GaN amps: Peachtree or LSA Voyager?

You might also look at Atma-Sphere Class D

@mitch2  I had a pair on loan to listen to, courtesy of a dealer in NJ. They were very nice: detailed and smooth. Interesting in that they each have a large transformer, unusual for any class D that I have encountered. I could end up buying them, but I want to investigate more before I buy.

Another option is the new AGD Tempo

Orchard Audio Ultra for big power requirements. See Tom Martin’s TAS Preview.

Orchard Audio Ultra Amplifier

TAS Review

For lower power requirements. The little monoblocks that Dick Olsher reviewed in TAS.

Orchard Audio Monoblocks

TAS Review

I have not heard the others but I bought a Mini Gan 5 last year and it has a nice clean Class D presentation coupled with just a touch of 2nd harmonic warmth like you find with tubes and some Class A solid state.

@jackd Last year I bought a pair of AGD Audions, but returned them. Squeaky clean and detailed but thin and grossly over priced for 85 watt monos. And that fake tube thing... well, the idea of being able to upgrade is interesting. 

@rajugsw Thanks for the suggestions. I will check them out.

@bruce19 Hey, that is the kind of info I am looking for. Thank you!

Getting back to my original question, does anyone have experience with both the Voyager and the Peachtree GaN 400?

Last year I bought a pair of AGD Audions, but returned them. Squeaky clean and detailed but thin and grossly over priced for 85 watt monos.

if that is the experience of this poster, then i would guess there will be no oasis to be found in this barren desert of gan/d amps... 😅

@markmuse I had the Voyager 350 and also had it modded by EVS. After the mods I thought the Voyager was similar to my Benchmark AHB2 but with more power. It was super clean and quiet, though It lacked the bass power of my CODA #8. However, it sounded better on top than my CODA #8. I sold my Voyager and kept the CODA #8 because I felt the CODA had more meat on the bones. I sold the CODA #8 yesterday mainly to raise some cash.

After my experience with various amps I realized my long term amps were going to be Class A and the AHB2. The plan was to upgrade the CODA #8 to the #16 though I realized I could get more bang from my buck from the new KRELL XD lineup. Such as this one.

@markmuse The problem is that given their similarities people tend to buy either/or.  I can't remember a post where someone had both units in house.  If I were buying in this price bracket, I'd wait for an Orchard Ultra Stereo.

Thanks to everyone.

@jjss49 Like your picture and the music it represents. Other than environmental issues I'm not sure why I'm wedded to class D. I guess America loves the underdog. Currently using Bel Canto Ref600 monos which are class D but not GaN. They are anything but meatless. The only problem I have with them is a slight synthetic texture that appears mostly in sax and some piano registers. And they are not as quiet as they could be, but I am nit picking here. On the whole with these Fyne speakers they sound great. The Black amp from Bel Canto is a little bit smoother and quieter, but I don't believe I can hear into the music quite as well with it (might be an artifact of the texture thing I mentioned). And it cost $12,000 US.

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks! I have been following your trials on here. I almost bought a Coda 8 a while ago. That is quite a price drop on the Krell. I have thought about Krell too. I like the idea of XD, but I haven't heard one. The 300 is a bit rich for me. I might investigate the 175. I remember you saying you sold the Voyager in favor of the Benchmark, but did you say why? Why? I've thought about the Benchmark as well (had the LA-4 for a while and it was quite good). Concerned about the dryness with it too. But then I have a three subs that could maybe pick up the slack. Dunno.

@twoleftears I am definitely interested in the Orchard Ultra with upgrades. But again, how do I hear one before purchasing? I haven't been able to find their return policy. Do you have reason to believe it will sound different from the other GaN offerings?

14 days

https://orchardaudio.com/refund_return_policy/

What Pre are you using?

Currently using Bel Canto Ref600 monos which are class D but not GaN. They are anything but meatless. The only problem I have with them is a slight synthetic texture that appears mostly in sax and some piano registers.

@whitefishpoint1175  Rogue RP-7 NOS

@markmuse interesting. Have you tried different tubes?

@markmuse I did not want to sell the CODA #8 which I was using as a headphone amp for my RAAL SR1a. However, today I put in an order for the RAAL VM-1a. That is a $7K after tax amp and I needed to sell the CODA #8 to raise the funds. The VM-1a is the very best amp for the SR1a. It is of course purposefully built ONLY for the SR1a. I consider the SR1a the equal to my 2-channel system. Its that good, especially for my late night listening.

