I now stay home in my warm PJ's instead of freezing my ass off.I love the team,but was not wild about the fans either.
I did not take DOUG's comments as argumentative.He seems to be quite knowledgeable and was voicing an opinion.He also seems to be quite an engaging fellow,with a sense of humor.
Raul,also voices his opinions,and has knowledge of much in this hobby,as well.I could never understand why some are so mean spirited towards him.So what if someone doesn't agree with a comment!I don't agree with everything I read here,but everyone has their own perspective.In the case of Raul,I get the impression that he really LOVES to stay on top of these threads and gets into trouble sometimes because of innocent enthusiasm.
I have a problem keeping my own inner feelings to myself,regarding the "MANY" ego driven,selfish,full of "CRAP" types that I have met over the years.The problem belongs to me only,and I should,will, just "SHUT UP" from now on.I am nobody to judge anyone's motives,as long as they don't intrude upon me!! |
Larry,I'm "SOLD"!!Better pray that this is all confirmed when this "Breakthrough" design,as you infer,starts to get some serious exposure ,other than via the internet.PS-I assume it was you,whom Salvatore was referring to.
I have taken your word on this,as you seem experienced,and sincere, and recommended the lesser models to one friend.He will probably get a zyx 2 or 3.
My "YODA" pal is in BIG TIME with some of the "HOITY TOITY" crowd,who are sceptical about the UNIV. as being the second coming.With these guys,they usually like to knock something they haven't discovered themselves.Especially since this line is controlled by one guy,well intentioned or not.I will get "KILLED" by these guys,if your comments don't pan out in time,as I've done somethimg I've learned not to do.I've created "BUZZ" by someone's(YOURS IN THIS CASE)comments to me.So I may have to move down to FLA. a little earlier than planned if the UNIV. is not the "MEGA" design you and others claim it to be!!
That being said,I do have very good credibility with him,as I have helped him out,in the past,with his own system issues.I'll keep pitching the Univ. if only,at least,for him to take a good look at, before making any final decisions.Although with the limited exposure here,I can't see how this could be done.
The previous offers of other hobbyists allowing an audition are incredibly nice,but unless heard in our own set-ups can't tell much!!
Thanks!!
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What does ROTFLMAO stand for?
As for the HOLY ground,that was then.I'm sure today would be a different story.The only "POSITIVE" thing that came out of it,for me,was the fact that I started to believe that I could come up with good sound,on my own,and that all the "HOITY TOITY" dudes just got there first!!
Any "HOITY TOITY's" following any of this?
Are any of you "HOITY TOITY" enough to remember your commitment to your readers?We actually DO spend money on subscription renewals.Although I'm considering letting mine run out,and reading the latest DRECK for free,at Barnes & Noble,as I have a latte!!I'd rather re-subscribe,but you don't deserve my loyalty.Who am I kidding I'm so conditioned already!
Too bad a guy like,Larry's pal,Arthur Salvatore doesn't publish a newsletter that I can sit and read in my car,during lunch breaks!!I love the guy.What BALLS!!To be hated and loved at the same time.Sounds like my system.Too bad Arthur was actually wrong about the later Dutch pressing of Prince of the Pagoda's being superior to the earlier English one.I have both!!Not close! The 2 Dutch pressings I own don't touch the 1st pressing British.I think Arthur really has to upgrade to that UNIV. REAL soon!!!Hey,at least he's human.
Anyone not following my blather,please refer to HIGHEND AUDIO.com.Hope you all get as much out of that site as I did.As a matter of fact,I printed copies out for all my friends!!All 3 of them. |
