Having had both the silver and the copper Eichmann's, I can only say that I liked the copper better. I tend to veer a little to the warm in my tastes and, while neither sound harsh, the copper is just a little more musical and comfy to my ears.... |
Hi John-good to hear your east coast voice up and at 'em. To my ear and in my experience, the Gabriel Golds are the best cable on the market. I realize that's a bold statement, but I have had them in my system for a couple of years and have no intention of ever changing them. They are the most accurate, neutral, and perfectly paced cables I have heard. The extension and detail offered are absolutely grainless and full at the same time; this is, in my opinion, their strongest suit, although I can find no faults in any area. The bible black silence of the background is adorned with an accurately portrayed soundstage with mesmerizing 3-d characters....this fully rounded image is another of their strong suits.
I have the Extreme's and have not heard the Revelations. If I wax and gush it's because....well. I wax and gush over them; they are what I have been looking for in an interconnect for 15 years. They give me a goofy grin just thinking about them and they are the only part of my system I never consider changing in all of my ever curious and obsessive participation in the madness that is this hobby. Prior to having them in my system it seemed I was always trying to make up for a shortcoming in one cable with a different cable in another position in the chain. The GG Extremes are now the only cable i have in my system (4 pairs).
I have found that I really appreciate the sound of amalgams over pure metals whether flying solo or in combo (i.e. a copper hot and a sliver return). When properly alchemied, the amalgams seem to offer all the best of the pure copper, carbon, silver or gold cables without their individual shortcomings. To that end, I have long been a fan of Siltech, especilaly with my amps of choice, Plinius. Other cables that i have had include Stealth PGS (_XL, _3D) and Metacarbons, Analysis Plus Solo Crystal and Golden Oval, all of the G3 Siltech incluing SQ88 and FTM4sg, all manner of Cardas. Harmonic Tech, Acoutic Zen, DH Labs, Empirical Audio, Discovery, Zu Cable..anyway, those are the ones that I can recall without squinching my eyes and rubbing my templews with tiger balm or something like that.
As for the terminations as mentioned above, some of my equipment won't accept the Eichhmann's because the rca receptacles are just too deep and won't allow the terminations to ground properly. I have one pair with the copper Eichmann's, one with the previous silver Gelco's that you see on Audioquest and two pairs that I had reterminated with Bocchino B7's. The previous Gelco's were great and I wish the Eichmann's worked in all my equipment, because if Steve says they sound better, then they do. He has a great ear and, from what I understand, a great group of audiophile friend's and connaisseur's that rule by blind democracry with sonic sound tastings and testings.
Only the best of the changes survive and what has emerged is a tasty treat not only for the ear, but for the brain with an aural endorphin bonanza! There's magic in them there cables: that's it and that's that. Enjoy the tunes!
Best, Art |
geojap-i could extend my list of cables i have owned to another 10 or 15 pretty easily, all of which have been replaced with the gg esxtremes. granted, most of them not head to head comparison, but a fair number of the higher end ones were a/b'ed. you would likely bd beter off doing your own comparison and letting =us all know your results...enjoy the journey!
john-no worries. we have exchanged some cable and gear a couple of times and i think our aural tastes are sort of similar. i think it would be worth you while to sell off some power cords and try some of steve's ic's. it would great to hear your impressions.
anyway, right out of the box is damn good, but after a 200 hours or so, you'l be even more inpressed. i really don't think i have anything to add to the description taken in toto given by bobf and darealjaydee and myself. i do have a little jones for the revelations..... as oscar wilde sez, 'i can resist anything except temptation itself!'
best, art |
excellent, geojap! i look forward to hearing what you hear! also, fwiw, your house remodel is an amzing testimony to how far we all can go to get the thing we're looking for. congrats, and rock on! |
your right, rja, 200 hours is more than you need, but 40 may be a little short for a full break in. but, it's one of those last few percent/rate of return curve things...... |
hey now, a rainy sunday and the terminals were humming@a-gon. steve is exceptionally easy to work with, but letting the customer set the price is on a different astral plane!
rja-the gg's wire is already cryo'ed, did the aftermarket cryo treatment make a difference?
pat-what are the other two gold cables? i have heard and compared the analysis plus and still own the gabriels. jade audio (thanks, john) looks interesting...i really do like amalgams though....
anyone tried steve's pc's? |
darealjaydee-right on! the gg's are fairly priced and steve is as helpful as he can possibly be, but he does (of course) have set prices. i was making a bit of joke by referring to that as another 'astral plane' and hope it wasn't taken poorly.
Rx8man....kci? i'll have to take a look! thanks! |
john-can't wait to hear your impressions of the gg's!
I have also had the rsad poiema!! (maybe there was a third '!'?) and found them to be neutral, detailed and quiet but a little sterile or cold and while accurate sort of boring in the end. of course, they were good enough for me to have two pairs and the pc's in my system before i moved on.....i had the same experience with argent pursang s's....i kind of remember thinking they both seemed wierd since they are silver based, but that's my memory of them.
osgorth-
i had a similar experience with the gg's and discovered that it was a grounding issue with the eichmann termination design. check to be sure that the grounding nubbin on the rim of the rca termination seats well against it's receptacle. my cary 306/200 and aes ae3 djh sig outputs both have receptacles that are too long for the eichmann's to ground properly. the oringinal silver gelco's that steve used didn't have that requirement....if that is the issue, i can steer you to where to get the gelco's anyway.
clio09-
the gg's are indeed not shielded. i haven't had any issue with rfi or other interference. i actually often find shielded cables...if they use a single lead with one end connected as a float for shielding...can act as antennaes and end up noisier. other types of shielding like the space dust and or metal beads (shunyata, sonoran audio) and other protective layering work better for me.
