Genuine Telefunken?

After reading as much as possible on the net about " NOS " tubes, have narrowed it down to Telefunken 12AX7 and 12AU7 for my Jadis DPL preamp

This could be a disappointment if you do not audition other tubes. There's no way to know how the Tele might work with the Jadis unless you listen to its performance to others.

The Tele 12ax7 was outstanding in the Aesthetix Io phono stage but it just never cut it for me in the CAT and Manley products I owned; the result was rather dull. The Sylvania 5751 was a big improvement to the Tele 12ax7 in the CAT product. As for the Tele 12au7, it compared poorly to those from Mullard in the CAT. But there are so many other 12au7 tube types out there that to focus solely on the Tele could limit your preamp's performance.

I enjoyed the Tele 6DJ8/6922 in the Aesthetix and CAT products, but after playing with Amperex tubes the last year or so, particularly the 6922 and 12au7 families, I am less and less impressed with the Tele tubes. They are good but way overrated after hearing the Amperex.

Sirspeedy - YES. The Amperex 6922 PQ PW's. This is my reference 6922 tube. It's a killer in the CAT and excellent in the Aria preamp. But it was soon displaced in the Aria by its cousin, the Amperex 7062 PQ PW. The 7062 is a 12v based tube so it is not directly replaceable from the 6922 ...... except in the Aria with a flip of an internal switch. 8-) The 6922 PW is very smooth with great dimensionality. But the 7062 PW beats the 6922 PW at its own game and quite handily...and with greater dynamic contrasts. The Amperex tubes are special.

Sirspeedy - I was hoping to cost you some money last time with a new Hyperphono cable. 8-)~ A pair of PW's is small fry to that. As for CCAs, I have a pair of Valvo PW CCAs. I did not compare these to the Amperex 6922 PW in the Aria line stage as the 7062 here made this a moot point. And the CCAs I have are too noisy for the Aria phono stage so they landed in the CAT amps where they are very nice. I guess I could compare the Amperex to the CCAs in the amps. If I get motivated to do try this, I'll let you know. But I got a special D-getter pair of 7062's today from a friend so I'm a happy camper to play.

No matter what the "known,believed" excellence of anything audio is... You can be relied upon to basically come up with a new,not usually known/considered take on the subject!

Wow, thank you.....I think! 8-) I've tried to behave myself since my "contributions" to the Gabriel Gold thread last year.

I notice that my system-implementation priorities are much different than many people here. I read the reported major improvements of moving a VTA adjustment 1 mm or 2 and suddenly hearing images lock in. But I notice that many such systems use stock power cords, have little attention to power distribution, use stock tubes, have severely compromised ICs and tonearm cables, etc., and I shake my head. In my system I can move the Graham 2.2 VTA dial quite a bit and not observe anything like what I read about here. But I can change the IC from the line stage to the amp and hear changes that far exceed the claims of VTA adjustments. And thus I have focused much attention to this system link.

And look at the discussion concerning the RIAA accuracy to 0.1db. But if I can not be convinced that there is a piano before me with its incredible fundamental tone and follow-on harmonic structure and decay, the whole technical discussion of RIAA accuracy to this level is irrelevant. No matter how accurate the tonality might be, without the dimensionality being convincing, the game is over for me.

Last night the differences between two 7062 D-getter tubes in the Aria line stage were HUGE. I was going back and forth between the Graham2.2/ClearaudioAccurate and Zeta/KoetsuRWS because I could not decide which one was more fun to compare these two tube pairs. One pair was so much more holographic and dynamic and the other mellow and smooth. But both pairs put the piano in the room. With any number of other tubes on hand, this one key performance parameter would nose dive in an instant even though the tonality is much the same amongst all these tubes.

I have observed such tube differences since I got the tube-rolling bug with the Aesthetix 5 years ago. That's why I wanted to suggest to Noguerol not to commit exclusively to Tele or any other tube brand.

