Grace Level ll

I remember when interconnects made from LC-OFC copper were a marketing tool.  I think Hitachi was one of the first companies to brag about it. Then many users (including me) found out it was no big deal in terms of any enhancement of sound quality.  Further, there is no evidence that a coil made of LC-OFC would operate any differently from a coil made of any other good quality copper; even its adherents recommend it for ICs and the like.

The notion that "gold and silver, being precious metals, generally are far too expensive for electronic use" surely must seem specious even to you, Chak.  We have gold this and silver that all over the place in audio.  Also, gold ranks well behind copper and silver in conductivity (with silver being slightly better than copper and both being way better than gold), not the other way around. The chief virtue of gold is its stability; it tends not to oxidize, which is a problem with silver and copper, although silver oxide is still an excellent conductor whereas copper oxide is not. Thus gold is often used as a plating over copper to prevent oxidation. 

And finally, you say above that F8 and F9 series were not made with exotic cantilever materials, among which you list sapphire.  But we do have the F9 Ruby since the 70s; as you know, sapphire and ruby are synonymous terms, maybe not for a jeweler but for cartridge manufacturers.  I would submit that an F9 Ruby re-tipped by Soundsmith with their OCL stylus ought to have many of the same virtues as the Level II and F14 models, albeit not the rarity.  I am happy for you that you own and enjoy so many unobtainium cartridges, but let's keep this in perspective.

@lewm
I’ve come across the article from 1985, the LC-OFC invented in 1975, then Grace went out of business by the late 80’s, but Audio-Technica is still in business and none of their top models have coil wire lower than OCC grade today, which is better than earlier OFC and LC-OFC. As you can see it’s important for modern cartridge manufacturer, but maybe not important for you?

In 1985, Professor Ohno, from the Chiba Institute of Technology invented Ohno Continuous Casting copper (OCC copper) and this is Audio-Technica standard since that day!

Here is a fresh article if you want to read.

The different conductor types typically used in audio applications. Oxygen free copper was developed in Japan around 1975 as it became increasingly apparent that sound quality was related to the quality of copper and the processing used during cable manufacture. Also around 1975, Hitachi developed their own method for reducing grain or crystal boundaries. Linear Crystal-Oxygen Free Copper (LC-OFC) is Hitachi’s patented process and their exclusive product. After extrusion, the copper wire is re-heated, or annealed, which reduces impurities between the crystal boundaries as the copper crystal grows and leads to a longer grain length. A typical crystal (or grain) in a 1mm diameter LC-OFC conductor is 130 mm long compared to only 4mm (typically) long in TPC or OFC conductors.

Phono cartridge coil wire material is extremely important for the sound quality, always look for LC-OFC or OCC if you want the best!

I am not a fan of Silver Coil wire, but it does make a huge different compared to Copper Coil.

Personally i have compared not only MM with different coil wire, but also LOMC like various Ortofon SPU and the best sounding one was the SPU Spirit with extremely rare 8N Copper Wire.

It’s funny to read a comment that coil wire is not so important from people who’s buying short headshell lead wires just because they are silver, or rewire every tonearm like our Mexican friend.

F-9 Ruby is nothing special, just an overpriced old cartridge with elliptical profile. When i am talking about exotic cantilevers they are paired with exotic diamonds too (not elliptical) when we’re talking about Grace LEVEL II or F12 or F14 models.

I don’t care about refurbished cartridges, they have no value for me.
My passion is original design only.

For those who prefer SoundSmith cantilevers and diamonds for the Grace MM i would recommend to use them with Grace LC-OFC generators for the best result, those generators made only for F14 and LEVEL II (not for the F9). So the F9 is nowhere near the LC-OFC F14 or LEVEL II.

For the owners of the original Grace:
Once you upgrade to the F14 or LEVEL II you don’t want to go back to the F9, believe me. It’s natural progress, they did not just changed the numbers on their cartridgeы with no reason, they are entirely different cartridges with different LC-OFC coils, best cantilevers (Beryllium, Boron, Sapphire and even ceramic) and best diamonds (MicroRidge etc).

Oh, please..."Oxygen-free copper" was and is a marketing tool.  And the Hitachi wire is at best nothing special, if not even inferior to some other choices, like pure silver, in my opinion of course.  Note that Hitachi is no longer in the high end audio business; they didn't exactly take over the world with their copper.Like I said before, I have no doubt that your Grace F14 and Level II cartridges sound wonderful.  Congratulations.  But you don't know exactly why, and neither do I.  Just enjoy them. Correlation is not causation.

Chak.

While you have a decent amount of cartridge knowledge it would not hurt to try a bit of diplomacy and humility in your postings.
Derogatory comments like F9 Ruby is just an overpriced old cartridge could be quite offensive to owners of said cartridge.

Just one example.

Maybe tone down on the absolute statements a little.

Just my 3 cents.....

@uberwaltz

Derogatory comments like F9 Ruby is just an overpriced old cartridge could be quite offensive to owners of said cartridge.

Maybe, but let’s face it, this is the most expensive F9 and it ain’t cheap anymore like it was 10 years ago. Still nothing special because the tip is elliptical while the cheaper Grace F-9F and F-9U comes with LineContact and Shibata Type diamonds and those diamonds are normally more expensive, but Ruby looks cooler and always cost more money for some reason (sometimes more than original grace with Beryllium cantilevers ). Only facts, nothing else, you like it or not.

Each time i ask for F14 and LEVEL II people comment about F9 Ruby, seems strange to me since the thread is about LEVEL II (the last Grace series from the 80’s, not old series from the 70’s). I believe Grace made some improvement in 10 years of manufacturing.

"Oxygen-free copper" was and is a marketing tool. And the Hitachi wire is at best nothing special, if not even inferior to some other choices, like pure silver, in my opinion of course. Note that Hitachi is no longer in the high end audio business; they didn’t exactly take over the world with their copper.

@lewm What is a marketing tool is $12k price for modern Coreless straight-flux cartridges Red Wing designed by ex Grace engineer. I forgot about Hitachi brand, still have some cassette tapes from them, but for me it was interesting to discover that they are invented LC-OFC wire back in the day. Innovative comes from Japan and Japanese manufacturers immediately start using them in the 70's.

As for the silver coil and silver wire i have never ever rated them over some nice copper coil and copper wires in my system. My favorite wires are all Oxygen-free copper (modern, not old) from high-end manufacturers like Chris Commovigo (the man behind Stereovox, Stereolab, Black Cat) or Zu Audio with their excellent copper phono cables. I really don’t understand all the hype about silver wires, sorry.