bobf-
are you also using the gg p/c's?
all-
enjoy the tunes!
best, art |
yeah, there are several issues with the eichmann's, but they sure sound good when you can use them properly...the other main issue being it's pretty difficult to solder onto the small pin and pot for the two leads and the ground pin is a little lacking in stability since it's so T-iny.... |
great, bob. thanks. i think i'll give them a ride....any reason for the extreme on power and revelation on source or did it just fall that way and stay put? i really like my mlt's and kept them in favor of the extremes, but it was closecloseclose and i stayed with the familiar. however, the idea of one cable throughout an entire system definitely has a core attraction to me. slow and steady, smell the coffee, enjoy the tunes and savor every step because you only get to it at that time once...well, i try anyway, but frenetic has a gravity all its own! might have to revisit the s/c's afterall. man, this is fun! best, art |
Great follow up, geojap! I would say let them burn in and retry them in sequence in your system. I have always called the source to pre site 'the driver's seat' for i/c's. that position definitely has the most influence. that being said, i agree wholeheartedly with your assessment (n.b. i have the extemes and not the revelations) that the tonality, pace and detail of the gg's can't be beat and that their soundstaging is great but not their best attribute. i have heard deeper soundstages, but none with better imaging,,,,so, put 'em in and let 'em go for a few days and let us know what you find!
i have tried steve's product on ss and tubes and between sources (cary 306/200, squeezebox 3, ft-101a etude tuner), preamps (aes djh, ayre k3x,and cary slp98), phono stages (modded aes ph-1...why did i let that one go!, plinius jarrah, musical fidelity xcan3) and amps (plinius only sa201, p8). they have been surprisingly un-fickle as to brand or configuration. this is counter to all my previous experience, but sort of intuitive if you have a predisposition (proclivity?) to believing best is best and DAMNIT things shouldn't always depend on 'synergy' and catching lightning in a bottle! ah, but i start to rant and digress.....sort of.
his cables have permanently replaced all others for me in all position, but i have never had a passive pre. really look forward to you follow up after break-in....i might have to trade up to the revelation myself! |
hey guys, bobf has had both the extremes and the revelation (see above...way above). he seems to think the difference is not terribly subtle, but i think la45 is right, more similarities than differences. i will hopefully be able to answer this question myself before too long..... |
"we don't need another hero"! ok, so it's a bad song....
i think any and all of us would just plain buy the best cable they can find for their system as long as they could afford it. big baked potato guy or small fry guy. best is best. and that's what we all want. that and as much as we can get for free!
the gg's have bested all cables i have tried including some pretty seriouis mega buck big potato guys like siltech ftm4sg, stealth metacarbon and analysis plus golden ovals. but, hearing is believing and if you haven't heard them, speculation is just that and has no really value....a doily twisting in the wind.....a modern day antimacassar oil salesman...
prior to owning the gg's i believed that finding synergy was like catching lightning in a bottle. all luck and keep on trying. each position in a system requiring its own lightning. but, now i still believe that different positions carry more impact on a system's sound but all of those positions sound best with the same cable....and that's the gabriel golds. weird, but true. my opinion, but i don't think i am alone here.
i still use the stealth mlt s/c's....sort of a long run and so pretty expensive, but if i could come up with the dough, i would absolutely throw it at a pair of revelations. i also use a variety of p/c's. lightning in a bottle still. i do think a system fully wired with one cable is conceptually attractive....maybe a one brand equipment and one cable system....but that means you still think synergy is king. i now think best is best.
so, who cares how many feet of wire costs how much and what the percentage and purity of the different metals are?! the sound of the gg's is absolutely astounding. come on in, water's warm. enjoy the tunes! |
Wow! I wrote that? I sound good on paper. Having written all that, I still stand by it....and hate tiger balm at the temples as it really burns the eyes... BUT, I will be upgradng the the Revelations anyway!. I can't resist the temptation forever and all the songs of praise sung on high in this thread finally pushed my button hard enough.
While I am at it, I think I should terminate the retermination question raised by my own meanderings. If I had read the Eichmann website more carefully and applied the hairdryer technique, I probably would've saved a thousand bucks or so and at least as many hours. But, i learned a lot and got to know some very interesting, engaging, knowledgeable and generous people along the way so I have no misgivings or regrets at all. And, I still have the Gabriel IC's which are another prize.
I have had Gabriel Extremes terminated by Steve with the original Jelco silver and both silver and gold/copper Eichmann Bullets. I have also had them reterminated professionally with the pricey Bocchino B3's. So, those represent the 'versions' in mind and above mentioned by John. I personally like the sound of both the Bocchino's and the copper Bullets a lot. And, while the down under group are obviously populated by extremists, in the end I fall into the 'less is more' camp and really prefer Steve's choice of the gold/copper Bullets. Interestingly, both of those terminations use plating techniques over copper that don't require or use a nickel base....I personally think that's a big deal offering a very large sonic advantage.
Back to the beef on the bone....the second pair Extremes I bought were silver Eichmann terminated and just didn't sound like i expected them to. The first Jelco terminated pair (standard issue at the time) I purchased had definitely raised the bar and I had already come to expect quite a bit. I decided it must be the Eichmann's not grounding properly....In the end, I didn't understand the design well or read their site thoroughly enough (as I mentioned earlier). I ended up reterminating with the Bocchino's and loved the sound! I reterminated them all with Bocchino's! Wow! Sounded amazing! Had to be the Bocchinos!