That used KRELL 300XD is a screaming deal given that the new one is $12K after the recent price increase. The XD lineup is big and ugly but it sounds so fine. Tonight I am going to put my Benchmark LA4 preamp in place of the CODA 07x preamp with the KRELL XD175. This is for my speakers. Now that I am getting the RAAL VM-1a amp I do not need the dual XLR outputs of the CODA 07x for a 2-channel amp for headphones (the CODA #8). I also like the pairing of the CODA 07x with my Benchmark AHB2 amp which I have connected to KEF LS50’s in my Livingroom..

I sold the Voyager (after the EVS mods) because it sounded a lot like the AHB2. The Voyager was more powerful but still not powerful enough for my Thiel CS3.7’s. The Voyager also did not sound good on my RAAL SR1a headphones (very surprising). The AHB2 did sound good with my SR1a headphones and even though it is underpowered for my Thiel CS3.7, on certain music I love the AHB2 the most on the Thiel CS3.7. So the modified Voyager had a similar sound to my AHB2 and I did not need the duplication of that sound.

The AHB2 will also be in the house long term. It is my favorite amp.

BTW - the KRELL XD and Benchmark AHB2 are on 2 opposite ends of the sound spectrum. I think both are great.

@markmuse I though I would add one more post since you once owned the Benchmark LA4 preamp. I am now listening to the LA4 connected to my KRELL 175XD and into my RAAL SR1a headphones. These phones are brutal if the signal is bad. Well what I am hearing is not brutal but incredible. Just so much more bite to the music and more details over the CODA 07x preamp. I was using the CODA 07x preamp as a tone control in the past,, mainly to eliminate fatigue. With the LA4 I am not getting fatigue either, just better sound. Wow, what a great amp and preamp combo.

This combo will also be great with my speakers, I will listen to that in the morning.

Anyone looking for a CODA 07x preamp?

@yyzsantabarbara Thanks for that update. What speakers? What efficiency? Please let me know how that combo works for you with speakers. 

My thinking is to approach it from the other direction: Pre with NOS tubes and a GaN based amp (though I could reverse that with the combo you have). I wish there was a good GaN amp with a tube input stage.

Was it the Coda 7 pre you used with the AHB2? What are you using with it now? I would think something with a bit of warmth and liquidity (tubes) would be the right direction.

@whitefishpoint1175 Yes, currently using Mazdas in the front positions with RCA 5814A following. 

Okay just thought some tube rolling in your pre amp may be beneficial and help with the artificial sound or artifacts on certain instruments. 

I had 600M in a system but also had the 3.7 DAC-Pre and it sounded very authentic no asperities in the sound at all  

I was a little harsh on the CODA 07x preamp last night. I had been using it in my office because I needed the dual XLR outputs for my 2 amps, a CODA #8 and the KRELL 175XD. I always felt the Benchmark LA4 was better suited for my tastes with those 2 amps, but it only had 1 set of XLR outputs. So, the CODA 07x was used in the office and it was excellent with the RAAL and almost as good with my speakers. Now that the RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp is coming to my house I can use the LA4 as I did last night.

The CODA 07x preamp is now setup in my living room with a Sansui tuner and Benchmark AHB2 amp. I took out the Benchmark DAC3B from the Livingroom since I want it with the new RAAL VM-1a in the office. Even with the tuner as a test I was able to hear some fantastic synergy with the AHB2 and the CODA 07x. I think I still prefer the LA4 and AHB2 combo but the 07x is killing it with the AHB2. The 07x also has better sounding bass output to my sub than the LA4. My Livingroom speakers are KEF LS50’s and KEF KC62 sub. This could be due to the dual XLR outputs vs the RCA output to the sub from the LA4. The CODA 07x is staying.

Now for the LA4 + KRELL Duo 175XD combo to my Thiel CS3.7 speakers. My KRELL 175 is not ideally suited for these speakers because they are hard to drive and go into 2 Ohms a lot. The KRELL Duo 300XD I linked to above is actually a better choice for my speakers. I spoke to KRELL on this. However, I had a better deal to buy the KRELL 175XD with a trade-in of a Parasound A21+ amp. My office is also not big so I thought I would be OK, and I am.

