Garage Listing room


Conciderations pn a garage Listing room.

18 wide  24 ft long 8 ft high ceiling.

Open suds completley insualated with paper faces. Stucco on other side of walls. garage door is solid type with insualtion.

Ceiling is flat open studs 100% filled insualtion

would this serve as a listing room.

Von schweikert vr4/5 Biamps all tubes (might not fill room) Have new vr-8's (that will)

Ff98f0b4 1437 4024 92f4 edb3f3736e16hiend2

It would work if you put something on the walls over the insulation, like drywall or plywood. It will sound dead with just the insulation.

Mine is 17x24x9. Yours will be fine. Use 5/8" sheetrock, it blocks like twice the sound of 1/2" for almost no additional cost. There's endless things you can do, the trick is to figure out which ones like the sheetrock trick cost next to nothing but deliver results big time. Usually only people who have actually been through this proces know these things. So be careful, because a lot don't, but act like they do.

Since your walls aren't yet finished, there are a few things that are relatively easy to do right now while the framing is exposed. There are various construction techniques and materials that will help reduce sound transmission, both outside noise getting in and inside noise getting out. Which ones will work for you depends a lot on how things are laid out and where the noise is coming from/going to. The garage door I would think will be a major one. You will have to decide either replace it with a wall or seriously modify it to be more like a wall.

 

Also be sure to run your one dedicated line now before sheetrock. One line direct to wherever your system will be, another circuit for all other outlets and lights. 

 

There's a lot of options. Some like 5/8" sheetrock and single dedicated line cost next to nothing but deliver big time. Others, well you can spend thousands and not hear more improvement from a $200 fuse. So don't sweat the room. 

Without modification it's probably going to be a fairly dead sounding space due to all the exposed insulation. Are you willing to do modifications or would you need to use the space as-is? 

Use 5/8" sheetrock, it blocks like twice the sound of 1/2" for almost no additional cost.

That just isn’t true, sorry.

An STC (sound transmission) rating for a ’standard’ wall with 1/2" drywall on both sides is about a 33 STC rating, an insulated wall with *two layers* of 1/2" drywall *on both sides* is about 44, a wall with 5/8" on one side and *two* 5/8" layers on the opposite is about 55. We still have not achieved ’twice’ the stc rating, and we are well beyond what an existing 1/2" on the existing interior wall, and a new 5/8" layer on the garage would achieve, but it wouldn’t be as effective as two layers of 1/2" on both sides, an increase of only 11 STC points.

Can you achieve twice a standard 2x4 with 1/2" drywall 33 STC rating? Yep, you can get to 50-60, but not with a single layer of 5/8". Would it help? Yep, but not in reducing the transmission by 1/2.

My stereo room is above the garage. On the advice of a specialist I was able to add a floating sub-floor when the house was built.  On top of the standard 3/4" plywood floor, I added a layer of roofers felt covered by a 1/2" plywood layer scewed into the first layer, not into the studs. I also had the wiring for the  equipment outlets direct to a sepatate 20A breaker.

Please do yourself a favor, read my first post again. Specifically,

Usually only people who have actually been through this process know these things. So be careful, because a lot don't, but act like they do.

So for example when I say something like blocks twice the sound, that is because when you build it you will notice about half the sound getting through. If I wanted to sound all snotty and impressive I could spout dB specs all day and all night. This is the difference between trying to inform and trying to impress. Really wish the BSD types would catch on.

In other words you're one of those people you specifically warn about.

that is because when you build it you will notice about half the sound getting through

And once again MC, that simply isn’t true. You might believe it to be true, but the numbers arrived via testing of the assembly’s don’t agree with you. It is not ’snotty’ to have an understanding of these numbers/construction assemblies. I’m in the architectural design biz, by code I must adhere to them at times, for wall separations of apartments as example (along with fire separation ratings). That is part of my job responsibility. And these various assembly’s are documented and tested (in a strict testing facility) so that they can be referenced to in conforming to various STC code requirements as necessary with the governing building authorities.

Same here @bkeske 

You state the facts.

Okay, here's a fact: bkeske didn't say one word about having built anything, let alone a listening room. What he said is he knows how to follow code.

by code I must adhere to them at times, ... (along with fire separation ratings) ...so that they can be referenced to in conforming to various STC code requirements as necessary with the governing building authorities..

Wonderful. Won't burn down. Noted.

Experience has taught me the last person you want high end audio advice from is an EE, and the last one you want advice on building anything from is an architect. Both have the same problem, they don't know how to think! They only know how to do what other people tell them- usually bureaucrats and administrators who sit on committees writing "codes"! (See above- actually brags about following codes!)

 

Admittedly, they have great PR. Who is famous for being the greatest architect in the world? Frank Lloyd Wright. What is the leakiest highest maintenance constantly falling apart house in the world? Falling Water. Designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. It's a fact. You could look it up.

So much for that pissing contest.

 

Millercarbon, you truly have issues. Settle down before you look even more foolish.

Just stating facts MC.

