GaN amplifier from GaN themselves limited supply!!!
arch2 They’re not parts Arch, but the complete made up item without box. It’s easy as abc to abc arch, if you can put a system together, you could do this, if you took time look at the data sheet over a few times while doing it, everything would sink in. And don’t forget, if something puzzles you, we all here have access to the data sheet to help out, and you "could" end up with one helluva GaN Class-D Integrated with dac. for $1.3k It’s all here iec AC to the power supply, +- power supply connector to the Class-D board, I drew in the input rca’s and speaker terminals https://ibb.co/bHjMpSs the rest is just mounting screws a box and speaker terminals. Cheers George |
Come on George.....just buy the dang thing instead of posting about it. Actually, I am sure it is good......but very good....I doubt it. Come on people, get your eval board right here. Maybe you can make it work. Maybe you will not lose a lot of money. Really great resale value.....not. There will be assembled GaN integrated amps within a few years for under $500 and boards from China for even less.....don’t waste your money on this eval board. The only reason you don’t see the market flooded with GaN amps is that they have to be designed from the ground up. However, once there are a lot of designs floating around.....well, you know the Chinese.....they can clone things faster than frying a pancake. Get ready for GaNoramma....coming to your internet near you soon. |
I have absolutely no interest in those boards......even if they were free.Then why are you here trying to derail this thread???🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ This is the second time this feature packed GaN Evaluation board has really got under your skin. A little strange for this kind of reaction, I believe you’ve just shown your colours. As it seems the way your going on in this way, that it’s detrimental or in direct opposition to what your attempting to do with members here with other Class-D modules, as you can only get one these, and no more, so it’s of no use to you. And for everyone’s else’s information, it’s a USA based Company, and nothing to do with China at all. GaN Systems Corp. 2723 South State Street, Suite 150, Ann Arbor, MI. USA 48104 T +1 248-609-7643. Cheers George |
All eval boards are created by engineers to show off their parts......"OH look, they work". They are not designed by people who have spent hundreds of hours designing, listening and redesigning till it sounds great. GaN Systems is not a bunch or tweaky audiophiles. We are all serving each other. We are each others brother. I share what I do because you and I are one. I am talking to myself. We are all....always talking to ourself. So, as your brother and your Mother I want you to be happy. So, I recommend things that I think will make you happy. Most people who talk to me directly do not do any business with me because I direct them to another service/product that would best fit them. My goal is perfect worship.....perfect service.....perfect love....perfect joy and perfect peace. What is your goal? |
Ummm someone’s not impressed.😴It would help if more information was available. One thing seems apparent: While it might make 200 watts into 8 ohms it will not be able to do that for any length of time as there appears to be no provision for a heatsink (although it may be possible to heatsink it). Without a heatsink at 200 watts the output devices will simply overheat and fail- probably within a few seconds but maybe a minute or two. IOW this kit really is for evaluation and for that I'm sure its just fine. But if I were to be building up a class D amp from parts I bought on the web and that amp were for personal use as a nice stereo this is not what I would get. One important thing missing is a bit of information about how the amp works. Is it zero feedback? Self oscillating? Stuff like that can have a huge effect on how it performs and sounds! |
WOW!!!! Didn’t take long, for the two that have the most to loose with their Class-D offering, to start rubbishing this GaN amplifier, as they do in other threads too. But they are so far out, they are in another universe. This is for others that are interested in this GaN by GaN amp Here is a test/measurement made by Amirm of Audio Science Review, one of the most highly respected sites for the truth on anything audio related. This GaN amp complete was loaned to them by an owner for test/measurement and "it had it’s variable feedback set at low" because the owner had it that way, trouble is a couple of measurements won’t be as good as they could have been Amrim says that in the tests. "Performance here is above average compared to median of all amps I have tested (which lands around 78 dB SINAD). But it not stellar. Speaking with the designer, his focus was to keep the level of feedback low to show the advantage of the GaN transistors not needing much. He was not aiming to produce the best performance possible. Personally I wish he had targeted that given that is what we like to see here. As for heat there’s virtually none. " Again, no heatsink due to high efficiency.s for heat sinking it runs so cool there’s no need for it. Practical MOSFETs take time to switch and during that time, they generate losses in the form of heat and limit how fast you can switch them. GaN transistors aim to solve this problem as these few slides from GaN systems show:" Distortion at high power for a Class-D is incredible "We see that the distortion is still under control instead of shooting through the roof.!!" "I don’t think I have ever tested a switching amplifier with this level of frequency independence. Even Class AB linear amps struggle to produce such an absolutely clean response. Amplifiers with high amount of feedback run out of gain at higher frequencies and hence distort more. Not this design." Even techs with follow up comments on the thread were very impressed. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/gan-systems-amplifier-eval-board-measurem... As for me getting one, all here know I only have Class-D preference for one, the Panasonic SE-R1 with it’s 1.5mhz switching frequency, even this GaN by GaN I started here, won’t shift my liner amps, yet!! Cheers George |
