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FR66s vs Ikeda IT-407 CR tonearms

Has anyone compared the FR66s to the newer Ikeda IT-407 CR1 tonearm? Any thoughts? In previous years, the Ikeda was available with either copper or silver internal wiring but the recent models don't mention anything about the tonearm wiring. Can anyone comment what type of wiring is used in the latest editions? It would seem intuitive that the later Ikeda IT407 should be a better performer than the FR66s having improved material and bearings over the FR66s but the proof is in the hearing.
ddriveman
ddriveman OP
171 posts
 
Nandric,

Dertonarm told me that he used Ikeda silver for my rewire. I ordered Silver wire for the rewire by new Ikeda company. I could not hear a difference between these 2. But I heard a clear difference between original FR silver wire versus Dertonarm's rewire. I told Dertonarm about this and he told me that the Ikeda Silver wire he used is better than original FR  silver wire.
As I mentioned before, I used the new Ikeda company to rewire my second FR66s because Dertonarm was now busy making tonearms and TTs etc. 
I use the term "new" Ikeda because Mr Ikeda is clearly no longer with the current Ikeda which is making the new Ikeda tonearms and offering service for FR arms.
As a final summary, I just want to share with FR64 and FR66 owners that
1) Rewiring the original FR internal wires brings significant improvements. In my opinion, it's a worthwhile exercise.
2) Dertonarm's rewring service is highly recommended. Alternative is the rewiring by the new Ikeda company which is also highly recommended.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
A bit off topic, but i've managed to get NOS Lustre GST-801 yesterday and this particular sample is much better than my previous used sample (which i sold to a friend). I’m happy because my brand new Lustre GST-801 has properly working magnetic tracking force and anti-skating. Also this NOS Lustre has an original RCA-DIN Silver Wire, Headshell Silver Wire and Internal Silver Wire.

So now i can try your silver bullets too.

My old sample was rewired with discovery copper wire, i will not touch my brand new NOS sample, but i can experiment with external wire by using both (original cheap looking silver or modern high-end copper).

sampsa55
73 posts
 
What are the 345 & 407 made from? The construction overall looks closer to FR64fx & FR66fx than to FR64s & FR66s.

This review says 345 & 407 are made from stainless steel:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-128

This review says they're made from "a combination of aluminum, zinc-bronze, stainless steel and brass":
https://www.dagogo.com/ikeda-sound-labs-it-407cr1-long-tonearm-review/

The anti-skate provision by 345 is an enigma.

It looks identical to the one in FR64fx & FR66fx.

I use the term "new" Ikeda because Mr Ikeda is clearly no longer with the current Ikeda which is making the new Ikeda tonearms and offering service for FR arms.

It’s the same company that Osamu Ikeda founded after Fidelity Research went bust in the 1980s, but I think he himself retired recently and there is a new owner.

He is here said to have been 35 when he started Fidelity Research in 1964. That would make him ~89 this year.
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/30-turntables/165-eat-forte-turntable.html?start=2

He is here interviewed in 2009 saying he is 83 and was still building tonearms and cartridges, like he had been doing for 60 years. That would make him ~92 this year.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/high-end-audio-in-japan-part-five-analog-from-ikeda-sound-lab/ 

He is here in 2012 said to have retired and IT Industries is now managing the company:
https://www.dagogo.com/ikeda-sound-labs-it-407cr1-long-tonearm-review/

nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

@sampsa55 , What an revelation in time of fake news and

propaganda. The facts and only the facts. Facts are true

statements. But I have some addition. As I mentioned in

my post in the context of the German Magazine production

from (hardened) steel become to expensive so the next

series FX is made from aluminum . According to my ''devaluation

theory'' it would make no sense to use steel after FX.

J. Carr explanation was that meanwhile Ikeda understood

resonance problems better and used an, say, mix of different

metals for  345 & 407 as solution. From my ''theory'' it follows

that each next model should be cheaper (made) in order to keep

the business profitable. A kind of ''opposite proof'' is the price

of the new B-60 (grin).

Now the ''curious'' anti-skate provision by 345&407. This is

not even similar with FX kind. The forgotten ''child'' the 245

however has similar to FX anti-skate provision.

Samsa deed not mention any kind of silver. According to

our beloved ddriverman  ''new Ikeda silver'' was better then ''old''

(aka original). But the most of us have at least heard of Kondo

san. According to him the ''matured silver'' (20 years?) was

the best and preferably from Italy. I thought about analogy

with French wine but the Italian is also very good.

sampsa55
73 posts
 

Regarding the material, the Ikeda Labs website is particularly uninformative, only saying "Hybridization of the material of the main part" (Google translation), which seems to indicate that it's not pure stainless steel or aluminum.

http://www.islabs.co.jp/it345cr1.html


Now the ''curious'' anti-skate provision by 345&407. This is

not even similar with FX kind. The forgotten ''child'' the 245

however has similar to FX anti-skate provision.


I have an FR64fx and an FR64s, but have not compared directly with 345 & 407. However, from every picture I can find, the anti-skate in 345 & 407 looks very similar to the FR64fx. Here are pictures of 245 and the anti-skate looks quite different:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/?KW=&G=0302&LNG=E&O=1500&L=50&C=07-30498-90074-00

I can't think of what aging or maturing would do to silver and why it would sound better. There has been improvement in casting, at least for copper, since the introduction of FR64s, so it might well be that current silver is better made. 


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