Fuses that matter.

Bryon,

Next go round try the liquid fuses that i have seen advertised here of late.

Just be sure to not spring a leak.

If you can't hear much difference with that one then i would punt for sure. I would expect a sound that is more, how to describe, well liquid. Duh!

Or not. :-)

"lol...Mapman, ah c'mon brother, were all mental someway or another :P"

You got that right...brother (pythons flexing...)!

"Time comes when design engineer has to be shot so that design can be released to production"

I like that!

The fact is that in the real world, designs have target dates and/or deadlines so product can be brought to market and designers move on to the next big issue.

Of course, nobody ever said that audiophiles reside in anything even slightly resembling the real world, so whatever turns you on!

Bryon,

Hopefully the meditation headset has a reliable and good sounding fuse in it! :-)

Cheers!

In the words of the immortal Dr. Zachary Smith:

" Oh dear! We're doomed! Doomed, I say!"

"hen I decided to clean and apply Progold to every contact in the system, including the contacts on the power cords and IEC inlets. Now THAT was audible. "

When it comes to electronics, especially contacts, clean/conductive is always good. Nothing crazy there!

"Hey with all this continuing banter about nothing.When do you guys have time to LISTEN to the components you know so well, let alone tweek them "

I can only speak for myself. I often banter while I listen.

I'd much rather listen than dabble with fuses or much of anything else at present.

I try to carve out as much time as I can to listen and usually manage several hours per week which is not enough, but hey I have 2 kids, a wife, a house, a job and a dog among other things to juggle so we gotta get our priorities straight.

:)

"Logically, what can we conclude from all of this evidence?"

Some people hear differences with fuses that they like.

That's about it.

Also geoffkait taking so much time to push the concept tells me to stay away.

Kijanki,

I hope for the benefit of the custom fuse owners that the makers of these care as much about making sure the fuses serve their primary function properly as a prerequisite to whatever specific they might do to make them "sound better", but there is little or nothing to indicate they do. That alone disqualifies fancy fuses to me. I'll seek to invest my money in power tweaks elsewhere thanks.

I would not use a fuse marketed exclusively under the premise of better sound for this reason even if someone gave them to me for free and I actually thought they might sound better.

"It's seems similar to a religious doctrine. "

Fusism would be a good name I suppose?

Nebulous things like this that defy scientific models will inevitably be viewed from a dogmatic perspective by each I suppose.

What else is there to say?

"I really don't understand what drives some people."

I can only speak for myself. In my case, in a thread like this, what drives me is to help get all the facts out on the table so people can make their own educated decisions.

"For a discussion about a controversial tweak, I would say that this thread is well above average in its substantive content."

I would agree. Lots of good info here to help people make a decision.......

I may be biased but I would tend to judge the "skeptics" as being more unbiased in their approach than the "believers".

No surprise. I hope they are also right! The skeptics, well, they are .... skeptical, at least to-date.

Personally, I am not convinced yet and do not care enough to do anything more than talk about it at present. I do not doubt though that some differences can be heard with some fuses in some cases. Maybe when the time comes to buy a fuse, spare or otherwise, I will consider some of the fancy fuse options. Dunno. I'll worry about it when the situation justifies it for me. I like how my gear sounds and still have other tweaks next in line to try at some point perhaps before I will ever get to fuses.

"One camp has tried it and heard differences while the other camp hasn't and doesn't know one way or the other and you give more credence to the one that hasn't tried it?"

Yes. Absolutely.

The camp that doesn't know if/when a fuse will make a significant difference clearly indicates they do not know and point out reasons why the conclusions of those who have tried might not apply in all cases.

Those who are convinced get all up in arms when any facts that might dispute what they heard or think they heard are presented.

I do not say "think they heard" in any derogatory sense. One can only report what they think they hear. But the fact is that others may think they hear something totally different, even if in fact both are hearing the same thing. That is indisputable (I think)?

"Yeah, that's indisputable all right, if you believe in pretzel logic. "

GEoff, I suspect you are the master of that!

GEoff wrote:

"Mapman's wrote,

Yeah, that's indisputable all right, if you believe in pretzel logic. "

Geoff, you wrote that, not me.

Let's at a minimum at least get the facts regarding who says what correct!

Twilight Zone!

Nothing more is likely to get resolved anytime soon regarding fuses and sound quality.

So the scientific bottom line as I see it: try it if you like it! Tweak vendors will rejoice for sure!