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Have you ever designed/built and sold successful products to the public? @soix - I know sometimes it's difficult to look past the person based on their comments and interactions with others, but George designed and built the Lightspeed Attenuator which I've owned for over 10 years and consider one of the best values in audio. Quite a lengthy thread about it on this site and an entire DIY thread on it elsewhere. So in addition to designing and building it George has shared it with the DIY community. As far as who knows what around here, Ralph's knowledge and expertise in this field is a given. I've owned his products for over 10 years as well. After reading several posts by Ric of late the kindest word that comes to my mind is: meh. |
Ralph’s knowledge and expertise in this field is a given. I’ve owned his products for over 10 years as well. After reading several posts by Ric of late the kindest word that comes to my mind is: mehCorrect Clio, in the OTL vacuum tube field he’s very knowledgeable. (solid state/D class offerings, different animal altogether yet to see anything there) And the other is at best to me questionable tweaker. You can see it a mile away, both are only here to discredit what could be disadvantageous to what they are doing to soon to come Class-D offerings they have. And you can see it on the other Class-D threads, they do similar to them, also discredit or say they can "make" it sound better with tweaks. Cheers George |
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What a lot of people don’t know is GAN transistors on their own are no miracle they are a very low distortion ,efficient Field Effect Transistor -FET, yes they can make a amplifier noticeably better ,but other parts too need be be on par to make a amplifier special. Just one of several technologies that are up and coming, which is good for Everyone. |
Amirm’s conclusion: Conclusions MOSFET transistors have revolutionized computing and switching power designs. It is nice to see a new type become available after decades of refinement of MOSFET. GaN transistors offered by GaN systems show a path to cooler running, more efficient and better performing amplifiers and power supplies. The eval unit unfortunately doesn’t show the improved performance due to different target for it. So best to look at commercial implementations that shoot for state of the art implementations. |
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You can see it a mile away, both are only here to discredit what could be disadvantageous to what they are doing to soon to come Class-D offerings they haveIt is not clear why you make jabs at trying to discredit a successful well liked individual like Ralph. From years of reading his posts it’s clear he is above those games. |
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Another Class D that struggles with lower impedances? Yeah, I know the specific technical arguments for higher impedance speakers, but when it comes to the sonic gestalt, I seem to lean towards those loudspeakers that have lower impedances. Wake me up when there are Class D amps that handle my preferred speakers as well as the better traditional ss amps do. I’m truly hopeful that such Class D amps can be offered at a reasonable cost. |
As for heat there’s virtually none.This statement is false as anyone who has actually worked with GaNFETs knows. Sure, you can make an amp that does not use heatsinks (we didn't add any until we got very close to production) but the simple fact is that GaNFETs do produce heat and if you can't get rid of it, they will fail and often quite dramatically when they do. And you might think that you don't have to worry about shoot thru current heating up the output devices since they switch so fast, but you'll find out differently if you don't include deadtime circuitry to prevent that. But if you're just doing demo and don't run the amp at full output you can get by without heatsinks." Again, no heatsink due to high efficiency.s for heat sinking it runs so cool there’s no need for it. Practical MOSFETs take time to switch and during that time, they generate losses in the form of heat and limit how fast you can switch them. GaN transistors aim to solve this problem as these few slides from GaN systems show:" We expect people to abuse our products. So we built the amp so it can be at full output into 4 ohms and it can sit that way all day. That would not be possible without heatsinks! But for evaluation I'm sure this circuit board is fine. You don't need heatsinks for evaluation applications! Distortion at high power for a Class-D is incredibleThis has nothing to do with GaNFETs and everything to do with the design. What is being referred