The answer to your question is... it depends. It depends on what you set the crossover of your speakers. If you're crossing over at 60-80 range, full range may be a total waste unless you are totally concerned with absolute timbre matching across all speakers. The general, conventional wisdom is that it is a waste to go "full range". However, the appropriate thing if you have room and $$ is to get the same exact speaker for all your speakers. So, like I said, it depends on your goals and why you are asking. Personally, I'd put the money to full range surrounds and rears into the best possible fronts that I could afford and then get timbre matched bookshelf surrounds with a sub. I do both 2-channel, multichannel music, and also movies. So I want a setup that can appropriately accommodate all with minimal trade offs.
Internetmin... what cross over would you recommend? i am speaking for my fronts.... i was told to cross over at 80 so the rest goes to the sub.... so am i missing some good sounds from my fronts as well?
Yes, a full range signal goes to the surround speakers. I am using PSB Image 5T towers for my surrounds, and running the surrounds full range. I really love hearing deep bass sounds coming from them in movies. There are a lot of scenes in which there is noticeable deep bass coming from behind my seating position on the sofa.
Now, that being said, since these speakers really start dropping off in their output around 80hz, you will achieve more overall deep bass and rumble by crossing them over at 60 to 80hz to a subwoofer. It just depends on what you like. Personally, I don't care for stomach churning deep bass levels, so that is why I am running them full range.
Of course, using towers allows you to experiment a bit and find out how you like it, while if you go with monitors, you will definitely not be running them full range and will probably cross them over at 80hz.
"what cross over would you recommend? i am speaking for my fronts.... i was told to cross over at 80 so the rest goes to the sub.... so am i missing some good sounds from my fronts as well?"
What are your front speakers? How deep do they go? 80 hz is the standard crossover. Unless you have really big speakers, you might want to cross them over at 60hz or 80hz. My fronts will play down to 22hz(in the right room), but not at any level close to the sound pressure level you can get out of a sub. I am not now using a sub, but when I was, I was crossing my fronts over at 60 or 40hz.
Sorry i did jot put it.... b&w 804S.... front and looking at getting the same for the rear... or the older 804N... they say they go 38Hz - 22khz
Currently using cd1 book shelf for the rear
OK, those 804S are rated -3db at 38hz, but they are likely only flat down to 55hz or so. So, I would definitely cross them over to sub at 60 or 80hz.
If you have a receiver or preamp with room correction then start with that. I've been using Anthem gear for years. The ARC system crossed over my fronts at 60 and my surrounds at 110hz. That has to do more with the room response with the speakers than anything. So, 80 is a starting point but if you don't have room correction then you need to listen to music at different crossovers and see which sounds better. That is for the fronts. For the rears, 80 is usually excellent. Remember too that if you are listening to movies you want to send the LFE signal to the sub to allow your amp to breathe and better control your speakers above crossover. I wish I could tell you that X frequency is the magic dial but it's not that simple. If you are unsure or starting out then dial in your system at 80 and listen for a month and then you can start playing. I personally don't feel that full range all around offers significant value unless your room is really huge (35x25 and larger) and therefore you need to move more air in the room.
Mtrot is right with one addition, the crossover depends most on where your sub and fronts blend best. With music you generally want the speakers to run as full range as possible an with movies you want to supplement 80hz and below or 60hz and below with a sub. My Anthem allows me to do different crossovers between music ad movies. If your receiver or preamp allows for that ad well then I would start out with 80hz for movies and 60hz for music in your case.
I am running a pioneer elite 92txh... i bring it down to about -8 on the volume and it is way loud...well not so much way loud as the treble is crazy high and listening to movies at a higher level get a little painful to my ears when the highs hit. the receiver early heats up even after 3 hours of lord of the rings... it has the room correction... i use it.
my dedicated room is 25 by 25. concrete block with drywall inside and comercial carpet.
Dam spell correct.. i ment to write my receiver BARELY heats up even after 3 hours of the lord of the rings movie.
Waste of money. You will never get it 'right'. Check out Floyd Toole's book, 'Sound Reproduction'. He will convince you of the folly of your quest.
Buconero117... care to expand on your post?
I found an anthem statement p5 amp and purchased it. It might be a damn shame to use the two channels(amp) just for bookshelf speakers. also i have a few extra speakers and was going to experiment with 7.1 instead of 5.1... which channel should i amp with the anthem? the side two or rear two?