It was the Bocchinos...but WITH the Extremes. To be the complete and inquisitive audio junkie, I thought I should be able to compare the different termination and provide a complete review with solid a/b comparisons. So, reterminate one of the three to Jelco and buy one more with Eichmann gold/copper bullets....then compare contrast switch position.
In my system, to my ear, etc. silver is anathema.....even in small amounts plated onto terminations. In the end, all hail Steve's choice, the designer makes the best choice for his own cable. Surprise!
So, now I have all re-reterminated cables from Steve....I have put my ear and wallet out there to be counted and I stand by my experience. Now, I only have to sell the Extremes (now at about 37 inches in length...) to get some Revelations.
The madness is the fun. And I thin I may be approaching certifiable. I hope my recount was a fraction as enjoyable as the experience.
Peace! And, enjoy the tunes! |
Heya John-Is the Dream still on your pre or are you checking it out on other pieces? I have gotten both a BMI Hammerhead Gold MK1 and 2 and am listening up on different applications....my Cary CD 306/200 still loves the BMI's, but my AES pre seems to like Stealth. Go figure. Anyway, best regards and hope the family is ok or, at the very least, doing the best you can flying on the wings of love. |
Wow, a lot of vociferous exchanges. Too bad, but, on the other hand, that's what makes a horse race.
It's true that we all depend on honesty and divulging of associations, etc. and Audiobuzz is way out of line there, Probably something a monitor/moderator should be employed to deal with that issue. John (mcgrogan2) is right....and his word is gold as he is what I would call an ambassador of sound. He shares his experience, knowledge and even equipment so that we all can become richer in knowledge through experience of our own. And, only experience can help us help each other.
Ah, but I wax (or wane).
Clio9/Jafox-I have an older Sound Applications XE-12S and am also interested in cords and the Haley....If you could pass on any info, great!
FWIW-I have no monetary or other connection with any audio manufacturer/dealer or whatever. I really do love music...live and reproduced.
The Gabriels, in my opinion, offer a lot of excellent qualities. Their timber, pace, extension, tonality and detail are exceptional. I find a lot of air in them and no congestion in busy passages with dynamics (micro and micro) that have no flaw....actually damn exciting to me as it is without glare or overemphasis in any portion of range. But, I don't think they are the last word in soundstage. They offer good width, but not great depth to the stage. "Flat" is overstated IMHO and not my experience at all, but interesting that two independent audiobuds would call the same insound (a little coinage on my part from insight). In the end, their strengths are numerous and fantastic while their weaknesses are sparse and negligible (I have never seriously addressed equipment isolation and roon treatments.....another bailiwick).
The best use of this and any forum is difference of opinion. Lambasting each other is useless.
Jafox: Good on ya' (as we say in the south) and thanks! Your opinion is valued and valid. No cable is perfect and, as Joe K. (aren't you the lucky dude to have lumanaries all around!) pointed out (I think), making up for other cables' faults is often perceived as synergy. I have described it as "catching lightning in a bottle": The concept of balancing colorations is an old one and really well described at Bear Labs website as 'complimentay colorations':
http://www.bearlabs.com/NEXT/COLORATIONS.html
In the end, I always wonder if a single insightful designer for electonics should also design speakers all augmented by a single cable designer whose goods are used internally for the electronics would be perfect. I used Siltech with older Plinius gear and th esynergy was astounding.
That being said, the Gabriels have really worked well for me relieving those 'complimentary colorations' and are on the rarified permanent list for my gear....Well, changes come much more slowly these days anyway. But, I have no plans for changing or even interviewing for that position at this point in time.
I have never heard and Jade IC's or the Indra (although I have beta tested Stealth Metacarbon and GS 50/50's), but the fact taht they are all mentioned in the same breathe makes them all worth considering if you can afford them........
Enjoy the tunes! |
cool, jd. i hope to hear those goodies along with your cables one day! i checked out your system and i think our sound preference is pretty similar. of course, i have a somewhat pared down version, but it's working well for me now...i just wish i hadn't sold my sa-201....oh well, no problems, no worries. this is a great hobby (like i keep telling my wife when more boxes arrive: 'it's a "hobby" and hobbies don't end until they're no fun anymore.') or as yodi berra sez, it ain't over 'til its ended! enjoy the tunes! best, art |
Here we are. What a lot of passionate whorls of information. Thanks a gabillion! I may be a Marx Brother when i say 'Hooray for Captain Spalding, Horray Horray Hooray!'
I had an all too brief time listening to the Rapture PC's in my system before sparks were litterally flying. My fault. Forgot to turn off my amp while exchanging cords. That was the point though....exchanging cords.... Too bad it fried my amps toroid. But in the end I have a modded preamp, amp, and power condiitioner! So, audiophile life is good. But, I've been away and the thread is thriving!
The Rapture PC unseated many cords for my Plinius P8. Audience, Airsine, BMI's (although the hammerhead is the hands down best for my cary 306/200 and tied for the modded aes ae3 djh sig), ESP Essence, Virtual Dynamics, Stealth Cloude 99 and Dream, etc. It's a long list, but it's a long hobby.
The Rapture's sound aptly follows it name; fully rendered stage and detail, effortless nuance, soft authoratative control, perfect pace, wide extension (my wife says a perfect kick drum and bass), and a kind of release of tremendous energy that you can catch without burning your hand like Ben Franklin did on his key. That said, the Revelation II has a little more energy, and, well, it's a bit more dough, but I miss it....and I wish my wallet had absolutely no sway over my decisions, but...They are both great cords. I like the Rev II in my system a bit better than the Rapture, but the Rapture on source components.
