for those that have small listening rooms,


referring to members that have listening rooms that are a spare bedroom or just a small area in general that isnt open per se. 

with the room being small, do you still get a soundstage or just good to decent imaging ?  


riley804
If the system is up to it, the walls disappear. 
My Small Office

Many years of a decent ’full’ sound without involving imaging.

Last year, I revised my office, the main idea was positioning for excellent imaging. Tweeters at seated ear height, listening/viewing dead center of mains, a single self-powered sub to keep the system from sounding small.

office shown here, pics 12,13,14

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9511

notice: the tweeters are 'out', normally you want them 'in', but surprisingly they sound better this way, probably because it moves the 6-1/2" mid/low driver away from the left wall. Square rooms are difficult, I suspect off-center also helps me.

One mistake I made (luckily didn’t matter, but it could have), was the amp I chose does not have pre-out/main in. Thus the little amp is still needlessly amplifying low bass. Out to a self-powered sub, back in AFTER the sub’s crossover relieves the amp from low bass duty.

Raven’s have built-in crossovers to go out to self-powered sub(s). They say low bass is 65% of the needed power. That is the way to make a low powered amp (less heat in a small room) do a great job.

https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/blackhawk-mk3/


@elliotnewcombjr            

monitors are on stands and not shelves.     

  tube preamp has dual outputs so running 2 subs.              
I get it all including depth but at the cost of many acoustic treatments. Look at my system page.
@slaw 

i just received my GIK room treatments and i see 3 areas where i could add more treatments.

how big is your room ?
Sightly under 9' x 14' with 8' ceilings
Riley, it is all relative as far as imaging is concerned. If the speakers and your head are at the corners of an equilateral triangle the image will appear to be the same size no matter how big or small the triangle. You will have more problems with acoustics and bass due to room size and you will have to use more absorption particularly on the back wall. Another important point is that you never want to be right up against a wall. Your head should be no closed than 3 feet to a wall. Putting regular dynamic speakers up against a wall is not a problem as long as you have adequate absorption around the speaker. You can not do this with dipoles or speakers that are ported in the back. I use these in the 4" version https://www.thefoamfactory.com/acousticfoam/wedgefoam.html
They are very inexpensive and work great. They allow you to experiment freely without wasting a lot of money and put up correctly they look very professional. 
@slaw 

this room is 12 x 12 x 8 ......so our rooms are close in size.
9x13x8 room.  Soundstage well beyond the walls also. 
About same room size - if I close my eyes I would think I am in a concert hall.
yes indeed

small rooms, if properly used, and set up, can sound great

many speakers sound wonderful in semi nearfield or nearfield and the overall experience can be outstanding (including the imaging aspect of it)
As far as imaging goes if your speakers are equidistant and symmetrical you will get it. I have demonstrated this with walkie-talkies, it is that basic. Yes it helps to avoid reflections but all that means is you sit closer in a small room than a big one. Duh. 
I get fine imaging, millercarbon-style in my modest but still far-from-tiny room. Side-to-side. Near-to-far. Certainly not vast in size but nevertheless convincing.
My dedicated listening space is a mere 9’x9’x10’. It was designed to be used as dining area in our townhouse, so it is open to the living room area.  Because of these limitations, I am forced to place my ELAC Adante towers close to the back wall. The Adante is a closed box design which is better than an open rear ported speaker when forced to place near a back wall. My listening setup is a 7.5’ equilateral triangle. I used the Sumiko Master Speaker setup guide I found online to position my speakers. I realize that my setup is far from optimal, but I am pretty happy with the results given it’s limitations. 
My listening room is small and nearly square. I use a setup for my speakers (less than 5 feet), and have no problem at all getting a tall and wide soundstage. 
My room is 11' wide in the front, 20' long on one side, 14' long on the other side which leads to a hallway, and 8' wide in the back. 8' ceiling. Imaging and soundstage are great but took a lot of trial and error to place the speakers and find the best MLP to avoid a pretty severe bass null. Speakers are 4 feet off the front wall and I am basically sitting at the apex of a 7 foot equilateral triangle.
I’m in a small studio and I get a Wide and DEEP soundstage. My room is 15x12-ish. I use a near-field set up with my sofa against the back wall. The bathroom is behind the front wall of the listening area. Fire up some Yuko Mabuchi plays Miles Davis and you’d swear she’s in my shower…some recordings can sound straight up spooky. 😉
My room is 13x11x9 and I have no issues with imaging or soundstage.
My room is 15x10 with fitted wardrobe and angled wall.  It's a bass nightmare.  Made 2 large bass traps (actually one is huge) and use 2 subs for bass control not weight. The trick is close field listening i sit 6 feet away with 3 feet behind the speakers, with 6 feet behind me. This minimises side reflections, rear reflections and allows listening at moderate sound levels. Lots of work but system now sounds the best it ever has regardless of location.
I spent a lot of time getting my 12 x 11 x 9 office to work with 6 computer monitors, 1 very quiet computer (I RDP everything from servers in the garage or the cloud), audio gear, and CD rack. The following set of photos is of an older office setup. I have new gear and changed some things up (not much). I will post some new photos next week once I get my CODA 07x preamp back and have my full system.

