You should study the in-room frequency response charts of various Legacy models. While nobody can deny that some folks like them, there's plenty of evidence to support the fact that they are anything BUT "accurate" or "transparent". If you were able to get rid of the +6 to +8 dB bass hump that they exhibit at appr 100 - 120 Hz, i think that you'll find that they sound a helluva lot better. Stuffing your ports may help somewhat but it's not a cure-all. Sean
Sean, Nonoise, I wonder, again, (and I've said it, as well) what an audiophool means by "accurate" or "ruthlessly accurate?" Is that a subjective call? Obviously you guys are on not on the same page, as far as "accuracy" goes. I belive Sean has quite a bit of listening experience with these speakers? Is there a listening bench mark to accuracy? I've heard speakers that audiophools have raved about. I mean, went gaga over, and they didn't do it for me on many of the levels they raved about, including accuracy. I believe my ears and trust them. Could they be wrong? And then, does that matter if I'm grooving to my system? Lots of questions, I realize. Just someplace to take this thread that may help me with/understand my "accuracy" rap. thanks in advance..peace, warren
What exactly was "the question"?
Oz, I figured it out. Nonoise thinks this forum works like AA. He types responses in the subject line and starts a new subject. Look at his other threads. A pattern emerges.
LOL Nighthawk...you noticed too...hahaha.
First, Ozzy's question: I'm new at this and started my own thread in reponse to one by Ryllau-Speakers ot hang on to for life-my bad
Second, Sean: Most measurement's that I'm familiar with are taken on axis, off axis, etc. and about 1 metre from the speaker. When 'in room' measurements are taken it all boils down to which room? Is it representative of 'my room'? Your advise for stuffing is a well known, time honored treatment for those 'humps' that you allude to but they are NOT present in all rooms in the same way. You can pay several times the cost ot the Legacys and get just as horrible 'in room' results compare to the published frequency responses that most makers get. Some of your better designers use an anechoic chamber to tune their speakers: no room boundaries as all rooms are different. Also, if memory serves me correctly, don't all speakers exhibt that same 'bass hump' when placed in a room where the dimensions are/can be multiples of each other, or something like that? And if so, aren't those types of rooms to be avoided and/or modified as the standing wavelengths are exacerbated?
Sean: Its all subjective. I always trust my ears. I've heard bad sound that took a lot of salesmenship to convince people that they are hearing what isn't there. I've seen firsthand people conned into high priced sales. I've even listened to people trying to convince me that cables, speakers and the like are to be bought and then changed according to how you want it to sound! These apples aren't even from the same tree I live in. As for 'ruthleslly accurate', I'm just touting the ability of my speakers to seemingly have no coloration or signature of their own. Any changes I make upstream are instantly noticed. A bad recording still sounds bad (pop music recorded to RIAA standards), good recordings sound good, and great recordings sound great. I couldn't ask for more.
Ok guys, play nice. This is supposed to be about sharing the joy of audio. Not demonstrating who has a physics degree in wave dynamics.
Amen. Its all about the joys of listening and relating.
I was simply responding to subjective statements that i disagree with. Not only does my personal opinion and experience differ with that of Nonoise, but i can also provide empirical evidence to support my statements. Both sources of evidence were provided by industry professionals that get paid to test and measure audio related equipment for a living. They not only provide the results obtained, they explain how the tests were taken. Most larger Legacy's do not measure very well and their lack of sonic accuracy is quite evident / supportive of the measurements that i've seen. Buy them if you like them, but don't try to convince anyone that they are linear or "accurate". Sean
Obviously, one cannot depend (unless they are familiar with the said audiophool's listening referrent) on just that one listening experience. This is not the first time I've heard this (inaccuracy) about Legacy. I suppose the power and "accuracy" of subjective opinion lays with the quantity of similiar, subjective listening experiences. If I heard the Legacy and came off with the same experiences as Noniose, I'd start to feel a little insecure, after reading countless experiences like Seans. I tend to feel, that the cream comes to the top, and down the long audio highway, the strength/sound etc. of an audio component becomes self evident. I hope this makes some sense. peace, warren
BTW Nonoise, that was a mini review, not a question, correct?
Warren: You are correct sir! You should be an arbitrator. As for the rest of the crowd: don't be hatin' man! Not everyone can afford the cost into High End and the Legacys take you to the door. Sure, they're not perfect but the 40+ reviews at audioreview.com can't be ALL wrong. Everyone from Joe Average to musicians and engineers love them; even the critical ones give high marks. As for measured reviews, if one were to rely on those alone, there wouldn't be alot of tube sales, would there? They measure poorly but seduce nontheless. I started this thread by mistake hoping to help out some guy who was deciding on Legacys (full range) and B&Ws (monitor). Just from that it seemed to me that he wanted a full range speaker but the price of the B&W was just too dear (surprise-the same thing happened to me). I, too, have heard of inaccuracies in Legacys and seen people grudgingly damn them with faint praise at audio shows saying something else was wrong once they heard them but they couldn't say just what it was. Maybe not as exclusive as others. Who knows? The B&W didn't get great reviews in The Sensible Sound and Peter at The Audio Critic wasn't impressed either. Somewhere in between the glossy rags of Stereophile and Absolute Sound at one end and The Audio Critic at the other, lies this sensible solution: trust your ears. As for me, I have to get some sleep and decide if I want to get that darling TAD-cayin TA-30 or the TAD-150 and keep my SS amp. If anyone has some good ruminations on the subject, fire away!
Given that the Sensible Sound has raved about Legacy's for 20 years, it is no surprise that they didn't really like B&W's. If one has a preference for speakers with heavy bass output and a shrill and peaky treble response, using a speaker that is slightly lean to neutral in the bass region with a reasonably smooth treble response will obviously not be to their liking. As i've mentioned in other threads, the Signature III doesn't have the "over the top" brightness that other Legacy designs do, but it does suffer from bloated low end response. Sean