to here is sufficient Gain Bandwidth Product, which most amplifiers lack in order to have feedback and consistent distortion numbers at any frequency in the audio spectrum (this BTW is a requirement if the amplifier is expected to sound musical). I've made comments about this aspect elsewhere on this site. What this says is that Amir hasn't tested a lot of class D amps; Bruno Putzeys' designs share this property of consistent distortion at all frequencies, and his designs use MOSFETs."We see that the distortion is still under control instead of shooting through the roof.!!""I don’t think I have ever tested a switching amplifier with this level of frequency independence. Even Class AB linear amps struggle to produce such an absolutely clean response. Amplifiers with high amount of feedback run out of gain at higher frequencies and hence distort more. Not this design." I know sometimes it's difficult to look past the person based on their comments and interactions with others, but George designed and built the Lightspeed Attenuator which I've owned for over 10 years and consider one of the best values in audio.@clio09 I agree the Lightspeed is one of the better examples of a passive volume control. To make the devices inside do what they do (which is to say, operate in a linear fashion) takes design skill. Why do you think George designed it- doesn't that seem a bit odd? |
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unsound Totally correct Class-D do not like low impedances (yet) that most of the real hiend speakers have. Also the switching frequency still has to be 4 x higher so it’s filter remnants and phase shift are "well out of the audio band" as Technics did with their impossible to get GaN SE-R1 From Absolute sounds reviewand maybe their SR-1000 integrated has also. https://www.lbtechreviews.com/test/hi-fi/technics-su-r1000 Low impedance stability and drive is the reason why I still like linear amps for my main system. I do have Hypex NC500 mono blocks though (with no input buffer and massive linear supplies) for the easier to drive second system though. They do well there, but still have that "segregated" uppermid/highs problem all Class-D’s seem have to me (which I’m sure is the switching frequency/phase shift problem) and where that Technics should shine Cheers George |
Also the switching frequency still has to be 4 x higher so it’s filter remnants and phase shift are "well out of the audio band" as Technics did with their GaN SE-R1 and maybe their SR-1000 integrated has also.This statement is false. If there is sufficient feedback, phase shift at 20KHz will be under 1 degree even if the filter is set at 70KHz. Also, class D amps if designed as self-oscillating (ex.: Hypex) are inherently stable regardless of load as they are **already** oscillating due to the amount of feedback they employ. You can't somehow get them to oscillate again over the existing oscillation.... |
Yeah, just throw more bandaid fix feedback at it. (just like the zero auto former you push for the OTL’s into hard loads) Everyone know too much feedback is detrimental to the sound, that’s why that GaN by GaN Class-D measured by Amirm had "very little feedback on it" programed from the owner, for the sake good sound, but of not measuring too well in certain parameters. (get with the program) and you and your mate stop putting on everything that’s in opposition to what you’ve got coming, not just on this thread I’ve seen but others too! And btw you can’t cure this kind of -75 degrees! of phase shift (red) with loads of feedback https://ibb.co/S06J7hf only a 4 x higher switching frequency will move that up out of the audio band!!! |
I see three camps here, but I've not read every post, so there could be more. Two seem very knowledgeable but are on opposite sides of the fence with respect to the viability of this DIY GAN integrated "opportunity". I am in the camp with Arch2--isnt' this stuff made with elfin magic that I do NOT posses? Seriously, I view what Ralph and Ric point out as good examples of what I subscribe to: You don't know what you don't know... Until you study up and practice in a given area of endeavor...and then you do start to know what end is up. I would like to build a speaker one day, but ignoring the fact that one could buy the parts and invest the time and be unhappy with the end result would be well ignore-ant. Lol. |
If anyone wants to read the "White Paper" on this $1.3k GaN by GaN stereo amp/dac/pre and power supply complete less case and connectors here it is. Hard to get any hiend audio manufactures to give white papers on their products. https://gansystems.com/class-d/?utm_source=press-release Because you just can’t b*** ***t much with voodoo and snake oil in them. (that leaves the "boutique AC fuse" lot out that’s for a fact) https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GaN-Systems/GS-EVB-AUD-BUNDLE1-GS?qs=vHuUswq2%252BszP6hR0ubJmfw%... Cheers George |
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I, for one, am quite interested in Ralph’s thoughts on this. Given his long history with OTL amps, I am very curious to see how these are received. https://www.facebook.com/AtmaSphereMusicSystems |
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That’s right he has cred with OTL tubes that’s a given. Different altogether doing SS linear or D class, no cred there yet, until his long awaited Class-D comes if ever?? So he shouldn’t put rubbish on this GaN by GaN amp before he gets some, otherwise he’ll be no better than his mate ricevs. Cheers George |
