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For some reason Audiogon has recently become more hostile, particularly to any mention of premium audio cable or other tweaks. I thought that went away a couple of years ago when everyone realized good cable helps. It appears it has not.
Perhaps they are not supporting their belief or moved to one of the other two websites that are more focused on high end performance and discussions of same.
I think that Czarivey was refering to the mention of the Electrocompaniet CD player, which if you google it, costs $3500, being matched with a $3500 Aluminata power cord.
I see that the OP clarified that the cd player cost $8k. A $3500 power cord on an $8k cd player still seems a little high to me.
I'm not saying that wires don't matter, I'm just in the Nelson Pass camp on wires. He used to recommend only that the cables not cost more than the amp. That used to be considered audiophile humor, but some may not get the joke these days.
Now, to get back on topic, that is a very funny story and demonstrates why there are so few audiophiles and almost no female audiophiles. We're a rare breed.
Actually that recommendation by Nelson Pass could work. My ARC REF is now $35,000.00 and you could buy good quality cables for that amount, especially used here at Audiogon.
All I know is cables help. Each is entitled to choose the brand and price level that delivers performance for dollar that makes them happy.
Even the least expensive used cables can be a big improvement over blister pack cheap interconnects and AC cables.
"She looks at me with a deadly serious expression and says that she doesn't like the way all these instruments and vocals are coming from all over the place, she likes the music to sound like it's coming from the speakers."
Well in that case, play nothing but early Blue Note stereo recordings for her. Mission accomplished.
Czar, I don't laugh at people who love music that have entry level systems who can't hear any difference in cable (well maybe I do), and I sure as heck don't understand them laughing at guys who can afford the best and are listening to systems that reveal things you haven't heard and don't understand.
Here's a good quote, and it's mine,
"Say what you will about ignorant audiophiles, they sure save a lot of money"
I like that, it's good, huh?
Its very hard and not cheap to get that SOTA system that reveals everything. Size matters in addition to quality. The best will be systems capable of top performance in bigger rooms.
Wires matter too. Those who have tried many at different price points perhaps and settled on what works best for them have done it right. No matter how much it costs. Others should take notice and learn. Once one is educated as to what the best can sound like, there is still a chance you might achieve similar results for yourself, maybe even for a good bit less.
You can't hit the target until you know what it is.
"For some reason Audiogon has recently become more hostile, particularly to any mention of premium audio cable or other tweaks. I thought that went away a couple of years ago when everyone realized good cable helps. "
My guess is a minority in these parts do not believe wires matter.
But since it is hard and not easy to determine what wires work best or offer good value, there will always be skeptics and rightfully so.
Hostility does not help. An open mind does.
I can laugh at anyone. It might be my other passion of loving comedy, satire and grotesque. My heaviest laugh is certainly towards religion of any kind.
Components and wires that worth close to super car or house on the beach also can make me laugh just because of the fact. Wire that worth more than my KTM bike believe me also does.
Besides audio I've mentioned I laugh at health, veterinary, prescription and food industries because they have almost the same pattern with audio, that is mostly full of crap and brainwash.
So images were behind the back wall, in your face, two or three feet beyond side walls.
This audiophile statement always cracks me up.
I have found that 9 times out of 10, this is really your wife in the adjoining kitchen screaming at you to hurry up for dinner or else...
A warning that if it gets to the "in your face" part .....its too late..
You're in big doo doo.
What's Best Forum and AVShowrooms Forums. What's Best is Audiogon member Oneobgyn and Peter Breuninger the reviewer runs AVShowrooms Forums.
AVShowrooms states the following: "You have to register before you can post. Please respect the industry expert members. Flaming, trolling, and/or excessive dogma will result in membership removal"
Doug, I guess you have difficulties defining agenda. As foreigner I can understand that. I'm still thinking what I have to take somewhere else... Usually I prefer stickin' it.
...oops forgot to mention that folks who praise dat crazy priced stuff make me laugh too, stuck late model benz that won't crank or beemer especially if lady's late for makeup haha! Jump on my 1989 Chevy van bb or it's yours for $2k just did a toon up!
yup Mapman - speakers have it.
