Food or beryllium tweeters for my DeCapo's

LOL, now Shakey, how many speakers have you gone through in the last 5 years? Great moniker btw, enjoy your new speakers!

Hi Tubeears, I'm with you LOL. I think the speakers are revelatory, at least the two times I've heard them so far. Here's the tell, they just draw me into the music and their possible warts and shortcomings hides in the shadows, at least for now. Will the dream sustain? Tried and true references will determine their true mettle when I get them into the room for a serious listen next week, a highly anticipated event. I heard them again last week at an audio club meeting with a different amp but essentially same system with the same result, music magic! In the meantime I have been playing around with cables in my long term system after a long hiatus from the cable game, another revelation. This time I am taking a system approach with the cabling that has proven another game changer in my current set-up. Very nice indeed! As you describe, cavernous soundstage, an overall improved coherence and weight that made me wonder how far we explore the options in a given system before, boredom or giving up motivates us to change but often not for the better.

I decided to call Tash back up and have another discussion about one of his favorite subjects and my latest obsession, the DeCapos. We discussed my amp, a Berning zh270, which sounded stellar with this speaker first time around, the room, set-up etc. I enjoy talking to Tash, a music lover of the first order. He also explained some of the technical reasons why so many really enjoy this speaker along with some of the set-up results even in large spaces with the DeCapo. I love large scale symphonic and choral music and Rock along with all types of small scale music and doubt whether an SET would prove viable long term, or so I assume. There are seemingly so many options with this design.

Roxy54, you are not alone. At the meeting last week there were at least 3 listeners that liked another well known single driver speaker w/o crossover over the Decapos. As to why you might hate them I can only guess one of two possible reasons, you like a more laid back presentation or you didn't hear them set-up properly maybe? Since you owned them I can only guess their presentation doesn't hold an appeal. I personally like a lively and immediate presentation. I suspect it would take time and plenty of experimentation to realize their best. But then again their best will probably never be enough for some tastes.

Oh I don't know Jafant, entertaining is more like it to me. There are enough very serious people on this site that when a true original displays a witty, amusing style it would be viewed as silly. Smile and have a nice day!

Tubeeears, thanks for the update and keep them coming. I won't be able to discern the changes you've realized as I'm auditioning the latest including the Nextel coating BUT I have great expectations as my all tube system is really geared for a higher efficiency speaker with a benign impedance. Yeah, a piece of the Ferrari pie is what I heard in a reasonable but, relative to mine, moderate system. It WILL prove interesting to me how the DeCapo will fare and compare with my current reference in a system built around them. I have been surprised before having one expection and getting an unexpected result.

Hi Tubeears I'm currently using all 600 sei Stereovox cabling and speaker cables with various power cords. This has been a constant for about 6 years after going through many rounds with different cables, these were the best until recently. A friend insisted adamantly I had to hear a set of cables he recently purchased to see if it might realize the same result in my system as his. He has watched mine evolve over the years so is quite familiar with it. In any case there was a notable improvement to a point I never would have believed but ONLY when used as a system including the power cords and a power strip with noise suppression.

Believe me Tony, I'm not just influenced by what you are saying but what I HEARD with these speakers, I really connected and hear much potential. In that way, regardless of their price, I feel them special, worth spending some time with to see. I will be getting the speakers at the end of the week and I think my audio bud is almost as excited as I am. He's going with me to pick them up. My big concern is whether they have enough foundation in the lower registers compared to my 12 year Merlin VSM-M which with a custom David Berning tube BAM is fast, articulate and deep, amazing what a 6.5" driver is capable of with that unit and the amp, where's the sub indeed! Will the DeCapos have enough weight or is it important enough? The issue will come down to whether to ship my speakers back for the latest upgrades which I'm not excited about, shipping cost you know, keep on looking or if the DeCapos are the ticket. I'm very calculating about audio expenditures these days. I'll have 3 weeks to decide but should know well before that. You're right, these speakers are better than they ought to be for the price and well beyond in my experience. I'm not looking for the best since it just doesn't exist as you seem to realize. Long term musical engagement without boredom or distraction is and always has been the end game. It's in the details.

