I use the Onkyo PR-SC5509 ( same as Integra 80.3) with Audessey pro ( we sell this) with Pass labs X250.5 ( other channels Primare Poweramp) and the results are stunning. It is extreemly holographic. I owned the Meridian 800DAXV4 and sold Meridian as well. The problem is that old technique is bettered by new technique. Meridian can play 3d, but it is not his strongest property. Integra has depth like the better highend has. Marantz, Denon, NAD, Cambridge are all 2 dimensional products. This means that there is almost no depth image. 2 dimensional audio I call STANDARD AUDIO. Integra uses new 32 bit burr brown dacs. And the video section is 12 bit and very nice. I would never go for old technique. Surround without professional roomcorrection is always asking for problems and acoustic flaws. With Audessey pro yo become a very balanced sound. A few years ago I owned the Pass XA100.5 and XP20. Now I have a better focussed image. in recordings voices are better separated than with the XP-20. I never heard surround this good. |
I tested many hdmi cables with eachother. Audioquest Diamond is by far the best I ever heard. With a source in stereo it is even stunning. These days high quality cables are more important than ever. Depth will increase a lot wenn you use a processor what can give this like the Integra does. Difference between Audessey XT32 and Audessey Pro is huge. Dynamics are superior, focus is a lot sharper. I play 4 metres behind the speakers, more than 1 metre beside the speakers. And many recordings some instruments play even in front of the speaker. Audessey pro gives you also the tightest and best ballanced sound for your subwoofer. Without you never get this level. These days you even can use a very fast subwoofer to 120hz. This makes voices and instruments better focussed, even in stereo. |
I am a Audyssey Pro instaler. Audyssey Pro is superior to XT32. It is another world. Audyssey also works for the most part in the low freq. But it is a lot more than only ajusting the room acoustic. It improves the focus, dynamics and the sound as well. With Audyssey Pro I can adjust the stage as well. We develop our own way of doing measurements. This way is even superior to the way Audyssey discirbes. It is much more dynamic than XT32. There is so much more authority. Resolution is a lot higher compared to XT32. I got the best integration wiht my subwoofer and speakers. Which I set to 120 hz. It is even better than room acoustic systems sub brands own. Like Velodyne. The control is very good, but the integration is not of the level I would want. With Audyssey Pro you get fully 'stealth'integrartion. With the Velodyne own roomacoustic system it is not stealth. Because instruments and voices are much better focussed wenn you use Audyssey Pro compared to there own system. |
I drink seldom alcohol by the way. Here the differences between Pro and XT32
- sound of Pro is a lot more natural
- low freq are more tight, go deeper and are more defined.
- instruments and voices are better focussed and more 3d.
- there is more depth, you can hear more decay of recordings.
- they way we measure we can make the stage wider and deeper. There are recordings were I did hear new instruments. because I made the stage wider. I even did not hear these instruments with my Pass Labs XP-20. |
We did a Pro measurement last Thursday. Before the measurement we listen to some cd's. After the measurement we listened to the same music again. Audyssey Volume and EQ do a lot in resolution. We measure at a different height and different place what Audyssey says. This is superior to the results Audyssey normally can get. We will never say how we measure. Onkyo wants to arrange a meeting for me witht the people of Audyssey. I never will share this, I am not stuppid! In a few weeks I wil give a presentation with XT32 and Audyssey Pro for Onkyo. The end results with pro is superior. Clients have such a big smile on there faces after the measurments. I did test a lot at many different ways of doing measurements. I am a perfectionist. Good it never good enough. I am only interested in the best. I want to invite Pass Labs to bring in a XP-20 ( which I owned for 2 years) and compare it with Onkyo PR-SC5509 with my pro measurement. I use a Pass Labs X250.5 ( this year I wil update to 600.5 or XA100.5 again) The results in stereo are better. Stage is wider and deeper compared to XP-20. individual focus is a lot better. 2nd and 3th voices are more clear compared to what I had with the XP-20. I have email contact about this with Pass labs. |
I did a test with 2 Velodyne DD18 with Revel speakers in stereo mode. The control in low freq are exeptional good. But it did not gave the stealth quality I want. I am affraid they are too slow. Maybe Audessey pro can solve this problem. Instruments and voices were not focussed in the right proportion. It was not simultaneously with the frontspeakers. My subwoofer with Audessey pro is superior in speed and fully one with the frontspeakers. |
It is just about what I can hear. Wenn voices and instruments are better focussed and more separated it is more easy to follow. Let's go back to the XP-20. What it does compared to less expensive pre-amps is making a bigger and wider stage. This let you hear better separation of instruments and voices. The biggest flaw I encounterd with Audyssey is the loss of dynamics. So I wanted to see how I can limited this flaw. Wenn you can measure more dynamics you will win in quality. Better sound, beter focus and better separation. This has nothing to do with the EQ and Volume of Audyssey. It is just about collecting more information. Like Audyssey pro gives you more information compared to XT32. You hear the improvement easilly. Maybe it is not perfect, nothing is perfect. Either are we! I spoke a few weeks ago with the people of Trinnov. On paper it goes further than Audyssey Pro. I need to hear it with good stuff before I know what it is capable of. I hope to hear it in Munic next month. |
