Dear Onhwy61: +++++ " it's that sealed designs have potentially better..., but in the real world is that potential always met? " +++++
This depend on the design and the execution of that sealed design.
The " sealed design " can't warranty: " per se " that that particular sealed subwoofer is a good performer or that can be better than a vented one.
There are bad sealed subs, as I told you this dependes on the exellence of the builder and the excellence in the execution of that design.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Howard: First than all: congratulations for your North great speakers.
+++++ " Is it possible to buy a high-quality sub for relatively little money? I can't bring myself to spend $3-5k on a pair of speakers only to turn around and spend nearly that much on a sub. " +++++
The task that have a subwoofer is the most difficult area in the home audio frecuency spectrum ( from 80Hz down flat to 16-20Hz ) sound reproduction. So ,you can't expect that that " very hard task " is for a " little money ", at least not for a good quality sound reproduction.
If the task of low/deep bass reproduction were an " easy " one then the subs does not exist because any builder/designer of speakers could incorporate in their full rage speakers and for a low price. If you take a look to the price of full-range speakers ( 20Hz to 25kHz ) you can " see " that everyone had a very very high price. Much of that high price has to be with the quality reproduction of the last two octaves in the music.
Now, yours North speakers deserves something, at least, at the same quality sound reproduction level: not less. Well this is my opinion.
I agree with the people that is in favor of the sealed subs and agree, too, with the people that is in favor of two subwoofers instead only one.
I'm in favor, too, of self-powered subwoofers instead the passive ones. The self-powered subwoofers have many advantages against the passive ones.
Now the issue of down firing against the front ones it is not important in sealed subs.
Now, your main speakers needs a " true stereo " ( a pair of subs )integration subwoofers. The REL ones are not a good option for you: the REL design is for " bass reinforcement " on true full-range speakers or for HT, not for a true stereo configuration with monitors liker yours.
Now, the assumption that the subwoofers objective is to enhance the low bass reproduction is a misunderstood about. The integration on a true stereo fashion of two subwoofers in any system has to be more with obtain not only a better quality low bass reproduction but: better mid bass, better mid range and better high frecuency reproduction.
Please if you have the time read very carefully these links:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&31&4#31
+++++ " 50hz and below...the lower the better. " +++++
+++++ " many are rated even higher than my 150lb. Krell..." +++++
Dave, if you can read those links about.
Btw, of course that many of today subwoofers are rated much higher than your Krell amp, but the task of your Krell is very different that the one of the sub-amp: you can't compare it, the 150lb means nothing in this subject.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Dave: +++++ " Not really, unless were talking price and convenience...no advantage in sound quality at all " +++++
I think that this statement is a misunderstood about the subwoofer subject. This is what I already post on other thread and, by coincidence, what the Audio Perfectionist Journal review about:
+++++ " - Now the low bass frecuencies are handle for a dedicated driver that was build with specifics characteristics for to work in that frecuency range and this low bass driver is matched with an amplifier ( self powered subwoofers ) that was build with specifications that mates excatly what the low bass drivers needs about: frecuency response, output impedance, damping, power, etc..... You can't ask for more!!! " +++++
The concept of passive subwoofers, the use of only one ( mono ) sub and low bass enhanced through a subwoofer is a very " old " concept that already change, for the better, for the new concept: integration of subwoofers in a true stereo way, with all the advantages that these means ( read carefully those links ).
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Tgrisham: +++++ " a subwoofer should be front firing if it is crossed over high enough to localize (60 Hz, 80 Hz, 100 Hz?) and then should be placed in front between the mains.. " +++++
You can't localize where are the subs at a crossover point from 80Hz and down. You can try and you will see that it is almost impossible.
The position of the subs has nothing to do if is front/rear/down firing, the room position is a very complex subject where there are no absolute rules.
You can read the links that I already post in this thread ( the first post ) about the whole subwoofer concept. Maybe these links can help you to obtain a better quality music reproduction from your system.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Tgrisham: I agree with you..
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
You are right Piezo. I agree about two subs instead only one. As a fact we can have less room-problems with two subs against only one.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Matchstikman: I think that the sealed vs vented design is a more important issue and here I think that sealed is the better way to go.
The down vs front subs is more a builder design choose. If the subs are sealed it does not matters the down vs front firing debate.
Now, for any one can choose subwoofers: the best way to do is testing at home because the sub interaction with the room and the main speakers is critical. If we can't do that then we have to go for a confident/experienced subwoofer manufacturer like Velodyne, Aerial, Rel, etc...
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Aggielaw: +++++ " Is it important to have sealed towers or monitors as opposed to vented models for accuracy? " +++++
Yes, it is important. But here the manufacturer has a problem: how to build a monitor in a sealed small box with good " bass " down to 30/35Hz?
He can do it with a vented design or he can do it in a sealed design with a bigger box, of course there are other alternatives ( but we are talking here about vented/sealed designs ).
Now, it is possible that every thing the same: the sealed design can be more accurate and " easy " to the room that a vented one.
Now, one issue that is important to these two designs is at what volume/level you want to hear your music. If we are talking of 95 to 105 db SPL then ( probably ) the vented design will be in " problems ", but if we are talking of SPL between 70-85 db we can have the same quality music reproduction from either design.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Matchstikman : The horn subwoofers can be really great, the problem is that for a horn sub can handle the normal sub frecuency range: 100Hz down to 18Hz +.- 3db, it has to be enormous and very hard to match with a normal room size .
The ones that you mentioned there are no true subs: they go down only at 28Hz.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Matchstikman: No, I don't. I don't have the opportunity to heard all the sealed subs that exist out there.
I own Velodyne's ( great performers ), but I hear: Paradigm, Talon, Vandersteen, Bagend, Dali, Sunfire. From these I don't like ( for music two channels aplication ) the Sunfire and the Dali, this one because it is not a true sub: it only goes down ( I think ) 25Hz. I heard others one but I can't remember if there were sealed.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