I thought you were joking about Alvin and the Chipmunks, you ARE full of suprises! I think my Mother tossed my old "Alvin and the Chipmunk" albums when I left for school and were among the ones I left behind, I'll have to revisit them :)

Cheers

Rebbie, I'll keep you posted after I get a handle of these DeCapos in room enough to convey the differences. Well there are obvious differences from the get go but these speakers are REALLY fussy with set-up as I'm discovering and I have to get this worked out first. Not plug and play but the main thing that really jumped out at me, which coincides with what I heard first time is the natural tonality and texture of instruments and voices, a first rate midrange that is just stunning with well recorded material.

Tubeears what's coming next? If it turns out I can't let go of these I may just go simpler like you. Love the idea of an integrated solution what with the separate power supply for the pre-amp and digital, too much stuff you know. I have been seriously considering building one component rack and clearing the clutter up a bit, too many tubes!

Hi Tubeears, thank you for sharing your joys and triumph, you are a true inspiration and beacon of hope to all that are dealing with adversity, particularly cancer. I have a few friends going through what you have, it is not an easy journey for them or their family. I wish you all the best.

Tubeears has summed things up very well and certainly in a more entertaining manner than I ever could so no need to repeat what he said but AGAIN the one aspect of these speakers that I would like to really get across to those that might be reading this thread with some interest. Yes they image well, good soundstaging front to back etc. dynamics in my space, MUCH better than the dealers' so that was a welcome suprise. Where they grabbed my attention first time and still is the natural tonality and ability to resolve the complex harmonics and nuance of voice and instruments to make it more real, MUSICALITY. They dig deeper into the performance. There is just a rightness that can't be denied regardless of their shortcomings which are getting harder to recognize, oh yeah, they're bookshelfs. While large scale is good it is obvious that a larger speaker is going to be more satisfying especially during very dynamic passages. This is where the larger Reference 3a models might be a bit more convincing but in EVERY other area that is important the DeCapos are just superb and they aren't even broken in and the wire isn't even necessarily ideally suited so there is much to be explored. They are just wonderful speakers and I'm enjoying every moment I spend with them. I REALLY hear you now Tony, enjoy your DeCapos!

I was just listening to some Monk last night, "The London Sessions Vol. 1, 24 bit remastered. Just wanted to share how very special and engaging it was, a favorite solo piano recording that revealed his artistry in such a deep way. It just keeps happening, this engagement, the "it" factor, I sit down and listen and can't stop!

The one statement from Art Dudley's Stereophile review of this speaker 10 years ago that sums things up so eloquently is "The Ref 3A Decapo is as memorable as your favorite song", indeed it is!

"There is nothing about the company and products that I don't like... Except for the looks of the Nextel."

Hey get this Tubeears, my wife likes them! I never would have guessed that one right. OK I'm not saying she is in "love" with them but at least they aren't objectionable. So that is out of the way. btw, they really aren't so bad once in the room. Actually it doesn't really jump out at you EXCEPT for the white dispersion ring in the center of the main driver. She doesn't even mind that. Was I surprised.

I am in the process of testing a cable system including speaker wires, ics, power cords and conditioner, same set-up as with the Merlins, stay tuned for more coverage on this breaking development.

On a further note to other Reference 3a owners without the latest upgrades. I suspect the improvements in resolution are not small with the new BE tweeter, it is simply amazing what I am hearing with familiar recordings, I mean jawdropping amazing, the musical detail these speakers extract from the recording. My cavaets regarding large scale music are receding as they continue to break-in and the sound just gets larger and more convincing.