Anyway, your ears are your judge, but I'd give these cords a listen..... if you're listening. It's hard to find the time, but the time is hard to give up aid't it!
Enjoy the tunes!
BUD |
OOOPS! I meant I liked the Rev II a bit better on my AMP and the Rapture on my source components. But, the Rapture is still fantastic on my amp as well....sorry for the poor editing. |
Yep, bobf, eden's look like their coming up, eh? pant pant woof. i have a strange aural pavlovian response to new iterations of the gabriel stuff....and drooling from my ears is unbecoming, but done in the privacy of my own home. steve was kind enough to let me demo the rev II pc a while back and i have been wiping my cheeks continuously since that time.
i have finally been doing some goofy grinned listening to my system since my amp got back late yesterday. yummy, the rapture is pretty damn delicious on it. it's sound is really captivating....i can't stand to keep typing while the tunes are playing.....later! |
So, I thought I would post my impressions of the Rapture I/C's, but Steve beat me to it and posted them on his new ad. Pretty much all the comments on his ad are mine and they pretty much sum it up. They are the best cables I have heard. I have not heard the indra or high end transparent, but I have heard stealth metacarbon and GS50/50, high end gen3 siltech, analysis plus golden oval, etc. (a more extensive list of my cable exposure is posted earlier in this thread). And, the rapture is really, really good....heads and shoulders better than anything I have heard. Dead neutral. Super revealing yet silk on bare skin. Goosebump stuff. See my comments on the ad....
As a matter of course; I am not associated with marketing Gabriel Gold cables beyond being a bigbigbig fan....I have never even met Steve, but we have exchanged a lot of emails...I am not a shill for him, but do consider him a friend.
I also use the rapture pc's on my pre and amp. I'll try to post more thorough comments about them later. And, I am, for the first time in a decade, really feeling finished with cabling.....except, i am upgrading my sound app xe-12 to a reference level and will try the stealth m-5000, elrod eps3s, and dream state lucid on it....then finito, bandito.....again....
My system is posted and up to date here on audiogon if you care...
Enjoy the tunes!
Budburma |
Bobf- I'm kinda sorta thinkin' you sorta kinda just did!
And, while I'm at the thinkin' thing, I thought would reprint and edit my yammering a bit, so my thoughts on the Rapture I/C's would be more easily accessed right here on this thread. No need to use that channel changer, surf about...front row, ba-baby.
The soundstage is mesmerizing; it has released the grandeur of my bmi pc's whose stage is up to this point unbeatable in my experience. The black silence between well defined placement of 3d images is bible black and starless....with the deep stage set behind my speakers and extending well beyond my speakers side to side. Great fun.
Exciting, transporting, and relaxing, it actually feels like an environment is created rather than a room recreated. No grain, flawless pace and wide extension with shimmering highs and deep natural taut bass. The midrange is natural and inviting, liquid and rich without being syrupy. Singer's breaths are promises whispered in your ear.
The micro dynamics and revealing of inner detail is astonishing. And, with the detail revealed so astutely and naturally combined with the head bobbing and toe-tapping macrodynamics, they seem to make bare the composer's intent.
Since you mentioned jazz, I use Coltrane's Ballads as one of my test cd's....you can hear the spittle on the reed...and there is a tremolo at the very end of each note on the first cut i have never heard before. Breathtaking. The piano is across half the stage and the whisper and control of the brushes gets my goofy grin cemented in place.
The attack/decay and sustain is perfect on emphasis and without exaggeration. Really, I was perfectly satisfied with the Extremes and Revelations, but now they're a bit spoiled for me as the rapture is upon us! Make me a mormon and save my ancestors, they are without compare in my experience.
They are the BEST, period. I have no idea how to put a price on them....they're priceless.
Thththththat's All Folks!
Enjoy the tunes! |
Hey John!
It is a comfy zone. I think we are on the same slow and majestic train....pulling out of the same station to never return. WooooooooooooWhew.
Best,
Art |
I have to agree with Hiernote and John Mcgrogan in that gold is great, especially in an amalagam. Too bad the price of it is soaring! I think that the Raptures' addition of platinum (not too cheap either) to the gold/silver/copper amalgam adds some dimensionality to the stage and separation to the instruments that is very striking. And , the effortless detail is flabbergasting. I found the same to be true with the platinum containing BMI power cables.
I am very much looking forward to hearing from rja about his experience with balanced Raptures. I am using two Rapture pc's (pre and amp) and two Rapture ic's (cdp-->pre-->amp) and am still blown away everyday with every recording i have listened to since i've had them. such extreme detail without any glare at all and the natural timbre and accurate, but soulful presentation is as exciting and heart stopping as it is sexy and alluring.
my system is a sultry shedevil minx! maybe a little strong on the athropomorphising, but as much as i love my wife and 5 year old el boyo fantastico, i find myself hoping they're not home so i get some quiet listening time in. so, now it's almost sinful how much pleasure i get from my stereo AND my family. how good can life get!
over and out (for now).
lest i repeat ad infinitum: enjoy the tunes! |
ok, so that was a little over the top. i was trying to think of what, if anything, might make me wish my family was not home for a few hours and that's where my mind went. off the cuff and right out of hand. made me laugh though. on the other hand, there made be an entrepeneurial opportunity for audio accessories.....naaaaah, that's getting too sordid.
hey john, you think you might want to exchange ic's and compare hybrids to raptures? i may be heading down your way in a couple of weeks....shoot me an email if that sounds good.
best,
art |
You know, I also have a pair of the new Edens and they are a hard to beat bargain at their price. They share the emotional involvement of listening to music through the Extremes, but have less midrange bloom. They don't carry the detail of the Raptures (what cable does?!), but they are delicate and tonally accurate. Their sound is very close to neutral if a tiny bit warm....which i like... with great extension and bass control, no glare in the highs and a toe-tapping evolved and involving midrange. And, they offer a nice sized soundstage with excellent instrument imaging/placement and good air.