"those look like heating radiators" - Everyone - Quad 57 - after listening - "they don't sound like radiators"
"those look like washing machines" - wife - first time seeing B&W Electrostatic DM70 white continentals.
"wow, look at those huge subs!!! " - my son' teenager friend - re: B&W 801 s3 on Sound Anchor Stands - he had just implemented a three woofer sub system in back of his car.
"so now you are security scanning guests ?" - comments to my wife - waiting for buyer to pick up Black Panel Acoustat Spectra 33 . They were left up against opposite walls in front of the house entry door.
Oh I forgot one.
About 5 Years ago - One guy recently introduced to Audiophilia - being experienced.
"Man, this is better than Sex....."
Mocking people who believe the earth is 6,000 years old, have been a major cause of wars, the spread of diseases and the genocide of indigenous people. Oh wait also don't forget taking the Noah's ark story literally, dening climate change and being involved in the largest cover up of child molestation in recorded history (the list goes on and on) is certainly no laughing matter whats wrong with you czarivey theres no punch line here.
Chrshanl37, the misdeeds of believers or the failings of human nature are not arguments sufficient to establish the truth or falsehood of a paradigm. So, even though I could discuss them, I am not interested in debating your generalizations about wars, spread of disease, and genocide.
Not all people of faith are Young Earth Creationists, who hold that the Earth is between 6-10K years old. I am an Intelligent Design proponent, and my primary concern is that science falsifies Neo-Darwinism. The age of the earth is secondary to what I see as ample scientific evidence that Evolutionary Theory writ large is untenable.
Regarding Noah's ark, I find it interesting that the fossil beds globally are none other than massive water runoff deposits, with millions of creatures buried by the trauma of water death and deposition in sediment. Millions upon millions of them, on every continent. Sea fossils are even found at the tops of the highest mountains in the world. It is a misnomer that Noah had to take two of each species; the biblical term is "kind". He only needed a pair of dog kind, cat kind, etc. and there is enough genetic flexibility to create diversity of species over the ensuing thousands of years.
Climate Change I am on the fence. I see confirming and falsifying data. I do know that it lends itself to political posturing and manipulation.
Regarding child molestation, I agree it's a travesty. IMO, it's caused by aberrant doctrine forcing celibacy on men which goes against the sex drive.
Now, as to mocking people, it would not be hard to find reasons to mock people and groups who hold contrary positions to mine. But, I don't think mocking the best way to engender a better world and understanding. :)
Geoffkait, I find the age of the earth question less perturbing than how people can see intelligent design employed every day of their lives, and in fact work with it in their own life, yet fail to see how we are surrounded by living structures of such complexity it makes what me make look like Tinker Toys, which necessitate design to be made. To such people I day, "Come on!"
IMO, for all the science behind it radiometric dating has some serious problems, including the assumptions about the samples. I have read of lava from eruptions less than 150 years ago dated in the tens of millions of years, and of a fresh killed animal dated at millions.
Such results call into serious question the efficacy of radiometric dating. Often the "wrong" results, those not supporting the reigning long age paradigm are tossed in favor of those which sit well with the theory.
There are always going to be comments about an amount on wire that is more than the component being out of perspective. There is only one perspective here and that is that if a power cord that costs thousands more than the component lets everything the component is capable of be revealed it is not a waste of money.
Say you are comparing a $20k CD player to an $8000 CD player, and say that as is often the case the $8000 one is actually capable of outperforming the much more expensive one. Would it be a fair comparison to use a $1500 cord on the cheaper one and a $3500 one on the expensive one? No, if the expensive cord is better it will give the expensive CD player an unfair advantage. Now if the same cord is used and the cheaper CD is actually better you have an $8k component and a $3500 cord that is a performance bargain compared to the $23k of the one that doesn't sound as good.
Middle of the road excellent equipment paired with extraordinary cable is going to sound better than extraordinary equipment with middle of the road performance cable.