Hi Tubeears
In keeping with the spirit of this thread and to keep it alive I wanted to add my take on the cable changes with the Decapos. Yesterday my friend brought over his cables. When he first brought them over to hear with the Merlins, I had my doubts that there could be too much improvement over what I had. He insisted I would hear an improvement. He isn't one to go gaga over everything he hears and I DO trust his ears. He insisted and I agreed. After the first time I wasn’t too sure I believed what I heard, so profound was the difference. So we did it again with the same result. Ever the skeptic I was convinced it was real enough to be able to discern the differences in a blind test when listening to the cabling as part of a system.
Included were 3 power cords, to the amp, pre-amp and my Modwright Oppo 95. 1 IC, from source to pre-amp, speaker cables, and a power strip. The IC from the pre to the power amp since I've put the DeCapos in the system is Coincident. As mentioned in a previous post the cabling was replaced my Stereovox 600 sei ics and Studio copper speaker cables. I also have several different power cords that I choose for my system back when I was going through the cable swapping game. The cabling has remained as is since about 2007, no changes. I’ve been happy with the results and I'm not one to continue driving myself nuts with finding the "ultimate" cable. What I have works quite satisfactorily with excellent transparency and no glaring issues. Being the obsessive compulsive lot we are, we all know there’s something better but how far to go in finding it?
Not to get into too many details of the process as it was performed over several hours and with the changes I am hearing in the speakers from day to day resulting IME from the drivers settling in, it can be daunting trying to figure out what is going on REALLY. To cut to the chase first the speaker cables. I didn't notice anything substantive. If you THINK you hear something it just doesn't count. Next we put in the IC from the source to the Pre-amp. At this point we both heard the effect that was realized in the Merlins, a greater sense of coherence and clarity, a bit of the richness from the Stereovox was removed but replaced by a greater sense of the instruments and vocals in front of you, more real. Hard to explain this but I can only attribute it to some type of timing phenomenon, who knows what is REALLY going on with cabling you can only believe what your ears tell you. Next we hooked up all the power cables excepting for the digital into the power strip. I didn't want to replace that just yet. I am using a JPS digital power cord that I have been extremely pleased with. I still remember the first day that I got that cable and the improvement it made. All devices are connected to two dedicated 20 amp circuits with cryoed hospital grade receptacles.
When all was in place, particularly with the last change including the power strip it became completely apparent that what we had heard with the Merlins carried over to the DeCapos. The sound just got larger and more natural. The bass went off the charts. Honestly at the dealer there was nothing I heard that would lead me to believe that these speakers were capable of projecting such dynamic drive and energy. The images became larger, on some recordings seemingly as large as life. Reference music during the process includes Reference Recording of Miles Davis’s "All Blues" a quartet recording with Mike Garson on piano. Bach's "Little Fugue in G Minor" on Telarc with Erich Kunzel and the Cincinnati Pops. Seal’s "People Asking Why" and Evgeny Kissin J.S. Bach's Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C.
What was focused on in the Bach "Little Fugue.." is the opening oboe with the bassoon coming in. This is very delicate and demonstrated with either cabling the amazing ability of the DeCapos to reproduce the correct timbre of these instruments so correctly, beyond what I consider typical for most box speakers. It is an example of why they grabbed my attention initially, the believability factor. The differences in the cabling were a greater sense of what you are hearing is in front of you and not coming from a box, not unlike Quads if not quite as believable either but pretty darn amazing and very close. This is the coherence part. How does a cable ADD coherence. I don’t think it does. What I believe is it subtracts what is heard from the Stereovox, the bit of richness. It is difficult to put into words but it is apparent. And so it went . Most notable on the Kissin recording was the decay of the harmonics. and how this was even FURTHER refined and realistic, a deeper view into the performance. I am a huge fan of great pianists whether in the jazz or classical genre so this is just a really big deal to me to hear these artists perform in your living space that almost transcends the recording. I was again so amazed at what I was hearing. I have a 6’ Chickering Grand adjacent to the listening space and know how it projects in my space. To hear one so gifted play seemingly in front of me in my 20’X18’ room was itself a gift.
The second set of cables just made everything more focused and right. The power cables seemingly increased the size of everything, more vivid and dynamic. On the Seal the sound almost pressured the room. The bass was very convincing, never boomy but clearly defined with all the fundamentals AND overtones resolved. This is due in no small part to the Berning amp which is dc coupled and is as good as anything I’ve ever heard in controlling bass and going low. I’ve owned it for 11 years and with an ideal load it is about as clear and transparent as anything I’ve ever heard. The Berning showed me the true mettle of these speakers and conversely the speakers did the same with the amp. Nothing more ideal than a mid/bass driver with no crossover coupled with an OTL type amp operating at almost zero feedback, and 70 watts of power, about ideal. When I first hooked up the speakers I got some serious boom, this with the front baffle 36” from the wall. I don’t know why here, certainly not at the dealers. It was quickly remedied by placing 2 home brewed tube traps behind each of the speakers.
Actually after reading the above it sounds like a review for the unnamed cables. I have left them unnamed because the focus of this thread is the DeCapo, BE tweeters or food. This is a concurrence of what Tubeears is hearing. To me the hobby isn’t about changing out gear to hear something different. I love to hear different systems but would much rather do that and come home to something where I can kick back and really enjoy the music, being engaged without that constant desire to chase what’s missing. These speakers first of all produce music, the timbre, balance and believability are all there. What I don’t think I’ve found out is how much there is there, how deep does this go? What I am left with is an unexpected result alright, but in a way I never imagined. Thanks Tony for your kind words. I am just in awe of how superb and capable these speakers are. Their price is a bargain but is partly understandable because of the simplicity of the design, a simple capacitor, no complex crossover, a great mid/bass driver and those BE tweeters all so well integrated, coherent and seamless. I wonder what the Nextel coating and acoustic lens have a hand in what I’m hearing?