They have that gabriel thang of perfect pacing, great dynamics and are a very impressive entry level cable for steve's line. if i had never heard the raptures, i would have replaced my extremes with these in a skinny new york minute...actually, i did just that! they go from pre to headphone amp and will to the phono amp as well....unless i can get up the scratch for some more raptures....reachin' for my wallet already... |
rja-
i have the exact same sensitivities and system issues and run screaming from silveras anathema in my system, and, i think your analysis is apt for the rapture with the exception that, for me (of course), the differences between the rapture and the revelation are pretty out there in the open in my system particularly regarding soundstage, air and, mostly, that ineffable thing of involvement...and, you're right, it's hard to describe, so i am going to sit and listen and think and nap and do it all over again until it becomes clear and i'll get back to you with my thoughts......i can say that i intellectually appreciated the revelation, but my heart never sang out with or for them while my heart is an open chakra for musical experience with the rapture..... |
It won't hurt to keep them in the same direction, but most directional cables are directional because of their extrusion during manufacture or the single crystal metals they use. I guess you could argure that the metal would align on a molecualr level according to electrical flow. Makes ome intuitive sense anyway.
Bobf-How about those speaker cables? Crazy good? how long of a run do you have? I am using the Stealth MLT's, how do they compare?
Thanks! |
Hey Rja-
Good for you and your wallet! For me the differences were not subtle...and mostly in the vein that Bobf mentions.... but that what makes a horse race.
As a matter of fact, I preferred a mixture of the Extreme and the Revelation to all Revelations. In a nutshell, I love the delicacy and detail of the Rev's, but missed the soul of the Extremes. It was like the difference between listening with your heart versus your mind. I also think the sounstage is bigger with the Extremes and that's something I really enjoy. The Raptures brought it all home in spades (like the familiarity of the musty smell of your granddad's sweater in the fall...comfy and rich with closed-eyed memory and emotion...but I digress) along with the sonic improvements I mention above.
Same family, as Bobf says, but a different animal...and evolutionary leap...a genetic shift instead of the normal drift...don't get me started on intelligent design; after all, i am inertia man!....but i digress (again!).
Bobf-
I have the Raptures in my main chain and a pair of Edens to my headphone amp and a pair of Extremes to my Squezebox. I would love to have all Raptures, but just can't swing it right now. I do prefer the Edens a bit over the Extremes as they offer the same soulful and natural presentation without the bloom....All the attributes are still there; detail, extension, control, pace, clarity and spatial presentation, but with enough less bloom that it seems to be a quieter background. Definitely a killer bargain and great cable. If you like a bit of midrange bloom or your system veers to the clinical, the Extreme may be your best choice.
No telling really, as rja's experience reveals. Listen and learn and let your your ears be your guide. (might just save you some money!) some ears, like spock's, really point the way (might just save you some time!) and other's just keep hungering....especially as they fall into the aging category....wearing slippers and a bathrobe....and an old sweater....
BMW 3 series? Zippy! Maybe the 5 series?....no m's in the 7 series, although i saw an m6 on the highway that had me drooling on my tie. Audio is definitely a less expensive hobby; at least that's what I keep telling my wife!
Gotta run, enjoy the tunes! |
Or get on the true HD CD Chesky train....'linin' track' |
I have to agree with Bobf....and his assessments. I have heard all of the GG versions as well. The Raptures are sooooo good, that I just don't have the urge to keep going....But, as Oscar Wilde said "I can resist anything except temptation itself." Start with getting the Raptures cooked and save some pennies. If Steve says they are better, I would have ot take him at his word and give it a try. Gotta' love the apples! |
Yes, I have all Rapture I/C's in my system and have no intention of ever changing. There are no more superlatives left in my lexicon to express how fantastic I think these I/C's are in every way. They have been in my system with both tube and ss gear and their performance has never waivered from the best I have heard. Period-o. End of story. Never looked back. Sold American. Buy 'em!
I have tried all the Stealth line of I/C's except the Indra. While they all had their individual virtues, in the end they didn't deliver the entire sonic and emotional package. Their virtues were many, but I eventually I had to move on.
The Hybrid MLT's are a different story. They are amazing speaker cables and a bargain at what you can get them for at used prices here on A-gon. BUT, the Raptures have me captured; and a happy prisoner I am! I am saving my pennies and measuring the length I need and making way for a trial of those bad boys. I think Steve's products are unmatched and far and away the best.
It's unusual for one designer to be able to make IC's. PC's and SC's that all sit on the same excelsior pedestal breathing such a rarified sonic atmosphere. I use a combination of BMI Hammerhead Gold and Rapture PC's. Both are amazing with the Rapture being a little more forward in my system. It has brought the most out of my Plinius P8 than any other cord (and I have tried close to 2 dozen). Detail, pace, balance, staging and emotional impact are all imbued with the same nuanced palate that makes Gabriel goodies the most delicious gourmet aural experience I have had the pleasure of having. Glorious Gluttony!
It may well be that when I can afford the SC's that all will fall into sync and the full Rapture will be upon me! Can't wait! |
Ok, guys, the LP's are not up for grabs yet....