Last night I played a lot of tunes, but I was mainly interested in hearing Led Zeppelin IV and Moving Pictures by RUSH, to see if that missing bite or excitement in the music shows up with the Benchmark LA4. On my RAAL SR1a, it was incredible (almost as good as the VM-1a that is coming). On the Theil CS3.7’s this morning that extra bite I wanted is there. You can really hear it in the percussion from Bonhem and Peart. I am also not getting any fatigue from this combo.

The KRELL does soften the sound a tad and the clarity of the LA4 is a perfect match. The CODA #8 I sold, is a bit stronger on top and was not a as good on the RAAL + LA4 (fatiguing). The CODA #16 that I demoed is very much like the KRELL XD (maybe better), but I never has it in my home system.

I like my rock music on the LA4 + KRELL combo. This is the best I have heard the Thiel CS3.7’s in my room. For more acoustic type of music, say Michael Kiwanuka, that CODA 07x and KRELL was goosebumps. The CODA 07x + CODA #8 was also killer with Kiwanuka.

I am now playing Kiwanuka on the LA4 and KRELL. Yikes, goosebumps and a bit more clarity to the sound. I love the somg THIS KIND OF LOVE from Kiwanuka. I demoed that song at a dealer with the CODA #16 and CODA 07x preamp and it was just like what I am hearing with the LA4 and KRELL 175XD. Maybe a tad more sharpness with my combo. It is this CLASS A on the #16 and 175XD that really stands out.

The 175XD and 300XD are supposed to output ALL their power in Class A. Some competitors say this is not really Class A since it does not burn electricity and have a massive chassis.

If someone prefers tubes then the CODA 07x and KRELL XD maybe preferred. Though for me the LA4 works better.

Bonzo's last name is spelled Bonham. Enjoy !

@mrdecibel ??? 
I know who he is, but do you have the right thread?

@markmuse, this is the right thread. Misspelled by YYZ. I am a stickler for correct spelling, sorry.......

@twoleftears You recommended the Orchard Audio Ultra Stereo. It looks interesting to me, but I am curious why you specifically recommended that one over the other GaN offerings discussed (Voyager, Peachtree, Atma-Sphere)? 

Proprietary GaN module, designed and implemented by the principals of Orchard.  Excellent reviews.  Voyager and Peachtree use off-the-shelf components.

I didn't recommend it over Atmasphere; beyond Orchard, I'd definitely recommend you look, at somewhat higher price points, at Atmasphere and, especially, AGD.

Misspelled? 😂

The Voyager and Peachree use modules from Elegant Audio Solutions.....they were listened to and tweaked for years......how is the Orchard better than that?....designed by one guy.

The ONLY way to know which sounds best is to A/B.  I don't care which one is best.......your ears will know.  So, wlll someone get them both in their hands at the same time and A/B and tell us something REAL......or do we just keep guessing?

And who has A/Bed the AGD or Atmasphere with any of the above?  Probably, no one......so we don't know diddly-squat..

Another one to consider is the Purifi module and especially the brand new "better sounding' Purifi modded by myself.....or even sold as stock by VTV.....I bet that is nice too.  BTW,  i don't care if I ever mod one as my new Music Purifiers are going to take over the world....he he.....

So many products.....so little money and time and energy.

They all get rave reviews....they all have fan boys....none of them have ever compared......Full of unknowns....this high end audio is......Back in the 70s we all knew exactly what all the products did because there were so few of them......my buddies and I had almost all the serious high end components available at the time and we could just go over to each others house and do an A/B real quickly.....this was a five mile radius of people in Berkeley.

Wouldn't it be cool if some magazine got all the above amps in and burned them all in for 400 hours and compared them all in a couple of systems.....of course, all of them on the same footers, same power cords, etc.  Will this ever happen.?....absolutely not....because the losers in the sonic test would never advertise in the magazine again and the persons reviewing them would never get a anything else....ever....from the loser companies.  Interesting that cameras, cars, motorcycles, tvs, almost everything else in the world are tested and compared......not high end audio.....it is a mystery game.....enjoy the mystery.

Here is what is REALLY cool.....all of the above amps are great....they are.....you would be happy with any of them (that is why they are all getting rave reviews).....but which one is best?   Flip a coin.

You don't have to flip a coin to be happy.....just choose the happiness side and feel it, live it and be it.  Blessings to you all.