Oh the Montanas, yes I know a few that have them. One set-up isn't so bad and he's had them for years with ARC gear. I couldn't tell you the model number. Certainly not my cup of tea for most music but he is primarily a rocker listens to quite a bit of jazz and some classical, it works for him just fine. I heard a pair of the big KAS many years back at a dealers. He just loved them, their dynamic capability you know. I just didn't get it and couldn't wait for it to end and besides the things were so big they reminded me of two large coffins. Another guy whose large Montana system I only heard once in his huge listening room was all tweaked out with thick slabs of maple under all components, all the cabling with risers keeping them from touching the ground. To me all the tweaking did was highlight all the issues I had with his system. We listened to a lot of old rock and roll that night including Ted Nugent, the Stones etc. and I throughly enjoyed it. But THEN we put on one of my favorite piano recordings of Earl "Fatha" Hines and immediately realized I never knew a piano could sound like that, very interesting. We talked later and I told him how much I enjoyed the evening, which I really did it was a lot of fun listening to rock and roll with the guys. My only regret is I wished I had brought some of my favorite rock recordings. I mentioned I didn't realize he was such a rock fan. He said he wasn't really but was more into light jazz and female vocalists. Now that was a tough one to figure out. Those big Montana's sure could boogie but for female vocals and jazz? As I always say, to each his own. Audiophiles are a real diverse lot but one thing most are not lacking is passion and opinion. I personally find most multi-driver system problematic with a few exceptions. The coherence is generally blown and you end up listening to a speaker instead of music. The older I get the more apparent it becomes.

Now back to the DeCapos. I think the only thing left for me to do is find the right cables. I may have found them after that last session. They don't cost an arm and a leg and they just sound right when used together. The problem is they look like a bad joke, something Rube Goldberg threw together in an afternoon with the ground wires separate from the helix solid cores wrapped something that seems like mylar. The ICs are app. half inch strips of very thin copper wrapped in the mylar type material with unruly ground wires outside the mylar with VERY minimalist connectors that attached to the components rather loosely, not snug like you would expect. The power cords have round plugs that look like they were procured from an electric supply house that went out of business 80 years ago. Remember the old toastmaster toaster with the cloth cord with the wire wrapped in asbestos inside? Well those plugs would be on the end of that cord. I really haven't seen anything like that for years. The power strip looks like the economy model at Wal-mart wired the same as the power cords sitting on a beautiful 6" slab of solid maple. I would hope that it is at least 12 guage, fires you know. I guess I've given it away now. Totally minimilist Tubeers, no fancy leather or solid dovetailed wood cases with thick felt lining with the brand name printed on fancy silk. In any case, before going that route I am going to reconfigure my system, build a new wood equipment rack so if I do decide on these cables, they can't be seen. Besides, too much clutter in the room, its time for a makeover and my wife agrees.

Talk about reviewers for Stereophile. There was one guy back in the late 80's early 90's that did a review of the B&W 800, a really large speaker in his 10X12 listening room or something that size, what was Atkinson thinking? I have to find it. I believe it is pre '94 before they changed from digest size to magazine and I still have those going back to the mid 80's. Lewis Lipwich or something like that, played Contrabasoon for the National Symphony. That's why you have to be careful in trusting what a musician says. They REALLY do listen and hear things differently.