Office System | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

At first I used GIK acoustic panels and that made my KEF LS50s work great. Not so good prior to the GIK stuff. The GIK stuff gave me confidence to buy a used Thiel CS3.7 floorstander that everyone says needs a large room. It did not sound so good with just the GIK panels. So I had this guy create Convolution filters (DSP) to run on my ROON Core machine.
https://accuratesound.ca

This is the guy who did my room.
Understanding the State of the Art of Digital Room Correction - Bits and Bytes - Audiophile Style

This filter shapes the sound going into a DAC so that it is optimized for the room acoustics. It only works on my digital streaming. Room measurements need to be done first using a microphone and very heavy duty audio software is needed to create the Convolution files. Once the filter is create by a professional audio engineer the resulting computer files is inserted into the ROON streaming system (JRiver also can do this). The end result is a sound that is perfectly tailored for your room. We found some bad audio nodes when measuring the room and after applying the Convolution filter those bad spots went away. From a listening perspective I had no fatigue with the filters. A lot of issues without the filter.

A few things I did:
1) Remove everything in-between me and the speakers.
2) Move the stereo rack away from the middle of the speakers to the side wall.
3) Do not put a TV in between the speakers
4) Adding a bookshelf behind the speakers with my think technical books seemed to help
5) I thought I had tamed the first reflection well. However, the Convolution filter was fixing some issues that I had the ability to fix manually. So I realized that by adding an acoustic panel in front of my CD rack would also reduced reflections.

A few days ago I was getting some fatigue (without the Convolution filter). The only thing that I thought could be a weakness was the placement of my 65 lb Sony SCD-1 SACD player that was sort of close to the left speaker. I did a huge rearrange and moved that SACD player even further away from the speaker.

Now even without the Convolution filter I can listen to almost excellent sound WITHOUT any fatigue. The cleaning up of the first reflection spots really made a huge difference. I do believe my Convolution filter is no longer valid because I have changed the audio acoustics in my room with the panel placement in front of the CD rack and the movement of my SACD player. So I need to measure again and have new filters created for me.

However, I no longer use the Convolution filter because I seemed to have solved all the acoustic problems with the physical GIK acoustic panels.
yzsanta -- very nice room! Looks like you enjoy beautiful sound.
12x10x9-12' room, Klipsch Forte IV in asymmetrical near-field arrangement, framed art on all walls, large L-shaped desk taking up much of the room (with large media cabinets/shelves throughout the room. Large leather couch opposite the speakers provides the seating area.  Tall and deep soundstage.
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@yyzsantabarbara 

Have you considered or tried room correction; Dirac, Room Perfect, etc?
I have a fairly small room at 10x15. My system is against the 10 foot wall and I have a rug on the wood floor. My other hobby is photography and I have several large canvas prints for wall treatments. Seems to work well. FWIW
if you can, try things at 45 degrees. will eliminate any standing waves. I have a room that has 8' ceilings, about 14' x 12'
@ataraxia What I described as CONVOLUTION filters is the same thing as Room Correction (or DSP).