@ricevs Thanks Rick. I was wondering when you would chime in. I was wondering about Purifi too. Tell me more. What are you doing with it? What has NAD done with it? (Oh, aghast! NAD in a high end system?) Tell me more, I am genuinely interested.

@evelyn1 Stop it. Get back in your cage.

@twoleftears Playing devil's advocate here: Is a home grown GaN module necessarily better than off the shelf stuff? I had a pair of AGD Audions a year or so ago and returned them. I think my comment was something like 'detailed and squeaky clean but anemic, thin, and over priced for 85 watts.' I understand that moving up to the next AGD level adds more grunt, but the cost is outrageous.  

@markmuse I think you are the first person I ever heard describe an AGD amp as "Thin". Did you give them time to settle in? Did you use a good power cord? I can't speak for the Audion, but my GV's are far from thin. Also, the tube is not fake, it is the actual output stage, pull it out and guess what, no sound. Over priced is relative, people spend 20K on 5w set amp, so price is highly subjective IMO.

Most info is on website.  More info can be gotten by calling me directly.  check out website for phone #

The AGD tube is not a real tube.....it is a solid state circuit in a tube bottle. A tube is a type of amplifier.....AGD did this just for marketing......to make it look cool (it does allow different circuits to be changed down the line....but of course, that could also be done internally). That is why the same circuit is in their new baby stereo amp.....and no fake tubes.

@ron1264 Yes, I gave them a fair chance. And that was with a pair of Spatial X5, 97db with a self-powered woofer. Like I said the next step up in the AGD line supposedly solves that problem, but the price, if I recall, was double the cost of the Audion. Yes, I know the "tube" is the output stage and I applaud the ability to upgrade by replacing the "tube". I just think out is a bit pretentious. But that's just me. 

What speakers and preamp are you using with them?

@ricevs AGD has never tried to pass this on as a "Vacuum Tube" or "valve", they have called it a "GaNTube" and it is a real GaNtube. The new stereo amp is a totally new platform, not the same even thought the output is still interchangable.

@markmuse I’m using the AGD Andante as the preamp/DAC and have Persona 3F speakers.

Ah!  I have it  now. Jeff Rowland is what you need.

@twoleftears Ha! I have Rowlands. Well, sold one 535, still have the other. Had a Model 2 for years. And a Synergy pre. Jeff has pulled all his D's off the market. I don't know if he is rethinking his involvement with class D or getting ready to do the latest D tech. 

Unless you like load dependent frequency response like the old Tripath class d amps from 20 years ago, I would avoid the Peachtree or LSA Voyager modules like the plague. Old class d designs with the latest flavor of the month, GaN. Too bad they use too low of a switching frequency to exploit the real advantages of the GaN devices.

Orchard on the other hand has a state of the art design and while they still don't use a switching frequency high enough to really get the benefits from the GaN devices at least they use a proper circuit and don't have a load dependent frequency response.

There is also Purifi which is the current state of the art. They don't use the GaN devices because, well, they see no need- they have a very clever design which produces an amp with stellar performance, both measured, and, if all the reviews and customer opinions are to be believed, has great subject performance as well.

Look into Purifi and Orchard. There was a review of Orchard's amp in the latest AudioExpress I believe.

The Voyager/Peachtree modules designed by EAS are the latest thing from them.  The reason they do not measure as well as Purifi and Orchard is that they chose to use very little feedback (20 db....decided by listening tests....something Kuibo does not understand).  Purifi and Orchard use a ton of feedback. 

As far as switching frequency.....this is arguable....at best.  

Please, do not listen to me or anyone else.....listen to the amps and decide for yourself which one is for you.  All of them have rave reviews.....If you want to decide beforehand based on measurements....then fine......but don't think your super fine measureing amp is the best sonically.  I modded the Purifi based VTV amp so check out 10audio.com and read his reivews of the NAD using this same module versus my modded VTV......he gave the NAD a 6 and my amp a 9.5 bordering on 10 (10 point scale)......this is for sound, of course.....he did not measure them.  Every single thing you do to an amp changes the sound.  I can improve the Orchard, as well.....very easily....and yet, it will not measure one iota different.  This game is infinite......just like our infinite nature.....enjoy the infinity.....and beyond!

Here are links the the reviews that were mentioned above:

@pwayland Please explain. What was your experience with these devices that merits such comments?