And, Hhilcoat, we are all schizophrenic to a certain extent. BUT, my experience with the raptures was and is the same. Clarity, nuance, realism. Sweet fresh air. It's all about the breath in the music. The Raptures really made my system come to life and have continued to do that through a fair amount of equipment changes. It's nice when your heart is beckoned and you can answer the call without fear of rejection.
Alright, that's it for now....starting to digress too far into the ephemera.
Later!
Oh, the CD2, is pretty phenomenal with astounding detail, minimal and diminishing digital hash after 6 hours, expansive soundstage and separation at first blush. More after the 6-8 hr/day for a week or do breaking in. All Rapture cabled, even PC (better than my BMI HH Gold Mk3 at the moment.....time will tell).
Enough the tunes! |
Hey man, you copping my tag line!? just shucking and jivin you, john. i have to hit the hay, but will interject that the rapture speaker cable is equal, if not superior, in upgrade capacity for a (my) system than the interconnects. more later....g'nite and
enjoy the tunes yourownbadself! |
Jc-
so, i am a rapture fan from a ways back and would say you are right on the money with clarity and digital revealing. i have come to believe that tubes are the way to make it really happen right here and now and a server or equivalent with tube dac or cdp/dac is the road to get there (here?).
i had an audio aero capitole mkii se in my sights and went for an ayon cd2. it will also be my dac. check out my system....i just updated it. the digital front from mac on is pretty amazing and the cd2 will jettison the cary when it arrives.
you air right; the raptures are air and you have to have air. that and a burrito will get you through the day.
save your pennies and gather the rapture around you. safe passage home whispered the old lady from the nursing home wearing a bishop's mitre. what i mean is, you obviously have great ears and appreciation and can find the solution for your musical joy. you can listen, hear and see.
my favorite combo was a plinius sa201 with an aes djh sig pre with nos tube and dynaudio 2.8's with the rapture ic's. i wish i had heard it with the rapture speaker wire. save your pennies. killer. more of the same, much more.
if you are using separates, you might try that pre, but as you already are aware, synergy is important.....the dodd battery pre has always seemed like a good choice to get some tubes in there.
email for some digital server/hardrive if you care to.
best regards and enjoy the tunes////// |
Sir John-
Yeah, the Stealth's were hard to beat and impossible at the price, but I had a little dough going to an integrated and Steve let me trake in some cables. The Rapture speakers wires are just better than the Stealth's.
I was definitely knowced out by the Triton, but I have an old house with central air and having a window unit in the same room to cool it from the Triton in the summer just wouldn't do. No sir, no way, no how. Still an absolutely amazing integrated.
The Karan is very good and close to the Triton, but tubes is tubes....'nuf said. Having come to that conclusion as many have, it's nice to report that my wife did actually come down and expound on how nice the Karan sounds. Loud and clear. Good to go.
And the all black eastern euro darth vader look of the Karan with the Ayon and the piano black Dynaudio's is, er, Darth! Not in keeping with the house but pretty cool and disappears nicely....visually and sonically.
I sort of modified and stole the tag line from Brian at BMI anyway.....no worries......and happily pass it on to all who feel it.
enjoy the tunes!
Best,
Art |
Your thoughts and experiences are el perfecto, Juan. I am loving less stuff...but, while my downsizing journey has freed up a lot of space and cable confusion, I think with the cd2 i may not have saved much dough. But the satisfaction is tremendous with the simplicity and i truly feel i have given up very little in the sonic realm. clean and happy. i will miss my vinyl, but in the end all my tunes are a gesture away and all is well in gotham and denmark and hopefully yugoslavia and our own slice of planetary pie....
best, art |
hmmmm richard.....tempting.....i just sold off my main table, but still have an old sota moonbeam that might take a liking the the aes.....your closet feeling a little full? i still a couple thousand of albums....can't melt 'em down and sell 'em by weight.... |
Hey Richard....closet feeling full? i still have my old sota moonbeam and a couple thousand records....and an open input on the karan....
C'mon Glory, sharing. What up with the JPS? |
Here are some notes on the Ayon CD-2 that recently replaced my longtime love, the Cary 306/200. First, this is my system as it now stands:
Gear:
Ayon CD-2
Karan KAI-180
Squeezebox Duet, Bolder modified and with power
Dynaudio Confidence C-1
Sound Applications XE-12S modded to near Linestage
Cables: Gabriel Gold Rapture RCA Interconnects and Speaker Cables, Von
Gaylord Chincnilla Sig. RCA Digital
Power Cords: BMI Hammerhead Gold Mk1 and Mk3
Gabriel Gold Rapture on and off the CD-2 (see below)
Of note, the Karan is a relatively new addition and I had only a short time to listen to it with the Cary, but did listen thoughtfully to the tunes I have used most often for analysis of gear in the past. And, here are those tunes:
David Gray: The Ep's 92-94
Shine, Lover
John Hiatt: Crossing Muddy Waters
Crossing Muddy Waters, What Do we Do Now
Dave Matthews Band: Under the Table and Dreaming
Satellite, Pay for What You Get, #34
Ryan Adams: Heartbreaker
May Winding Wheel
Ben Harper: Fight for Your Mind
Please Me Like You Want To
John Coltrane Quartet: Ballads
Say It (over and Over Again)
Mike Doughty: Skittish
The Only Answer, Looks
Steve Earle: Train a Comin'
Goodbye, Northern Winds, Rivvers of Babylon, Tecumsah
Vallley
Sometimes Why:
MIddle, Hush Child, Let Down, Hallowell
The soundstage is enormous and fabulous and as good or better than the Cary, while the imaging less precise, but in a very nice way. The images are rounder, a little softer, and larger. With the Karan, the Cary's images were somehow diminutive on a large stage....while that left a lot of black background, it seemed less real than the Ayon. The notes are true on attack, but the decay feels a little attenuated.