Side channels with the anthem. Rear channels are far less important. The P5 is a very nice amp. I assume you have a better amp for your fronts?
Finally, Star Wars Episode III opening scene is a great test for your surround channels and to make sure everything is working and setup properly.
Better amp for my fronts? i use the p5 for the front three and the two sides.
am i missing something? a better amp? i was under the impression the p5 was a "better" amp
"Better amp for my fronts? i use the p5 for the front three and the two sides.
am i missing something? a better amp? i was under the impression the p5 was a "better" amp"
It's okay. Your Anthem P5 is a wonderful amp so don't worry yourself. Many on this forum(me included) and other music lovers elsewhere, prefer to use a "better" stereo amp for the mains for the times when they want "maximum" sound quality for 2-channel listening from there HT system. I am sure your P5 will be equal to or even trump some other stereo amps in it's price range.
I as under the impression that after getting to a higher quality amp, the differences between the amps is more a matter how how they make the speaker sound. not so much a "better" amp just more preference on what the listener wants.
Your Anthem Statement P5 is an awesome quality multichannel amplifier that will definitely hold it's own with 2-channel sound quality.
Here is a quote from a review in http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/anthem_statement_p5.htm
"but the P5 -- with its high power output, incredible build quality, and first-rate sound -- is just as deserving. It should be considered one of the very best multichannel amplifiers currently available."
I missed the note where you said you were using it for the fronts too. That's why I found it odd that you were relegating it to a side channel amp. I didn't know if you were using mono blocks, etc.
O...ok... just was surprised about the comment... but that make sense.
Well the one guy said that floor standing speakers are a waste... I don't thin i am going to a couple hundred page book though. any other ideas?
Baranowski, I'm getting the sense that you really want floor standing speakers for surrounds. If I'm getting that sense correctly, then go for it. There's no question that deeper bass will be more uniform in the room, crossover will be far lower, etc. etc. There's a big difference with quality full-range speakers vs. bookshelves in a setup. So I say go for it and see how you like it.
As a side-note, Toole's book is great. If you ever want some geeky reading, that's the book to grab.
Recently.changed my crossover from 80 to 60 watched two movies today and no huge difference. i was hoping the floor standers would bring about a fuller sound. but there are two thoughts on that idea. i might be able to get another set of 804"s" for the sides at a good price. if so it will be worth a try. i would.need to raise them off the floor seeing how only the tweeter and mid would be above my couch and the other speakers would just play sound into the couch that would be blocking them.
If the issue is a "fuller" sound then that is a speaker setup issue and not a crossover issue--especially if you are getting good bass at the primary listening position. Are the distances/delays and volume all calibrated properly and if you have rom correction, are you showing any suckouts?
I run room correction... not sure where i could see "suckouts"
Do you have graphs with your package? Do you have ARC or Audyssey?
Regardless, where is it cutting off your Surrounds for crossover settings?
If you could tell me where i would find that, i will let you know. graphs as far as in the owners manual or when i use the room correction and the receiver makes all the changes and it will have graphs?
If you are using an Anthem with ARC, you'll get all the graphs for every speaker. If you are using Audyssey, you won't and you need to upgrade to the pro version (approx additional $750 if your processor supports it).
What crossover are you seeing for the surrounds? Are you manually overriding it?
My hunch (based on the bits of info here and there) is you have one of two things going on:
1) The crossover is off with your surrounds, giving you a dip or problem with the audio spectrum.
2) The placement of your surrounds is off. That can either be they are too far off-axis from your listening position or that they need to be remeasured for distance, etc. Are you using direct or dipoles? This is important because if you are using direct and your processor is assuming dipoles, you don't get the appropriate delay added to the direct radiating.
Any of that jar an idea or resonate with you?
The elite has advanced mcacc. After the room correction being done, i changed the speakers to the small setting. the speaker distance was all done by the receiver.
i am using direct speakers for my sides. also direct for the two rears. i did not see a setting for dipoles or direct.
I recently changed the crossover from 80 to 60... just to experiment with it... i did not notice much if anything.
maybe it is as good as it gets?
Change the crossover to 110. See how that works. Let the sub do more work. Check with pioneer or the manual on how to setup direct radiating speakers. That may or may not be an issue. Is your speaker setup relative to primary also at the proper angle? Is it between 90-120 degrees or so or is it more?
Ill give it a shot next movie thanks