@kuribo 

WOW. I can't imagine why you would trash the Peachtree/Voyager amps. I have owned a considerable number of tube, SS, hybrids, I rank the Voyager with the very best of them. I listen to a wide variety of music, and it never disappoints

The only thing infinite here is the bs being slung by profiteers who constantly shill their snake oil and prey upon the audio nervosa of the uninformed and insecure.

It is an indisputable fact that the Peachtree and Voyager used GaN modules have a load dependent frequency response. That means that they will sound different with different speakers and at different frequencies with the same speaker if it is one with a widely varying impedance. It may well be appealing with some speakers and yet not so much with others. This was a known issue with the old Tripath class d designs as well as I mentioned previously. It is a less than optimal design which has been solved and overcome by nearly every class d design in the last 20 years. It’s a known and potentially serious issue. It’s like a car that handles differently depending on the temperature outside: when it’s sunny and warm, it performs like a Porsche and when it is cloudy and cool, like a Pinto. If that makes you happy, then by all means enjoy the Peachtree and LSA module.

Anyone who takes the time to educate themselves and does a little reading will find that there are no real benefits to GaN devices when used in class d amps at low switching frequencies other than marketing appeal. There can be real benefits- but only if they are implemented in such a way that those benefits can be utilized. Low switching frequencies do not do it. Hand waving won’t do it. Read.

And here we have another audio fallacy: feedback is bad. Again, anyone who takes the time to read the latest research and listens to amps like the Purifi, Orchard, Atmosphere’s new class d, etc., will realize this old trope is based on a lack of knowledge or in this case, more self interested tweak sales.

Notice how every comment about these class d amps includes a self serving comment about how "I can improve them"? It’s a nonstop sales pitch filled with falsehoods. The Purifi and Orchard amps have been designed and engineered to do exactly what an amplifier is by definition: they take the input and make it bigger with as little distortion as possible. If you want to add distortion and give an amp some sort of euphonious sound profile, use DSP which is much cheaper and without all the dishonesty. And you can tailor the "sound" profile to what suits you, rather than what suits your local charlatan.

 

All I know is I had an integrated amplifier with Purifi modules that sound very well mediocre. Had a GaN amplifier that was just more of the same mediocre. Not going to slam the brands as they were not my cup of tea that's all. 

My Rogue Pharaoh II is sounding really good! Enjoying it immensely and gets better every day. 

@kuribo you are correct. Who cares what other’s opinions are. 
 

@music_is_life I do. That is why I started this thread. I can't afford to buy all the amps I'm interested in to make a comparison.

@kuribo Debate? Who the hell wants a debate? I can look at the specs of the various amps and compare that for myself, but as most of us know that is only the first step. The proof is in the puddin, as they say, and the puddin in this case is completely subjective. See my comments to music_is... above. 

Regarding the 'self serving bs being slung' around here, I asked for it. I find it useful. And finally I am an adult, unlike some others who lurk around here, and I know how to interpret these comments - I don't need you to do it for me. Thank you very much. Now get back into your cage unless you have something useful to contribute.

@kuribo Debate? Who the hell wants a debate? I can look at the specs of the various amps and compare that for myself, but as most of us know that is only the first step. The proof is in the puddin, as they say, and the puddin in this case is completely subjective.

So first you read the specs and objective information, then you ask strangers on the internet their opinions of the products, knowing nothing of their tastes, preferences, listening environment, etc.? And this is how you evaluate the "pudding"? You haven’t even dug deep enough to understand the design and performance shortcomings of these GaN amps. You claim to understand the subjective nature of audio equipment evaluation, yet you come here to solicit subjective opinions which in fact can not be trusted to tell you anything meaningful as far as how you will perceive these products. Some people will like them, some people won’t, and the slime will try to sell you something. It’s called noise and it’s all these kinds of threads ever generate.

Regarding the ’self serving bs being slung’ around here, I asked for it. I find it useful.

Useful? Really? How so? Snake oil salesman shilling their fraudulent claims does no one any good.

I offered factual information on these two products which you clearly had no knowledge of. If you are truly looking for useful input, rather than hand holding and self confirmation, there you have it. Rather than be rude and insulting, you might give some thought to the fool’s errand you are on in seeking the approval and subjective opinions of others.

@kuribo I would be more inclined to pay attention to what you have to say if you were not so negative and condescending. You might actually have a useful contribution, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past your attitude.