I love Frank Lloyd. He was one of the best. As you noted, Falling Waters needed millions to restore and reinforce its structure, or else it would have literally fallen apart and into the river below it. Same thing happened to one of his houses here in the Cleveland area. I knew personally the Architect (now deceased) who’s job was to save that one too. Interesting fact, in most municipalities back then, obtaining building permits and the review of structural and the overall integrity of residential homes was almost non-existent. Not so today. Much more is required from permitting and conformance.

Yes, it is interesting that fire rated walls and STC conforming walls actually combine in doing the same but different jobs. For example, it would also be more wise to use Type X Drywall for sound, as it is more dense. Why? Because Type X is a fire rated drywall/ gypsum board. But it can benefit sound separation as well.

 

 

@millercarbon "See above- actually brags about following codes!"

speaking of doing some research why don't you look up the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in Highland Heights, Kentucky back in the 70's before the state of Kentucky had dedicated building codes and loosely followed the BOCA code if you would like to see what an egregious comment you just made. Disgusting!! Any architect bragging about following building codes is the architect I will have in my practice. My license and any other architects' license is given for the life, safety and welfare of all occupants of that building for as long as that building stands. Not how well you pick colors. You had drywall installed. Now shut up and let the professionals speak. Pissing contest? Piss off! 

hiend2-

Just want to explain so you don’t get the wrong idea. Read through it all you will see these guys are talking past each other. When I said 5/8" cuts sound in half compared to 1/2", that is correct. In fact, it is conservative.

Sound is measured in dB. This is a log scale. What this means, a 3dB difference is twice as much power. There really is no scale for what we perceive as loudness, let alone half as loud, twice as loud, etc. It is a judgment call. If you build it, you will see. It will be apparent. You will not need an architect, engineer, or anyone else to tell you, you will know.

 

Notice nowhere does bekske mention or even allude to any of this. Nor does he even mention dB, even though this is the standard of audio measurement. Instead he references only STC ratings, something that might have meaning to another engineer or architect but is meaningless here. (Notice how fast others, equally clueless, are so quick to be fooled by his techno-jargon. Audiophiles love techno-jargon.)

 

This happens a lot, people with credentials trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Not one word about sound. Fire. We got you covered on fire. And code.

 

I trust you see the difference.

When I said 5/8" cuts sound in half compared to 1/2", that is correct. In fact, it is conservative.

No it isn’t. It is absolutely false, and there have been tests to confirm it is false. And STC ratings are absolutely related to the db's that will be created, mitigated, etc.

@hiend2 You can do as you wish, but please do not believe the false claims MC keeps making. You have other issues, and drywall is only one.

Sure you can make your garage into a listening room, but based on where you live, and the various code requirements to make your garage a habitable space, legally, should be brought up with an Architect or a qualified builder to help guide you. or, perhaps you want to maintain it as a ’non habital’ garage that you will simply listen to music in, and whenever you move, it’s just a garage again. If the former, design and permitting will be required for a variety of code issue vs a ’garage bay’. To many details to consider and explain within a forum post.

Post removed 
Post removed 

Thanks for the replys. The garage listening room will still have all the shelfs, table saw ect still in there.

Its definatley a dead sounding enviorment, The wall are solid stucco on the outside.

Maybe framing a good solid wall infront of the Main door.

Going to bring in a set of speakers and amps and listen to someting fimilair, the room the system is in now are almost the same dimensions, will report

Thanks for replies

From what I just read on the web, the STC rating is a limited frequency power rating apparently measured in dBs. Acoustic power says 10dBs is approximately what we perceive as twice as loud (or half as loud). So a rating of 43 vs 33 would be twice as quiet (approximately). But don't forget that is a limited frequency measurement, not the full audio spectrum. 

QuietRock 545 is better then drywall. (STC-rated Assemblies ASTM E90:

60-80)

https://www.quietrock.com/products

 

@hiend2 "Going to bring in a set of speakers and amps and listen to someting fimilair, the room the system is in now are almost the same dimensions, will report" there you go. Listen and see what you have.

Since you will still be using the space as your garage and/or shop you may consider putting some drywall at selected locations on the walls to help reduce the amount of absorption in the space. Less about isolation and more about room acoustics and reducing the amount of absorption. I would normally suggests just using plywood on the walls in a space like that so you could use it to hang shop/garage items but sheetgood products like plywood and particleboard are still very high cost relative to last year. Drywall is more expensive as well but nothing like plywood. If you have a shop I'm guessing your relatively handy and you can hang the drywall yourself. Don't need to finish it if looks aren't a concern but this will help reduce absorption in the space. Best of luck! 

@arch2 

Since you will still be using the space as your garage and/or shop you may consider putting some drywall at selected locations on the walls to help reduce the amount of absorption in the space. 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Perhaps 2' drywall strips (spaced 2' apart), and add more as necessary. Yep, needs reflection.

I would also consider plywood or OSB, but as you say, it's still costing a fortune compared to gyp board.

arch2

Yes on your reply, Take advantage of the absobtion of the insulation.

If I would cover all the walls with wall board would end up with a lively mess