The detail is comparable or better, but since the images are larger, there is less separation on vocal harmonies in close proximity. So, with more crowded or complex parts of music there is some congestion that is not
so pleasing.
It is a very revealing player, so the recording is stripped of any corrective blurring or bad production for better or worse. And, forget about MP3's, they sound terrible and suck any way.
The ergonomics suck.....Holding on to the slow cooker like top while changing cd's is and true pain in
the ass.
It is overall a more musical player with a sweet midrange (more about that below) and bass is very realisitic and well controlled. No bloat, but a ton of energy overall. This abundance of energy presents itself as this nagging bit of forward nature in the upper mids. Truth be told, that is actually always nagging me in my system and in the end it is probably the Dynaudio's fault They are accurate and unforgiving and sound great when piled on with clean power, but require reigning in to avoid listener fatigue. It's their (and
my) specific conundrum of needing gobs of power and liking a tubish
warmth.
The Ayon does not add the tubish warm I was hoping for, but it has so many good attributes that I am going to try a quad of '80's Rusky DR tubes and see if that will bring it on home.
So, with that aggressive sonic trait demand in mind, the BMI cord is a better match in my system for the player....the Rapture cord has a small of that sonic signature and doesn't work as well right now. But, the new tubes could change things and I would venture is a great match for a system with less
tendency towards the aggressive or one that is more laid back and needs a little push towards 'coming alive'.
The DAC portion is very nice with the same caveats as above and is where I really here the MP3 disgusting hashy stuff.
So, overall, I like the CD-2 better than my Cary, but am not blown away by it. I am anxious to hear it with the NOS tubes and see what they brig to the table.
And, to be fair, I have been under the weather for a few months and am bringing a less than optimal attitude and overall gestalt of life to the listening table so my best ears aren't on. So much pig's guts on the table.
Like the man said, "I've been down but not like this before." Don't want to be a whiner, but really and I am holding my own, but for the most part hunkering down in the bosom of my nuclear family wile my friend's are awaiting my inevitable bobbing back to the surface. That's gonna' happen
I am sure, just in my waiting chrysalis stage.....patient and expectant of beauty.
Besides, my dog needs a new knee more than I need a new CDP. New knee is good news.
Those are the notes from my very own underground. |
I have the same info, Bobf. Trading out the tubes is a pretty tedious task that requires a lot of care.....I did it but may have dislodged one of the caps on one of the boards....I'll have to get it checked out before I can give it a listen. (Rats!)
Thanks, John. I'll have nore info in a month or so and a more definite forecast.....either 2 or 8 more months to go and I should be a-bloomin'.
The NOS DR's are all from '86 and well matched, so I think they'll be excellent, Darealjaydee. I believe that you are right and hope to find out for myself as soon as I can clear my booboo mentioned above.
Peace out and enjoy the tunes! |
A quick follow up on the CD2 with the NOS DR tubes. My oops in installing them was more of my own concern and less of a problem than my paranoia originally portrayed.
The player is now different animal, a pure joy. All the excessive energy is tamed and the microdynamics under control. Huge soundstage with a gentle and warm yet dynamic and detailed presentation. Hard to say 'reinvents your whole cd collection', but it is fun to relisten to things with it. The decays are now extended and I'm really not finding any deficits to my ear with the reproduction from this player. The DAC portion holds up the same high standard.....
Hopefully, I can get more out about it later next month. If anyone has any specific curiosities, shoot me a email.
Enjoy the tunes! |
Looks like Steve is back and up and running with a website.....gabrielgoldcables dot com. Looks good and has some new goodies to boot! |
The dog got his knee and is running like his little inner puppy is set free. My chrysalis is parting and I am emerging ready to take wing with the new year. Thanks for your thoughts, John, they helped for sure.
So, the AMR CD77 took the Ayon CD2 to the mat and the Ayon never got back up. A great player for all the reasons above, but the AMR has all the dynamics, micro detail, spacing, staging, etc that the Ayon offers (which is substantial) but also adds a bit warmth to the sound and more 3-d roundness to the images into the mix that I personally REALLY like! It is, in short, and IMHO, a more human and lifelike presentation. Absolutely thrilling.
And, the USB input is reclocked right away to remove jitter and sounds pretty much indistinguishable from the CDP itself.
More details and in depth description later. The chrysalis, she calls. |
So, auditioning the Reflection...why not, eh?!
The Reflection offers everything the Rapture does that been desevedly ballyhooed in a long and splendiferous parade of comments in a number o threads: clarity, detail, speed, accurate pacing, huge soundstage, lovely timbre, midrange to live in, well laid out transients and tonal balance......well, here's where the difference starts.
The overall tonal balance is improved by giving all the players and the notes they play more presence so you can listen raptly to any and/or all of them individually or as a whole. The 'non-main event' players and notes are more present and given more their due as part of the piece.
The bass is deeper and tighter by a fair margin, but most astounding is the highs and the impeovement in the decays of individual note and the accuracy of the transient...they slap you when they oughta' and carress when they should! The highs are improved in extension by not rolling off at all
and the decays fade slowly and delicately into deep listening space oblivion.
I honestly didn't notice that comparative shortcoming in the Rapture previously. Although it was pointed out to me by jmcgrogan2 when directly compared to the Jade Gold Hybrid, I still preferred the Rapture for its other strengths.