Nothing new there.

Bryon, I'm postponing all my fuse experiments even further if this is the thanks one gets for trying to be unbiased and scientific in their method! :)

Geoff,

Fwiw i think you already said that!

Also, just to keep things in proper perspective, you can probably find 8 guys in the world who believe almost anything and are willing to preach to others, especially if it is their job.

Especially if it's their job and it's at least as hard or harder for anyone else to prove them wrong.

Games people play....

Hilarious?

Deceptive?

I don't get it.

Heavy, maybe but rings true.

Let me activate my really clever little egg timer that i've been tinkering with to recalibrate the time decoding of my thoughts and see if that helps me get it maybe.

GEoff,

Risk assessment is a small part of what I do technically actually.

But I am always glad to provide a good laugh!

I am not an EE ( though I do have expertise in other areas of engineering) but what AL says makes sense. I would tend to think that if a fuse did make too much difference in sound quality that this might be an indicator of certain design elements lacking elsewhere.

Just because every component in the signal path can have an effect on the sound does not mean it should.

I'd like to think that my gear performs at a certain reputable level as long as quality components are used (including fuse). SOme audiophile fuses might qualify, some might not, but I do not even want to have to be concerned about how my fuse sounds, just that it does its job reliably and does not negatively impact what the design overall is supposed to accomplish.

"Well, let me ask you, does any of the stuff you do technically give you any insights to say, tiny metal bowl resonators, Schumann frequency generators, vibration isolation, Shun Mook ebony discs, mind matter interaction, the physics of quantum dots, the physics of CD lasers, quantum teleportation, or the physics of electricity in wires."

Absolutely. Start up some appropriate threads and lets chat.

"Is't it a little premature to write fuses off in light of all the positive press and customer testimony?"

Geof, if you read my posts, you'll see that I do not write fuses off. I acknowledge that they might make a difference. I just put them way down on the list of potential tweaks I would make just to improve sound.

IF my gear does not sound right and I isolate a problem to a particular piece, then a fuse replacement is probably something I would consider. I would replace with a good quality fuse recommended by the maker most likely. It may or may not be an "audiphile" fuse. If the new fuse works, I will loose no sleep thereafter until the next "real" issue pops up.

Sorry, I have better things to do than continuously tweak in hopes of better sound with little or no basis for decision making other than some things worked for some.

Others may differ in their priorities. More power to them!

Not sure how/why you would take issue with this. There are many out there willing to try the tweak of the month. They will probablly end up happy as well as long as the result is not negative. Not to hard to accomplish with fuses IMHO.

"Not sure how/why you would take issue with this. "

Well, actually I do in that you are a vendor of tweaks that at worse probably do nothing which is good enough for many I suppose.

Let's talk about "minor" tweaks for a minute.

1) by definition the effects of a minor tweak will be minor or subtle probably at best.

2) some minor tweaks may in fact do nothing. THese have less downside than tweaks that actually do something. That something could be judged better or worse.

3) Tweaks that do nothing have less potential downside. Therefore, fewer are likely to be disappointed.

Of course non of these facts regarding minor tweaks will be relevant when my funky little fuses hit the market. THey will simply be just awesome and not minor in any way! Just wait and see/hear :).

I suspect Geoff's comments and opinions expressed are easily attributable to his vested interest as a vendor of what many consider some of the most "controversial" and unexplainable audio tweaks in existence.

My only explanation for Geoff's products is that he is either from the future or from some other planet whose technology is beyond the comprehension of even the most brilliant and highly educated audiophiles in existence today.

Personally, were I a philanthropist in similar shoes, I would think I would seek to use my unequaled knowledge to solve bigger problems than the ones the rest of the audio industry has not already solved, but that is just me.

"I got some of the new Synergistic Research fuses in. I may get back about them, if you boys behave."

As a matter of fact, fuses from reputable companies that specialize in a wide variety of power quality solutions other than fuses are the ones that are most likely to catch my interest.

GEoff,

No I mean't what I said, not your spin on it. What could be clearer?

You're free to fire back but please do not put your thoughts in my mouth. Work on getting the facts straight!

I would not limit any vendor that disclose and acknowledge their financial interests in any way. Its all part of the learning process. Did you do that? Or was it left to others to make the connection?

Sorry, Geoff. I'd consider that a form of obfuscation so it does not seem appropriate to me. You are much better suited to the task than me. I'd recommend picking a specific topic per thread not 9 seemingly random ones at once for best results.