So far as reviewers I really get a kick out of Bob Harley, always waxing on about the latest and greatest with better seemingly commensurate to more expensive, welcome to Texas! I always feel it incumbent on a reviewer to review different gear across a broad spectrum of prices to keep everything in better perspective. Not everyone can afford a 185K speaker system, not that I don't enjoy reading about them, I do as I find it quite entertaining. How can you take something so expensive seriously UNLESS you can easily afford it?

There are a few large systems I've heard that were quite memorable, like the Infinity Reference V system with completely rebuilt Emitt drivers and woofers, over 500 hours worth of work by a gentleman named Bill Legal in Pennsylvania. His company is Miller Sound named after his father in law I believe and goes way back to the 1930's. I spent an afternoon with Bill in his listening room with those glorious speakers listening to a wide range of music, it was great. There was one recording he played for me that I hadn't heard since I was a kid, Buddy Holly's studio recording of "True Love Ways", my skin rolled over in goosebumps, not just the fact that he was "truly" in the room but the nostalgia and memories of the past. This is what its all about, sharing music and enjoyment, I'll never forget it. Bill and his wife were two of the most wonderful people I've come across in this hobby.

My apologies Lewis, I found the review. The room size for the review of this almost 6' tall speaker was 15'4"W by 16'3"L by 6'10"H, a perfect transducer choice for such a cavernous space, what was I thinking?

Thanks for the link Mapman. As far as that Buddy Holly tune goes, I bought a recording with it after that listen and often play it, a really great recording it is. I believe it was made the September before the plane crash, his last studio recording. The thing is that no matter how many times I listen to that song, it will never be recaptured the way it was at Bill's place that day. I suppose we all have our special musical memories, I have a ton of them but I'm getting off track here, back to the DeCapos!

Mapman I know a guy that has a pair of the OHM Welsh I believe. He had them in a small cottage house when he and his wife moved from Pennsylvania to Daytona Beach. Too small a space to set them up in that place but he moved to a larger house several months back but a few hours away. His new space is considerably larger. I am going to try to encourage him to set them up so myself and another audio friend can pay him a visit. Thanks for reminding me. I just love the MBLs, great for orchestral music in particular. I'd bet those OHMs sound special as well.

I believe these are older model Ohms probably from the early to mid 80's I'm sure if not older. The box is quite large.

Rebbi that is precisely it, what you say. While the resolution of this speaker is off the charts it isn't the "oh, I never heard or noticed THAT before". That isn't it at all. It is the musical resolution, the connection over any sound. I REALLY believe, at least to me, that it has to do with the near ideal tonality along with the ability to clearly define instruments and vocalists in a soundfield, the better the recording and gear preceding of course the more real it sounds but it isn't limited by the quality of the recordings. There is just this inherent, intrinsic musicality. On a technical note I suspect the real key to the success of this particular design, predating the DeCapo and going back to the MM most likely has to do with the proprietary carbon bass/mid driver being directly connected to the signal being fed without going through any crossover circuit, the DNA of what we hear with this design. I'll bet you could hook up a mediocre receiver to this speaker and still hear this intrinsic "rightness".

I don't believe for a second natural tonality, the real pitch and timbre of voice and instruments can be manipulated upstream. It has to be inherent in a fundamental way that some speakers have and some never will regardless of enclosure, crossovers etc. I find this quality very rare in most of the transducers I've listened to although they may excell in many if not virtually all ways that can initially make them appealing. This speaker doesn't do "audiophile tricks" and technically it might not be impressive to the technically minded observer or measurer but one thing undeniable to me, these gems play back music in a most convincing manner.

I think Truemaineiac is right Shakey. Hey that's not SO bad, I'm sure there are many that have it worse than that. You might want to keep track of the frequency of your changes going forward though, it seems that your heart for the best of the lot didn't beat the average of the rest, you philanderer you! I'm still in the courtin stage, trying to decide between the charismatic beautie or her more suave fleshier big sister who I'm going to do some courtin with tomorrow.

Thanks for the update on cabling Tubeears. I'm having my buddy drop by the Rube Goldberg jobs sometime next week, my 4th listen, it must mean something. His system just sounds about as good as I've ever heard it and get this, he changed electronics from vintage ARC gear to a Creek Integrated, you wouldn't believe it and neither would I until you heard it. He attributes much of what he hears to these cables and cords, who am I to argue, I hear it myself and I need to hear them "One More Time".