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Yeah, just throw more bandaid fix feedback at it. (just like the zero auto former you push for the OTL’s into hard loads) It seems there is doubt in your mind that George designed the Lightspeed and in my mind I just assumed he did because I have no evidence to the contrary and to my knowledge no one else has stood up and taken credit for it. The optocouplers which are the main component are off the shelf. The key is that they need to be well matched which I understand takes some work, but perhaps not necessarily skill.@clio09 I included George's quote above because its typical of his false statements regarding the topic he's addressing: the **entire thing** is false. This sort of thing has convinced me that he's good at marketing but someone else actually designed the Lightspeed or provided the basic fundamentals. Here's a DIY article on the topic:https://diyaudioprojects.com/Solid/DIY-Lightspeed-Passive-Attenuator/The circuit simplicity belies what you go through to build it as you can see. If George were able to show that he can disabuse himself of false notions when presented with fact I'd be more likely to believe he did the fundamental design work on he volume control. |
I have built 4 of these to date, the first was for me but as soon al local Las Vegas audiophiles heard it they were begging me to build them one.There is another reference board in the design stages as I have been in direct contact with Rick Reigel from GaN. As far as any tests done my AS, remember the design was built to show off the performance without high loop feedback which is what we want, trust me. The board has the ability to have open loop and closed loop feedback and the closed loop sounds a lot like my FM711 where the open loop is just another world of clarity, tone, timbre and low level details and spacial ques that are wiped out by SS designs. I have them heatsinked especially since my 2 main speakers, Apogee Divas and Thiel CS5i's are mean speakers to drive. The GaN amps are the future of amplification, trust me, you will be seeing a lot more of these amps. They remind me of super powerful VT25 amps for medium to low efficiency speakers. |
dht4me There you have it, thanks for posting that up This says it all, the two that are trying their hardest to discredit this GaN by GaN Class-D have only their own interests in mind, and should look after their own interest and stop putting rubbish on things for their own monitory gains. There is another reference board in the design stages as I have been in direct contact with Rick Reigel from GaN.This is great news, can you please keep me (by PM) and others here updated on this? Wow!! that is really saying something as this is no slouch of an amp to be compared to. https://www.fmacoustics.com/products/resolution-series/fm-711-mkiii/ Cheers George |
This says it all, the two that are trying their hardest to discredit this GaN by GaN Class-D have only their own interests in mind, and should look after their own interest and stop putting rubbish on things for their own monitory gains.Whose trying to discredit it? You can't find any of my comments attempting to do that. You can find a number of them that are corrections of misinformation though. |
This says it all, the two that are trying their hardest to discredit this GaN by GaN Class-D have only their own interests in mind, and should look after their own interest and stop putting rubbish on things for their own monitory gains.Who is trying to discredit this amp? Its not me; you can't find a post on this thread wherein I am doing that. I have pointed out that its likely to have heat issues, but that does not take anything away from a product meant for evaluation. Again: It would help if more information was available. One thing seems apparent: While it might make 200 watts into 8 ohms it will not be able to do that for any length of time as there appears to be no provision for a heatsink (although it may be possible to heatsink it). Without a heatsink at 200 watts the output devices will simply overheat and fail- probably within a few seconds but maybe a minute or two.Note Amirm's comment 'different target for it'; clearly he is aware and understands the significance of this product being meant for evaluation): The eval unit unfortunately doesn’t show the improved performance due to different target for it. So best to look at commercial implementations that shoot for state of the art implementations.He seems to agree with me on this. |
Usually, eval boards are made by Engineers who do not listen.....non tweakers. So, I assumed this board was like any eval board.....not worth playing with. If indeed, it sounds as dht4me describes.....than it could be a great thang....and made even greater by someone who tweaks....for instance,,,,,,It looks like op amps on the input (could not find the schematic). Discrete would be better. Yes, GaNs seem to be lighting up the world.....indeed. |
For those that are interested, don’t listen to the two detractors that have nothing on their minds but to put rubbish on the USA designed and made GaN by GaN Class-D amplifier for ulterior self motives, it’s obvious and clear. Listen to some one who has made 4 of them (which the above haven’t), and taken them to a audio listen session, and all local Las Vegas audiophiles heard it they were begging him to build them one. dht4me Cheers George |
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