In fact, I investigated the following:

- Linn SPACE OPTIMIZATION (heard the unit but it had no analog)
- Lyndorf ROOM PERFECT (the less powerful model, did not like the amp section)
- Anthem STR (just read reviews)
- DIRAC with some DACs

Some of these things allow analog gear to be adjusted for the room. My Convolution stuff is only digital (unless you do a A2D conversion somewhere).

I went with the computer software base approach because the software that was used for my stuff is way more powerful than the algorithms stuffed into some audio hardware. The link I posted above is a long video but if DSP is something you are interested in Mitch Barnett is a guy to follow.

Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP , Barnett, Mitch - Amazon.com

My two channel audio system is located in my home office room which measures 12'x13'x8'. The listening position is 6' to 7' away from the speakers, so I suppose that makes it semi-nearfield or mid-field. I did not want to get into any digital room correction or make things more crowded (or complex) by employing subs.

My analog front end consists of a Garrard 301 'table with a 12" Ortofon-based tonearm carrying either an SPU #1S or a Zu DL-103 MKII Grade2 cartridge in an Fidelity Research headshell feeding into either a Cinemag Sky 40 SUT (for the SPU) or an Auditorium 23 SUT (for the 103), which in turn feeds an EAR 834P phono stage. Power is provided by a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum integrated amp w/KT120 output tubes. 

I mostly listen to Classic Rock and often prefer to listen at medium to loud levels. That is where the dilemma started. I tried a few highly rated stand mounted speakers designed and made in the British tradition (if you know what I mean) but I found them lacking in both bass response and dynamic range. All were fine speakers but they just didn't suit my listening preferences. I tried a pair of tall two-way floor standers with 8" woofers for a couple of years, but ultimately they lacked the "punch" that I required.

Ok, so i needed to go to larger speakers but ones that were suited to my limited room size along with my musical tastes. The short list consisted of:
Wharfedale Linton stand mounted speakers.
KLH Model Fives (the new ones).
JBL Classic L100's
JBL 4312G's

The Linton's sounded very nice, but ultimetely lacked the bass depth and dynamic punch that I wanted.
The KLH Model Fives were not available (at that time) either for audition at any B&M retailer or for sale on the 'net, so they were a no-go too.
I liked the JBL Classic L100, but I considered it overpriced for what it was, so the winner is ...........
..........the JBL 4312G Control Monitor, which is designed to be used in nearfield-style listening, is very, very close to the Classic L100 in sound and in makeup, but is on sale for $1750/pair. They've got the rock n roll punch and slam that I need, yet sound great at lower volume levels when that's needed.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I thought you needed to hear it ;-)
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@yyzsantabarbara 

Thanks for your experience and link. 

Yes I am interested in upgrading my 2 channel amplification and room correction.

I've been using my Yamaha A2080 AVR with YPAO/RSC and IMO it is very good, but have the upgrade itch for better electronics.

This upgrade will be used with my KEF R3's and or LS50 Meta's plus Ryhtmik F12SE sub.
I also have found the full range speaker a better overall solution than the monitor and sub. I never really thought of the reasons why. The info posted above makes a lot of sense as to what I am hearing.
live in 14'-wide tin can, total listening space is about 25 feet long or so, very approximate, the space is bisected depth-wise by a wide bar about 4' tall which results in a main front-half listening space of about 13' length. a pair of thiel cs.5s is in front [3' from back/side wall] and a pair of mirage omni 50s at the high-side-rear plus some old sony compact bookshelves in the very high-side rear driven by ambience processor/amp utilizing "difference" stereo signal, l-r and r-l, no delay. speakers assisted by very efficient NHT sub. i don't have a lot of palpable depth, just a hint of it, more to the sides and rear- but the sound is enveloping on any good stereo recording, with no "holes" in any direction. somehow i have height information also. it gives me more than a hint of "you are there" sensation, just enough for me to say, "i can live with this."