That extension is especially noticeable with cymbals.
And, the breath at the end of vocal. Actually, I think it is the breath. The Reflection just breath life into the music.
All the detail of the Rapture is there, but improved with more inner separation of notes....like different cowbells or percussion blocks right next to each other are obivous. The microdynamics are more revealed and you can just see more deeply into the recording.
Honestly, I feel a bit chagrined with myself for once again calling one of Gabriel Gold's cable the best I have heard....but there it is. I really love the Rapture, but the Reflection is the next step towards actually leaving the atmosphere and floating in space. I'll have to live with myself. And with the Reflection. You might think about inviting it into your home, too.
In the end when taken as a whole it offers an emotional experience and becomes ineffable. You are just inexorably drawn into the center of the music like a molecular swerve.
My wife who has much better ears than I do actually said: "If anyone asks you why you're and audiophile, make them listen to this." ("Always listen to the woman."-Wesley Snipes in White Men Can't Jump). This "this" was The Dave Matthews Band's playing Pay for What you Get from Under the Table and Dreaming. And it was trasporting. Mesmerizing.
I really haven't been able to stop listening to that song.....
More later....I gotta' get back to the tunes!
Oh, yeah, I also auditioned them with the Rapture R speaker wire. I have a pair of Reflection IC's and a set of the R SC's on order! Comments on the SC's to come..... |
Rja-
I don't think you'll look back, my friend....I remembered someone's quote on this thread about the Rev2 being like clear glass and the Rapture being clear air which is why I went with a space theme. The clarity is pure, clear space. Only music. The Reflection is a marked sonic step up. And, at just a little more given the intro price, it is hard to resist....and if you can reach it, you should just do it. No question.
Enjoy the tunes! |
I had a chance to hear the Rapture r Ic and thought I would post a bit about it.
One you hear the GG Raptures, it's a pretty exhilarating experience. The speed, precisione, clarity, presence, imaging and stage make that experience pretty damn 'da' band is here' real. The only knock on the pre revision version was a tiny bit of roll off in the highs and lows. And, it's a tiny knock.
At the time, the nearest cable to it for me was the Jade Gold Hybrid which did not have the roll off, but was slower, darker and a little mushy in the images. Deeper stage, though. The Rapture was far and away my choice of cable given all its other virtues.
The 'r' version is, however, a pretty large sonic leap. Kind of shocking in a way after falling all over myself regarding the Rapture itself. So, the 'r' is all of the Rapture with its previous slight deficiencies in extension and roll of eliminated with a few other improvements thrown in for good measure.....It shows deeper and tighter bass and, most especially noticeable with the loss of roll off is a wildly extended decay of individual notes. The separation and staging are improved and the transients, microdetail and dynamics are more astutely revealed.
The Reflection is, to my mind, less of a leap from the 'r', but offers a bit more of ALL the same improvements from the Rapture to the 'r' with one caveat.....The presence and emotional impact of the music is really improved. The sum of the parts being, once again, greater than the whole.
And, here is where my normal zest for language and description is left twisting in the wind like a lonely doily on a bare tree....The Refection just sounds better and draws you into the recording more. I listen a lot with my wife and, as she said, "I don't know, they're both amazing, I just like the Reflection better." So, while the qualities are the same, it is a small overall improvement in all areas over the 'r', an open armed welcoming into the recording.
Corny, I know, but that's how I sees (hears) it. And, at this level of cable, I believe that to be a significant achievement and definitely enough for me to stick with the Reflection even though I have no knock at all on the Rapture r.
The Rapture r speaker cables are also the best I've heard While notb as much of a sonic leap as the IC's, they are still a very substantial improvement over the previous rendition for all the same qualities and reasons above, just not the same level of impact as the IC's. FWIW, in my system, IC's have always had a larger impact on the sound than the SC's.
The last pair of speaker cables I owned before the Raptures's were the Stealth MLT....I have not heard as many speaker cables as interconnects, but have heard enough to recognize their impact and importance to a system. The Rapture r's really sound very beautiful to my ear.....better than any I have had.
Right now, I am using the Reflection IC's with the Rapture r SC's and am feeling for the first time that I can and should spend more time and effort on equipment and power isolation and eventually room tweaks.....For the first time I feel at the end of my wiring (and equipment) road for the major portion of my system (digital server end notwithstanding).....I guess we all know how that goes though.
Take it easy, remember holidays are fun and have a happy time with them... and, as always, enjoy the tunes! |
John-
My health is back on track and the holidays thick with unfettered relief and joy. Thanks for your well wishes and the same for you and yours!
All my best, Art |
Hey you Tweaker!
I have yet to find a better ic than the gabriel gold line.....even the entry level leaves a lot of competitors behind. I would say to my ears and in my particular system, but I just too a pair of Rapture r's and a pair of Passions over to a friend's place who has a less refined system (and completely different from end to end...although all ss like mine) and he was transmogrified into a cable believer. He was blown away, both joyous and saddened at once as his paradigm of aftermarket cabling making no difference crumbled. And, he couldn't stand the Raptures because they were too revealing of the shortcomings in his system. His words, not mine! He loved the Passions, but wants to build his system to accomodate the Rapture R's.
That was his experience...and mine has been very little different. The Rapture R's raised the sonic bar as have all of Steve's iterations to this date. I hear and see music pouring forth in a nuanced and meditative way that is transporting. It's weird, but I can't wait to get home to listen. FWIW, I use Rapture r sc's and ic's and they just catapult each other into a realm of natural sonic reproduction and stage that is so satisfying that I just don't tire of it. |