Trying different tubes can result in a discovery that can take one's system to a level that even a preamp upgrade can not achieve. Look at those who upgrade their preamp loaded with Sovtek tubes for another preamp loaded with Sovtek tubes. Gosh, it makes no sense as they never had a chance to hear the potential of what they had before.

Yes Hyperphono-less man (lol), I knew that. 8-)~

Sirspeedy....I think you're in need of a vacation to Minnesota! I need help with my VTA. <8)~

Sirspeedy...Thank you for the light kicks your sending my way. And yes, I am a sly Fox. 8-) But in all honesty, a year or so ago I played with the VTA on the Graham and on the Zeta (Pete Riggle device) and I did not hear the magnitudes of differences as reported by others. Had I listened harder and spent more time I likely would have heard greater differences. But I was overwhelmed with the major gains elsewhere (tube-rolling and cable changes). I had no patience for subtleties at that time. And keep in mind, "subtleties" are relative. When you hear the effects that tubes and cables can make like they do here, this is MAJOR vs. VTA.

I have since re-cabled the system, changed to the RLS Haley, found an outstanding triplet of small-signal tubes for the JL-3s, and now the stunning Aria WV. I have detail unlike ever before and the 3D magic remains. And so a re-visit to the VTA scene is warranted.

I checked the damping fluid in the 2.2 and it is 3/8" down from the top of the reservoir when the cap is removed. Is this too much or too little? But with the hyper-detail now due to the Aria, I am spending more time with the Koetsu RWS and that's on the Zeta and Hyperphono cable.

So today I just grabbed an LP off the Shelf. One of the later Heart releases. With the Koetsu body parallel to the LP as I have always set it, I listened to a track a few times. Then I adjusted the Zeta VTA to put the back of the cartridge tilted down, not drastically, but very noticeable when viewing this. The dynamics and dimensionality of the singer's voice changed little for me to hear any difference. But the tonality was significant. There was now a definite brightness and fatigue to her voice. I went back to the parallel position and much much more natural. I then went the other way, cartridge front titled down with 4-5 turns and now the top-end has much reduced life. At least the result was consistent! Does this match your past observations? So this one quick test brings an immediate conclusion to me: VTA (on the Koetsus RWS anyway) greatly affects the resultant energy in the upper octaves, and thus affects treble tonality and perceived treble detail, but the other sonic parameters were pretty much unaffected. I now hear how dialing this in can help to find a good balance between smoothness and treble detail/energy, almost like a tone control! So thanks for nudging me to play again. However, I will resist to become one of those obsessed with 1/16 turns on the dial for each LP.....just not gonna happen!

With the cartridge parallel to the LP again, I swapped one 7062 for another (smooth plate vs PW) in the Aria line stage. Tonality nearly identical but now a reduction in dynamic contrasts but more presence of reflections, almost like echo of the singer's voice off the wall behind the speakers. And then a change to the Aria's 6v setting and Valvo ECC88 PWs. Wow, those 6922 family tubes just don't do it vs. the 7062. Such a big drop in air and harmonic overtones.

So clearly the tube changes are affecting the sound in ways the VTA clearly does not with the Koetsu anyway. I understand that dialing all these in is critical. And coincidentally, I had the Koetsu at a great position all along with it parallel to the LP. I'll see what I can do with slight tweaks from this position and then leave it there.

As for working with Steve of GNSC, this gets my highest recommendation. The result is outstanding for someone who has a great performing product and wants to take it to the next level without going crazy with the cost. And yes, Steve helped to get the Io's noise level way down by tracking down and replacing one noisy socket. And I found another quiet pair of tubes for the other channel's input. Before that, I never heard the Io's noise level so low. When things slow down here. I'll get back to GNSC so Steve can see and hear the Aria. I bet it will be incredible in his BAT/Avalon room. Gosh that sounds so wonderful. So let me know how it works when you get your components back from GNSC.

John