Science Fiction.

Machina Dynamica.

Has there ever been a more natural pairing?

Once you've exhausted the possibilities based on science, science fiction is where it is at I suppose.

"Yes I know full well about priorities but it seems you are posting more and therefore possibly listening to music less."

Nope. Listening to music and working out take up the majority of my leisure time. Posting is a distant third and does not take up much time. I squeeze it in when I can.

I'm already in the listening room as much as possible, but will keep the fuse suggestion in my pocket for when the time comes.

I recently added a faux leather recliner. My sound quality went down. Before dabbling with my fuses, I may try replacing it with a real leather chair for better sound first + a fashion statement.

I will not ask how Music Direct would determine that particular state of the returned cow.

Just when you think all the controversy regarding fuses has been settled This happens!

"With a 30 day, no risk, money-back guarantee; no one has an excuse not to try them."

I am not an EE so I often do not feel qualified to determine valid replacement parts in my gear.

Plus the fuses I have sound plenty good to me.

Those would be my excuses in a nutshell.

Rodman, by your logic, everyone should try every product out there that offers a no risk money-back guarantee.

Obviously many do not care enough or feel comfortable doing their own tweaks of this nature in which case they should stay away.

Otherwise, nice guarantee.....have at it!

Yes, I also brought up the potential risks with replacing fuses just for better sound a ways back in this thread as well.

When one is addicted to something, like the continuous pursuit of better sound, I suppose one is more disposed to take a gamble and roll the dice.

Besides, if the gear goes up sometimes afterwards who's to say the fuse was the cause.

I'm still with Modjeski. I can get the sound I want without overriding my vendors technical decision regarding the fuse used. Just because I can replace a part does not mean I should unless I really know exactly what I am doing.

To those who have and continue to enjoy better sound, more power to you. Just be sure you know what the hell you are doing before customizing expensive and complex electronic gear.

"Perhaps sonic differences would even be found between multiple examples of supposedly identical fuses."

Good point (again)!

Hopefully, someone out there convinced expensive fuses are a good deal might listen this time.

As pointed out earlier, fuses are "Sacrificial" resistance devices. Their very purpose is to fail under certain circumstances. There is no rule that says the failure is a binary event. Intermediate states of degradation is likely. Periodic replacement with any good quality fuse of the proper specs may be a wise move if sound quality is suspect in some way.

Any fuse in good condition may sound similarly better compared to an older fuse, regardless of cost or how constructed. It all depends!

This is my last post about fuses! It's been real.....

The gold fuses actually make sense to me in terms of potential technical advantage. Assuming they are certified somehow to work as a proper fuse should to blow at the right timeas (unknown?), these are one I might consider next time I need a fuse replacement.

Benefits should always outweigh risks. That's the basic equation for what works. The users decides. The purpose of a fuse is to protect the equipment that uses it. That's the main benefit. WHatever it might or might not do for sound quality should be a secondary consideration IMHO.

"This much of an investment in tweaks is throw away money compared to my system"

I suppose it depends on how valuable the difference is, is there a cheaper way to accomplish the same results, and how much throw away money one has.

"Mapman, obviously Krell is not talking about everyone, but if you are attending Audiogon, you can afford the fuses and chips."

Maybe, but I really prefer fish and chips! :)

Using gold in a fuse sounds like a reasonable thing to do technically if there is a market for it.

I think gold is a good conductor compared to other metals that might be used. Silver is even better I believe.

Most importantly, for use in a fuse, I think it has a relatively low melting point as well compared to other metals. That would make it viable for fuse use.

Not sure if better than alloys used specifically in fuses or not. Definitely expensive! But gold does have more marketing appeal than alloys, so it might be reasonable to use it if there is a market willing to pay. Who knows, it probably has as good a chance of sounding better to someone as anything.

Mental sounds sane.... :^)

Hopefully, people listen to AL in that that is really the thing that "matters" most with fuses.

How different ones in good operating condition sound is a distant second IMHO. Lots of other ways to tweak ones system without putting it at risk IMHO.

Tbg,

In general, I do not advocate people open up their expensive gear and make a tweak in the interest of better sound unless they really know what they are doing. Accidents happen, and there are many other much less risky ways to tweak for better sound. In some cases, vendors might even void a warranty if the device is opened up by anyone not authorized.

For someone who truly knows what they are doing, more power to 'ya!

Ask Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson about fuses that matter. :^)