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Front- vs. Down-Firing Subs and Amp Issue

A couple of assertions in the audio world have me perplexed as to how to select a subwoofer for my two-channel system.

Richard Hardesty makes the blanket statement in his Audio Perfectionist Journal that down-firing subs should never be used for high-end two-channel audio. Only front-firing subs are suitable for this application. I see, however, that some of the most-recommended subs on a'gon (Hsu TN series, ACI and REL come to mind) are down-firing (or up-firing in the case of Hsu.) Maybe the answer is that audiophile subs can't be purchased at the price point most mortals can afford, and the lower-priced subs just happen to be down-firing? Oh, Hardesty also says ported subs are not suitable for high-end audio; must go with a sealed box. Interesting.

The second assertion comes from Mike Barnes at nOrh, who says on his website that the plate amps used in 90% of subs today is crap and puts out only a fraction of power that is claimed. The sound that was rattling his windows and creating "earth-shaking bass" was not bass at all- it was distortion. He also states that he began tests in subwoofer development using the popular Peerless 12" woofer, which was literally shredded by a (non-plate) 150-watt amp.

So now I'm confused. Is it possible to buy a high-quality sub for relatively little money? I can't bring myself to spend $3-5k on a pair of speakers only to turn around and spend nearly that much on a sub. Oh, and then I hear that if I want the best possible configuration I need two subs at twice the price, making my subs more expensive than my speakers. Is this just a fact of life that I'll have to come to grips with if I don't want to buy speakers that go down to 20hz?

Thoughts?
aggielaw

Showing 4 responses by sogood51

sogood51
2,157 posts
 
"Richard Hardesty makes the blanket statement in his Audio Perfectionist Journal that down-firing subs should never be used for high-end two-channel audio."

I agree...the rest of your speakers are not down-firing are they? The exception may be subs that are used only for 50hz and below...the lower the better.

"The second assertion comes from Mike Barnes at nOrh, who says on his website that the plate amps used in 90% of subs today is crap and puts out only a fraction of power that is claimed".

True, many are rated even higher than my 150lb. Krell...most are junk, I own passive subs and use good amps with them.

There is a new breed of amps that may change some of this so plate sized amps could be the future?...(ICE based and others) of the so called digital types. (do a search here for more info).

Needing or not needing a sub is a factor of many things...tell us more about your room, needs, and components you will use in your system....music types could also play a factor.

Dave
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Raul said,

"
The task that have a subwoofer is the most difficult area in the home audio frecuency spectrum ( from 80Hz down flat to 16-20Hz ) sound reproduction. So ,you can't expect that that " very hard task " is for a " little money ", at least not for a good quality sound reproduction.
If the task of low/deep bass reproduction were an " easy " one then the subs does not exist because any builder/designer of speakers could incorporate in their full rage speakers and for a low price. If you take a look to the price of full-range speakers ( 20Hz to 25kHz ) you can " see " that everyone had a very very high price. Much of that high price has to be with the quality reproduction of the last two octaves in the music".

Humm, and you think cheap plate amps are best up to this task?.

"I'm in favor, too, of self-powered subwoofers instead the passive ones. The self-powered subwoofers have many advantages against the passive ones."

Not really, unless were talking price and convenience...no advantage in sound quality at all IMO as all the convenience features can be had out-board, and as high, or higher quality to boot.

Some of the new wave of subs hitting the market may change this as that technology filters down into lower price ranges but for now these subs are big $$$ and out of the price range of most IMO.

BTW, I use three subs, one off of my prepro's LFE output and the other two with outboard x-over...works for me.

Dave
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Well, my subs use 15"/12" active along with a 15" passive...I guess that puts them in the vented camp and I don't hear any problems...but, this is what Sean had to say in another post regarding the advantages of a sealed sub:

"The one advantage that vented designs offer is that they will play louder. Since this is not a major concern of yours, you can take major advantage of the improved transient response, increased damping, lack of overhang and ringing, slower resonance, more controlled output at resonance, etc.... of a sealed box. You'll also get less "bloat", which means you probably won't annoy the neighbors as much".

Sounds like sealed may have the upper hand?

Dave
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
"If sealed has the upper hand, why aren't more subs sealed?"

Well, I don't know...what is the ratio between the two types? Also, when he says ported will play louder...I'm wondering if he means (louder with less power needed) and not louder overall.

Dave
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