'KR4'wenn you use two subwoofers with XT32/pro. Will in stereo mode the 2 subs be separated in right and left to support the right and left frontspeaker. Because Audessey did not anwswer this question yet. Because I was planning to use 2 Monitor Audio PLW-15 sub's for my Audessey pro demo soon for stereo mode. |
10 years ago I always had big 2-channel highend systems without a sub. We sold the more expensive Rel sub's. But for me they were too slow and I did not like the focus wenn it was used. XT-32 was the first system I found 2 channel with a sub good enough to use for myself. Before roomcorrection I was never interested in a sub for stereo use. I heard the best Velodyne sub's with roomacoustic sytems. I like the controle of the low freq. in the room. But.......integration witht the frontspeakers was still not exaptable. Now by using my Monitor Audio closed PLW-15 sub ( set to 120hz, it even can get to 160hz)and Audyssey Pro I have the stealth low freq I always dreamed for. By using it to 120hz, integration is superior. This sub is very quick in respons. You get low freq witch become touchable. Instruments and voices are better focussed and still have the right ( small) proportions. |
I am a person who is always looking for the best options. Wenn there is a new system and better system this will be the next brand to focus at. I am interested in excelent quality. Every tool ( cable, source, speaker etc) I use I want to be sure to use all it's properties/talents. That is why I do many different tests to see what will give the best results. The way Audyssey people measure I found to be ok, but not more. Then I want to get a higher result what normally is possible. |
Try Audessey Pro, you will be amazed how much better it is compared to XT32. I sld marantz for over 6 years. I like the brand, but it is still a 2-dimensional brand. Use speakers which can give a deep and wide stage. You will hear that there is not a lot of depth. Wenn you compare the Marantz 8801 witht the Onkyo PR-SC5509 there is a big difference in how the stage is build. Onkyo can make it wide and deep like the better highend can. With Marantz you never can achieve this. |
I know all the different Audyssey levels. But Audyssey Pro is the one which sets it to a level what impress many people. We use Onkyo for Surround. because brands like Marantz, Denon, Cambridge, Nad ( which I sold for a long period) are all 2 dimensional brands. I am not interested in 2-dimensional sound anymore. I call this standard audio. There are a few Onkyo surround amps and pre amps with XT-32 which can be used for Audessey Pro. There is no Onkyo amp with XT what can be used for Audessey Pro. We sell the Onkyo PR-SC5509 to people who use stereo and surround. Not only surround. Last week we were at an old farm. 8m high, 8m wide and about 8,5 m long. With a lot of glass. I thought it would be impossible to get a good result. We only tested with XT and the results were stunning. Speakers were more than 7.5m from eachtoher. The focus was extreemly sharp and instruments were focussed at the right dimensions. Even at high volums the sound was still very musical. In the past I had a few rooms like these as well. To be unnest the results were not so good in the past without roomacoustic systems. I had some clients in the past with room acoustic pannels. It cost them a lot of money. They still had a lot of acoustic problems. Audessey have a good back up and they are nice people. But they have not a lot knowledge about highend. And about dimensions of instruments and voices at recordings. They way they say you have to measure still has problem of loosing too much dynamics. This is why I did try many different ways of measuring. I wanted to get a better result, and at the end I found. The level we have found is very easy to sell. Quality sell it self. |
'Tcatman'good story, you understand it very well. Keep one thing in mind. Subwoofers which are sealed and have only the speakerunit at the front side will get the best results by far. The last few months many people were surprised by the stealth quality of my subwoofer with Audessey Pro. They aks me; can you arange it for me as well. Next few months I will do some audio presentations with Audessey pro. I also will talk about the difference between 2 and 3-dimensional sound. I have already professional camera for full hd recording for recording my presentations. So more people can see and hear were I am talking about. |
Audessey has different levels in room correction. You read the differences on there website. |
I think in tools. An amp, source, cable etc is for me a tool. I label all tools. This means I test them all and hear what there talents/properties are. Marantz in generall has there own properties which you hear in there products. Depth is a key factor in highend sound. That is why I always look for options for lower prices to get this feature for my clients. Marantz has not the quality to give a deep stage. That is why for me it is a 2-dimensional brand. It is that easy!! |
I was affraid for this. Thanks for the answer. |
